327 Federal is the best small revolver cartridge for defense??

I am inclined to agree with you in a light J frame 327 being better than a 38 special. The extra round, the lighter bullet giving less felt recoil, yet substantial power are all pluses over a 38 J.

...But, a 327 115 gr bullet traveling at greater velocity as a 110 gr 38 spec +P, has got to be as effective and because it has the same weight and a smaller diameter it would have a better sectional density and should penetrate a bit better. Given this a 6 shot vs a 5 shot J frame of the same power, I'll take the 6 in a small light convenient to carry package.

Since the Fed .327 doesn't have a track record yet, isn't hard to form an opinion? How many gunfights can you document this being used in? Do you remember Super Vel and their light bullet .357 magnums in K framed S&Ws? So, I'll have to wait and see if I concur on this.
Steve

I agree with the OP and the posts above - .327 is a great cartridge, and I'm pretty sure it will eventually prove the .38 SPL obsolete.

Thankfully, I can get .327 ammo locally with no issues, and I've started reloading for it as well. If anything my main complaint is the available self defense ammo isn't as hot as it could be, and you can't even get factory 100gr SD ammo anymore. I plan to work up a 100gr XTP SD load to maximize the round's potential.

That said, it's new so there is very little data to prove that opinion, and .38 will never go away because of its historical significance and close relationship to .357 magnum.

Time will tell...
 
Look at ballistics by the inch and you'll see that in 2" barrels, a Speer Gold Dot 115 327 is faster (1024fps) than a 110 38 Corbon DPX (814) In a 3" its 1316fps vs 963. That's a bunch especially if your running a J frame and add another round. . A 2 1/2" or 3" barrel would be the ticket for this in my opinion.
 
How's this for input: none of those factors mean jack till it has been proven in actual shootings.

I'm pretty sure no one has ever been killed by higher chamber pressure.

Lets see, when did I hear this before about the .38/.357 being made obsolete? Oh, yeah, .32 H&R magnum.
 
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Nobody is saying the 38/357 will become obsolete or anything of that order. Your welcome to come shoot my J frame 357 but you have to do a minimum of 100 full house loads that I will provide you absolutely free.

But explain to me why a slightly smaller bullet at higher velocity is worse than a slightly bigger bullet of the SAME weight going slower is not going to work. The 38 +P 110 gr 38 is well proven as is the 9mm loads of the same weights

If you do not believe in higher chamber pressures and smaller lighter bullets how could you possibly support the 357 as an equal to the 44 special or 45acp. When the 357 came out with its higher chamber pressure they ruled the roost and are still effective.

I got it you don't think much of the 327 and that's fine. Use what you like, nobody here will stop you.
 
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How's this for input: none of those factors mean jack till it has been proven in actual shootings.

The 32 S&W Long, which is a lower powered round that can be shot in a 327 Federal gun, was used as a police cartridge for decades.

The 32-20, with similar ballistics to the 327 Federal, has been used to take many game animals, and has defended many homes and ranches for decades. It was limited during it's era by having only RNL and RN flat point bullets available.

The 32 ACP, with lighter bullets, was used for years as a military and police cartridge in Europe. Usually with hotter loads (but way less powerful than 327 Federal) than current US 32 ACP offerings.

Don't get me wrong, the 38 special is a great cartridge and won't be obsolete for a long time.

And the 357 Magnum is perhaps the greatest SD revolver cartridge ever.

But I think the best place for the 357 Magnum is in full sized guns with bigger frames and 4" + barrels -- not in small guns like J frame snubs.
 
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I will not state that a 327 is as powerful or as much of a "stopper" as a 357. Heck I carry a 45 acp gun. I look at my 357s as plinkers. But, a 327 115 gr bullet traveling at greater velocity as a 110 gr 38 spec +P, has got to be as effective and because it has the same weight and a smaller diameter it would have a better sectional density and should penetrate a bit better. Given this a 6 shot vs a 5 shot J frame of the same power, I'll take the 6 in a small light convenient to carry package.[/QUOTE


Following that logic, you should be carrying a compact auto loader.
 
I posted this on another forum.

Let's see if I get hit with different brickbats here. :)

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I'm coming to the conclusion the above is the true.

Reasons:

o The 327 Federal is a 21st century design and operates at higher pressure than other magnum revolver cartridges (e.g 357, 41, 44 Magnum). About 9000-10000 PSI higher.

o The 327 Federal is new enough that no older, weaker guns need to be considered by ammo manufacturers.

o Being smaller in diameter, most guns can hold an additional round. For example, J frames and LCRs chambered in 327 Fed hold 6 rather than 5 rounds of 38/357.

o Although 38/357 guns shoot a larger diameter bullet, it's not that much larger (.357" vs .31") and, in general 327 Federal's slightly lighter rounds move at a higher velocity and are therefore more likely to expand.

o Although high end 357 Magnum ammo can generate higher muzzle energies, the 327 Federal SD loads, with their higher pressure and higher velocity are equal to most 357 Magnum defense loads from short barrelled guns. I'd give 357 magnum an edge in SD against bears and such due to higher power, but typically reasonable 4 legged defense guns are bigger than what people want to carry concealed in town. Plus few can shoot the high end 357 magnums in a snub well.

o The 327 Federal gun can also shoot 32 H&R Magnum for people who want less recoil and noise in a SD gun, and can shoot 32 Long for practice. The existence of a lower powered option is an important advantage shared with 357 Magnums, but absent in the 9mm world.

o Ammo, at least around here, is becoming more available and I'm finding at least some 327 Federal loads available in most LGS's.

What's really needed to make 327 Fed more popular for SD is more small, light carry guns.

We could use a 6 shot 327 Federal Scandium J frame similar to the M&P 340 and 340PD.

Right now, that market it left to the LCR 327 and the SP101 3" version (just re-introduced).

The cartridge got off to a false start when it first came out mainly for lack of ammo, but it seems to be making a comeback now that both practice and good SD ammo is available.

Kimber needed you as a consultant when deciding what to make the K6 fire. They got it all wrong and went with the puny .357 magnum. Too bad they could have sold a ton of them if they had checked with you first.
 
327 is intriguing however I already cast and reload for 38/357. New ammo is pretty limited in selection and costs more. Most stores wil have at most 1 type of 327 ammo and maybe 32 magnum or 32 Long.

It's obviously a powerful round and I'm glad the manufacturers are supporting it, but anyone who thinks it will overcome .357 is delusional.

Given the choice of .327 or .357 I know which one I'd choose, and I'm willing to bet most people will stick with .357.
 
I carry a 6 shot alloy 45 acp (a 2 1/2" 325) and have several other 45 acp and 45 colt revolvers. I DO believe in big bullets. I even have a Commander length alloy 1911. If I knew I was going to be in a gun fight a select fire Thompson would be great.

I am not trying to convince any one the 327 mag is superior to bigger bullets Hardly.

I believe that a 357 is a great round but, much better suited to K frame sized revolvers than light J frames. I have a 640-1, a 4 " 19 and a 2 1/2" K frame 357 as well as some N frame 357s. I also have several 38s. All great guns

I also have a 696 and a 396 44 specials. The 396 is a great carry gun, smaller lighter than my 45, about the same power. but only 5 rounds

But I am not so close minded that I can't see the advantage of having a light small 6 shot J frame. Easy to carry and I personally believe it would be at least as good if not a better than a 5 shot J frame 38 special. News flash lots of J frame 38s being carried every day by knowledgeable gun guys, off duty LEOs etc. Better than a 380 auto and lots of those being carried too.

Whats wrong with wanting another option??? More the merrier I say.

PS I also have some 32 S&Ws I frames a J frame as well as a K frame 16-4.

I even have a 22 Jet, I wouldn't purposely take it to a gun fight.
 
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OK, I slept through this on Sunday afternoon, but today I’ll chime in with my two cents’ worth. I bought a Blackhawk 8-shooter in 327 at the same time I was having my stainless custom K-frame 327 (Project 616) built. I would like to own a Model 631 adjustable sight version with 3-4” barrel and would accept it in 327, but really think a medium frame gun is needed to “enjoy” the benefits of the “real” 32 Magnum. JMHO, YMMV.

Froggie
 
Like Green Frog I also had a K-frame .327 built, this one on a 6" Model 53 .22 Jet. It is much more pleaant to shoot with full loads than the Ruger 3" SP-101 or LCR I have...

That said I would love to buy a 3" adjustable sight 60-15 made in .327 instead of .357. I have one of the earlier 60-10s and it is hard to beat as a small "outdoorsman's" gun...

Bob
 
SuperMan, you could have an adjustable sighted J-frame in 327 FM. As Billy Joel says, "all it takes is looks and a whole lot of money." In this case, you would buy a Model 63 in 22 LR or its equivalent 22 Mag. Then you would have the barrel and cylinder rebored suitably and the hammer and firing pin converted for center fire use. See? It's easy! :D I guess you could also use a Model 60-4 and buy a Model 63 barrel and cylinder to convert... that might be a little more pricy though. :eek:

Guess I'll continue to shoot 327s in bigger guns and save my I- and J-frames for more mundane 32 S&W and 38 Spl rounds. :rolleyes:

Froggie
 
If I want uber fast light bullets, and capacity I am going with a Rock 22 TCM. I am sure at darn near rifle velocity out of a handgun it will make the 327 obsolete. (insert evil laugh)

OK I have stopped laughing now. I shoot guns with mostly slow bullets. I used the TCM as a joke, it has some impressive velocity, but a 22 lr at slower velocity will out penetrate the high velocity TCM. I want penetration, and that takes weight, I can't see shooting a 180 grain bullet from a 32 327 handgun. I guess anything is possible

I am not a power freak, I rarely carry 357, and when I want power I go with 44 mag. I believe if a round does what it is supposed to do I am satisfied. The extra round is nice, but IMO I don't believe a 327 federal at 45K compares with a FBI load at 20k. And let's not even get into +P+/38/44 at 25K which will well outperform the 327.
 
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OK, I slept through this on Sunday afternoon, but today I’ll chime in with my two cents’ worth. I bought a Blackhawk 8-shooter in 327 at the same time I was having my stainless custom K-frame 327 (Project 616) built. I would like to own a Model 631 adjustable sight version with 3-4” barrel and would accept it in 327, but really think a medium frame gun is needed to “enjoy” the benefits of the “real” 32 Magnum. JMHO, YMMV.

Froggie



[emoji106]


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I believe that a 357 is a great round but, much better suited to K frame sized revolvers than light J frames.



But I am not so close minded that I can't see the advantage of having a light small 6 shot J frame. Easy to carry and I personally believe it would be at least as good if not a better than a 5 shot J frame 38 special. News flash lots of J frame 38s being carried every day by knowledgeable gun guys, off duty LEOs etc. Better than a 380 auto and lots of those being carried too.

Have to agree with Steelslaver...... .357 is better in a k-frame.... I have and carry a 60-10 3" ( think micro 686) with .357s.... but not often or as a primary....................

From what I read above; with good ammo availability.... a 3" 6 shot .32 magnum revolver (mini-micro 686 :D) would be interesting for CC and as as "kit gun"
 
Right.

And you heavy bullet, low velocity, guys should load your pockets with 5lb rocks and ditch your guns.

5 pound rock is likely to knock out an attacker, probably 1 rock stop. A lot of people have been murdered with hammers weighing less. I can't even fathom how much damage a 3 pound sledge would do on a skull. Extreme close range combat, I would take the sledge over the 327 anytime.
 
I own three now. The 8 black hawk shoots very fast with the 100 gr load. When introduced I got a 4-5/8” Single seven. Recoil is noticeable and it’s a kit gun single. I do think the K frame would be ideal for the 327.


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Ammunition and guns chambered in it are extremely limited. Looking over the website of various ammo manufacturers and most don't have a single offering in .327 Federal. Gun selection is just as scarce. Apparently there was an all steel J-Frame chambered for it, but it has since been discontinued. I just don't see .327 really going anywhere with .38/.357 being so established and the majority perspective being that it is not inadequate or lacking in any substantial way that justifies a switch. If someone wants something smaller in a revolver, they usually drop to a .22
 
5 pound rock is likely to knock out an attacker, probably 1 rock stop. A lot of people have been murdered with hammers weighing less. I can't even fathom how much damage a 3 pound sledge would do on a skull. Extreme close range combat, I would take the sledge over the 327 anytime.


well you get a lot more power out of the Sledge/hammer vs the 5lb rock due to the leverage/velocity provided by the handle....... now the optimum handle length ....... may limit concealed carry....... :D

The 327 may benefit from a tapered barrel...... for sticking up attacker's nose! :D

Footnote: IIRC: war hammers were popular against plate armor
 
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