44sp M396 Night Guard v. M396 Mtn. Lite

Ignore: weight differential, bullet creep, sights style/radius, ability to hold on/follow up, concealability, and the IL.

Sans grips and cylinders, the NG and ML weigh the same, both L frames that look the same size.
ML has 7/8” more barrel.
NG has scandium frame.
Steel NG cylinder adds 3.8 ounces to ML's titanium cylinder. No flame shield on ML, I think SW can add that.

I plan to shoot SAAMI loads for practice, heavy loads only on the trail.

Brian Pearce's 2005 article states the ML can handle the 25k pressure level but does not mention the NG. 18 oz ML., 307 grains out of a 4.5 inch barrel at 1057 fps, (so a little less from the ML 3 3/8 barrel). Can the shorter steel cylinder NG give better performance?

Will ether NG or ML handle a hotter load than the other, on a short term basis? Is the titanium cylinder stronger than the steel cylinder? Or any other reason to favor one over the other?

Thank you for any rational thoughts.

I would not use high pressure loads except for carry when you travel in bear territory. That should be fine. Practice with lower pressure and finish with a high pressure load so you know the recoil. S&Ws are tough but that is how I handle my J-frames and my 325 Airlite and I have never had an issue. Good luck.

I have a Night Guard and I replaced the steel cylinder with a titanium one. But, for weight not strength. While the tensile strength of the best titanium alloys can approach that of best steels, it does not have the fatigue life of steel. But, I doubt you would ever reach it in a cylinder. I am sure S&W tested it repeatedly and fired many test rounds and numerous ones at or above SAAMI Proof test pressures of 22-24,000 psi.

But, I don't think it is a great idea to fire proof loads in these guns. They make a 44 mag steel L frame. They don't make one using scandium alloy and titanium. Might be a reason. Forcing cone maybe?

I have a 696, a 396 and a 325. I see no reason to fire heavy loads in any of them. Not what they are designed for. Not designed to go moose hunting. Even a 44 special at 800 fps will knock a deer down hard at 50 yds if hit right. But, that is still not what they are for.

I know, Grizzly bears while hiking. Way more apt to get struck by lighting while fly fishing. In the event such a rare occurrence the chances you can deploy and fire a handgun before the bear is on top of you are slim. It does happen and if it should and all I have is a normal 44 special so be it. The chances that more power will change the outcome are even slimmer than the chances of it happening. Maybe being able to recover from the recoil a split second faster and deliverer a more rounds will be the deciding factor. Maybe your heavy load will split your forcing cone first shot and tie up your gun. Who knows? In a perfect world I would have a 500S&W with 500 gr slugs and hit the bear right in the brain. NO, perfect worlds during bear attacks.

Guess what, I live where there are bears, I camp, fish and hunt where there are grizzlies and there have been attacks. I carry a gun, sometimes a 44 special, sometimes a 45acp or colt, never my 44 mag or my 500. I also drive on highways with drunks, texters and idiots. I wear a seat belt. I do not have a 6 point roll cage, a helmet and a harness.

Well, everyone carries what they want/need, I don't live in grizzly country, but I do hunt where there are mountain lion and black bear, and I ALWAYS carry a 44mag when in the woods. In the past I've carried my Ruger Alaskan, but lately I've been carrying my Stealth Hunter and may move to my Lew Horton Hunter 2....I have a heavy belt for snubbies and a custom made shoulder/chest rig which makes carrying even a heavy gun a "non issue". When I am "around town" I mostly take either my S&W Backpacker IV, my 24-3 or my Ruger Alaskan all loaded with 44spls. So honestly, I don't think there is a "wrong" answer to your question...I don't think there is a "best" answer either. I carry what I feel like the day I strap on a weapon! So get both!! Then you won't have to worry about it!

I voted “just go with the 329”. Makes a great .44 special and capable of handling full house .44 mags with useful velocity from a 4” bbl. Very portable and easier to shoot than the 396.



I have a 396 Mtn Lite (Ti Cyl, Alum Frame 3 ¼” bbl). I bought it in 2003 for backup when bow hunting elk in Montana. At that time, I called Buffalo Bore and asked if their 255gr/1,000 fps load was OK to use in the 396 – answer was yes.

The factory front sight didn’t work with the 255s. Called S&W – their first response was use a 200gr bullet. I explained my intended use and they sent me a new front sight, indicating it was OK to shoot 250gr bullets (no comment on load level).

With said use/phone conversations in mind, I worked up some loads that were 260 SWCs at an actual chronographed 1,020 fps. More recently, I also chroned 4 rounds of the “Keith Load” 250gr SWC at 1,086 fps from the 3 ¼’ 396 at 5 paces fr muzzle and 72 Deg F. My gun is stocked with the S&W 500 X Frame grips (I was/am more interested in light weight vs bulk). Recoil wise, very few folks will shoot more than one of either from the 396.

In Brian Pearce’s original .44 special article he said the 396/696 were capable of handling loads in the 25,000 PSI category (Keith Load) and that S&W had tested these revolvers to “much higher levels” than anything presented in the article. http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf In a later issue of Handloader magazine (Dec 2014 -- #203) he said that the 396/696 SHOULD BE HELD TO 18,000 psi. This is due to the possibility of barrel shank bulge/split at higher pressures. The cyl/frame is capable of handling higher pressures safely, but the barrel shank is problematic.


I’ve tested the 300gr loads mentioned by Brian Pearce in the ref article – BUT NOT IN THE 396. The gun with the 4.25” barrel tested in the article was a Freedom Arms M97. Very tight revolver which probly gives higher velocity than others. Notice how the velocities from the 4.25” FA97 matched those of the other gun (6.5” S&W M24). From the 396m I suspect you wouldn’t get within 100 fps of the 1,057 fps ref in the article. Ref point, my 5 1/2" FA97 chroned 997 fps with a 300gr SWC (Keith), with the load shown in the article, at 5 feet from the muzzle.


Both the original Handloader magazine (15,000 psi category) and Speer’s current reloading manual shows a load with 250gr CSWCs and Power Pistol within SAAMI pressure specs that should be all the power needed/useable in the 396. Recoil wise it will be more than most want to deal with.


I pretty much agree with everything Steelslaver said above, certainly with respect to technical/physical aspects of subject revolvers. Can’t imagine anyone would shoot these guns enough to compromise the “strength” of either or that one is more capable of handling “hotter” loads . I shot several 329s (titanium cyl) enough to require factory repairs, but never any relating to cylinder strength and yes this includes 300+ bullet loads.


I will offer a bit different personal opinion regarding caliber selection that I feel comfortable with.

I’ve been retired since 2000. My range is close and am lucky enough to shoot 3 or 4 times a week. Additionally, I have spent virtually every day since (until recently) walking my dogs, woods bumming, hunting and fishing. The area I walk in is populated with Bears (both black and grizzly), moose, wolves, mountain lions and various other species). I personally never seen a bear or mountain lion on my outings. I have had several up close and personal encounters with moose however. All of the above have seen by others in the area I frequent and I’ve no doubt walked by them (without being aware of) on more than one occasion.

With all that said, I made a decision early on to be armed at all times. Started out with a 4” S&W 629 Mtn Gun. Later went to a 329 .44 Mag that I carried for the better part of a decade and more recently an L Frame M69 .44 Mag. Probably will never need it and certainly there are circumstances that I might not be able to even get it into action. However it makes me feel better and there have been several times when it was a very real comfort. Just because it hasn’t happened to me (others) or the probability might be low doesn’t mean it can’t happen. I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Sorry, rambled on a bit more than I ment to.

Paul

pretty much what those two said. I do remember the 396 was suppose to be 200grain bullets due to setback. I don't think i would want to put a heavy bullet in one. I also remember from the pearce article him plugging an elk clear through with one of his .44special, 250grain something loads at about 1000fps. I don't live in grizz country, but i do live in bear/lion country. Article in local paper last week about a couple being "surprised" my a mt lion stalking a kid at a local park/lake. It does happen as humanity extends out to were critters with teeth live. And i have had two up close and personal bad breath experiences with black bears. Which led me into big bore revolvers/pistols when i don't have a rifle handy. Which ever one you shoot best, 10mm auto, 44special, magnum, 41magnum, 45colt. Being somewhat of a 41snob, i have been loading 250grain pills in a 41mag revolver to about 1000fps, call it a .410 version of a .429. That is what i carry in areas where tooth things live. I love 44special, but have no desire or need to make a 44magnum out of it. I have a 1900vintage colt bisley in 38wcf that has an inscription on the inside of the grip, killed a grizz two shots sierra madre mts mexico circa 1915. And a 38wcf at that time was not going hper velocity and probably a 180grain pill

i do know i don't like the idea of a flame shield and having to return it to the mother ship after a certain number of rounds fired.