325 PD UPDATE: YOU GUYS WONT BELIVE IT!

The 325 PD has a titanium cylinder (grey), which brings the weight down to about 25 oz. Hence the recoil will be stiff, but probably manageable. Not quite as much fun to shoot as the 325 TR.

I may have a square notch rear blade in my future also. I'm gonna shoot it a little before I make any changes. I definately like the gold bead front sight that will be staying. Maybe a lock delete? Maybe some wood grips? I now do realize I need moon clips for sure so some are on the way. Once again I just have to thank you all for your support, information, tips, help and even the jokes are great! I am not somebody that spends any time on computers with any social media or anything. But this is the greatest site ever!!

Congratulations!

I had one just like that and liked it a lot. Recoil was stiff, a good whack in the hand when it sends that 230gr down range

Yup, great deal- congrats. I love my 625 and would have jumped at that deal and asked forgiveness later from "she who must be obeyed"

Seriously my wife would frown, but wouldn't complain. I am a blessed man for 34+ years

My wife does not condone the buying of many guns. She is wonderful and I have received forgiveness when I have been caught. I try not to buy but the great deals I find cannot be passed up. I must refrain from even going into a gun sales building for at least a month or 2 after this past 5 weeks and 3 guns.

It has been a while since I got a good one that cheap. Good job!

Your 325PD will shoot just fine without moon clips. You'll just need to punch the empties out with a dowel or wooden pencil. [emoji16]

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colt_saa said:

Smith and Wesson revolvers chambered for rimless auto loading cartridges are designed to headspace on the moon clip.

9 times out of 10, a S&W revolver chambered in a rimless cartridge will sufficiently headspace against the cylinder throat and fire.

This is not a design feature of the revolver, it is luck of the draw.

BTW, Congratulations on a smoking deal.

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I don't know about the new stuff, but all of the old 45acp revolvers I own will work without moon clips.These include model 1917's from Colt and S&W, a model 1950 (pre-26), model 1955 (pre-25) and a 625-2. They are all head spaced to work to work that way. Because the cartridge is rimless, the extractor won't work, and the empties have to poked out with pencil or the like. Some the earliest production Colt models we're not head spaced and had to use clips, or the cartridges would slide straight through. These were returned to be altered and reissued. I believe that the head spacing was a S&W innovation, and the government mandated that Colt copy the design feature for their guns. BTW, consider a BMT moon clip tool for loading and unloading the clips. They are the best of the breed and also the most expensive, but you'll forget the cost after you use it.

I'm not sure whether the new .45ACP revolvers are intended to fire without moon clips, but I own two and they do. Even loading them, they feel much different from my 25-2, but they do work. NEVER had one fail to fire.

I agree with sodacan on the BMT moon clip tool. Expensive true but worth it. The TK moon clips might be picky with respect to the brass you use, I know mine (38 special) are.

All of my S&W .45 ACP revolvers have not only worked fine without clips but I have never been able to detect a difference in accuracy when the guns were fired with or without them. Being no great fan of loading and unloading the clips, I usually don't use them when shooting on the indoor range.

Thomas15 said:

I agree with sodacan on the BMT moon clip tool. Expensive true but worth it. The TK moon clips might be picky with respect to the brass you use, I know mine (38 special) are.

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Yes the moon clip tool is an absolute must. It makes the job so much easier. Go to revolversupply.com and pick one up.

There may be people that tell you that you can use your rimless cartridge moon clip gun without moon clips. They will claim that the round will headspace on the shoulder in the chamber, theoretically, they are correct. However, since SAAMI sets the specs for cartridge dimensions, the shoulder is placed at maximum case length depth for a given caliber. My experience has been that most factory ammo or brass, when new, is always considerably less than this dimension - meaning that, in reality, headspacing on that shoulder, by the case mouth, seldom actually occurs.

This is more common with newer .45 ACP guns with SAAMI-spec chambers. While SAAMI has been around since 1926 and the .45 ACP was adopted in its current form in 1911, the SAAMI cartridge dimension drawings weren't done until 1979. So it is quite possible that early .45 ACP revolvers may be more likely to function without clips, with a
higher rate of reliability, than guns made post-1979, as chamber dimensions were at the discretion of the manufacturer.

What does happen is that variances in chamber roundness, smoothness, cleanliness and other variables, will hold some cartridges firmly enough that a firing pin strike will ignite the primers. Others are driven forward in the chamber, which results in a light primer strike and a failure to ignite.

Just as some rounds are held tightly enough for ignition and others are driven forward, some cases may drop out of the cylinder from gravity, while others may be "pluckable" and yet others will have to be poked out using a rod.

You should consider moon clips essential for any revolver that is chambered for a rimless or semi-rimmed round. The other alternative is using the rimmed version of that round, if one exists.

Moon clips are the greatest thing since sliced bread and people's aversion to them is, most likely, founded in falsehoods found on the Internet or from people who either have no personal experience, or just a passing experience with them. In order to fully utilize, and fully enjoy, them requires the right tool(s) to load and unload the clips. The best tool that I've found is the BMT. It both loads and unloads the clips. An alternative
to metal clips and specific load/unload tools are the Rimz polymer moon clips. These are easily loaded and unloaded by hand.

You may balk at the cost of these ancillary devices - but consider what you just spent for the gun - isn't spending that extra little bit to insure full enjoyment from your investment worth it?

Adios,

Pizza Bob

There are some revolvers in semi-rimmed chamberings (current Ruger 9 mms) that will not fire without clips, but as far as I have seen S & W .45 ACPs are always able to do so. Extraction without clips is more difficult .

Seems to me there is a fair amount of confusion out there with this concern of use of moon clips. This gun is my first experience into the world of rimless cartridges. At first just to be safe I am going to use the clips. Being I reload the next logical step will be to purchase 45 acp rimmed brass and just reload cartridges for use with only this gun only. Just because it is possible to do something doesn't necessarily mean it is correct.

Yes, it is best to use the clips. For range use I like the Rimz plastic ones, easy to load and unload, but wouldn't use them for serious social purposes.

Pizza Bob said:

You may balk at the cost of these ancillary devices - but consider what you just spent for the gun - isn't spending that extra little bit to insure full enjoyment from your investment worth it?

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I, too, believe that moon clips are the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I already spent a few bucks for a lifetime supply of moon clips and a first-rate loader. However, I don't always use moon clips at the range because it is usually unnecessary and is always extra work. I have never had a misfire. Note use of the word "never." I think that you know what that means.

I use moon clips when I want speed of loading. With newer revolvers I might consider moon clips a a slight reliability improvement for defensive carry, but I do spin-check them in the revolver for straightness, and I would go for moon clips anyway for reloading advantage.

Your pretending that choosing not to use moon clips is based not wanting to spend money is false. When I don't use them, it's so that I can get MORE enjoyment from my "investment."

I'm sorry if your revolver doesn't work all the time. My revolvers, both classic and modern, work without moon clips. Every time.

The older guns were designed to be used with or without moonclips, period. None of mine have ever failed to fire, not even once, either way. I use the clips from Revolver Supply and they have worked with every gun and many makes of ammunition.

Model520Fan said:

I'm sorry if your revolver doesn't work all the time. My revolvers, both classic and modern, work without moon clips. Every time.

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I have no desire to use my moon clip guns without the clips, since that is not what S&W intended. I also find that I have more time to enjoy my guns at the range when I pre-load the moon clips at home, rather than wasting time picking or poking the empties out of the cylinder.



I'm not saying that you have to use clips - it's your gun, do with it what you will - but for 100% reliability and maximum enjoyment, I prefer to use them as they were designed to be used.

Adios,

Pizza Bob