S&W 617 for Bullseye shooting

Spraywizzard · Dec 25, 2017

Hello everyone ,
I was wondering if the 617 can be turned into a small bore worthy of shooting bullseye class at 25 yards indoors ? or at 50 feet with the smaller competition targets ?

This pistol may not be as competitive as the guys with $2000+ S&W M41's and $4000+ Custom 1911's , but I DARE to be different and am looking to have fun shooting with them , with something completely out of the norm .

I shot with them for the first time last week at my local indoor range and they were a great group of guys and I used the Wives S&W 22 Victory , I think I had a 350-400 score out of total 600 . Used the Remmington bucket of bullets cheap ammo as its what I had .

Could the 617 be more accurate ( using better 22LR ammo ) then the Victory ? Or should I just put some money into the Victory and go with what I already have instead of spending $759 for the 617 ?

My only concern is the DA trigger on the 617 shooting the Rapid Fire targets ( 5-10 shots in 10 seconds on 1 target i believe) or would it be a struggle to even think using the 617 as a bullseye / Precision Pistol class , I am not looking to go full on competitive , just more of a fun thing to do during the cold winter months .

I am not a bad shot as I won a full membership shooting in a members only competition in Oct. with having to draw on what rental range 9mm pistol you shot (I Drew the Sig P-226 Legion ) and I came in 4th out of 85 members that shot in the competition .

I just don't want to spend $1800 on a S&W M41 as I know they are the cats meow on the lower budget end of Bullseye/ Precision shooting sports .

Bullseye 2620 · Dec 25, 2017

First of all, a Model 41, even a vintage one in pristine shape, won't cost you anyplace close to $1,800.00. Under $1,000 will do it. Properly cared for, that gun will last forever.

Second, while a 617 is inherently accurate enough, that long double-action stroke is not optimal for bullseye competition. Rapid fire (two five-shot strings shot in 10 seconds each) is not well-suited to double action revolvers, which is why .38 Special revolvers, which used to dominate the center fire stage of 2700 matches, went out of favor.

Third, yes, you need competitive ammo. It does not have to be Eley Tenex, but do yourself a favor and shoot something that will at least group into an inch at 25 yards. No high-velocity junk! Eley, RWS, Federal, all make reasonably priced standard pressure .22 rimfire ammo. Buy some.

Resist the temptation to get into an "arms race." That guy who just dropped $4,000 on a match 1911 is a fool. Having an expensive gun on the line will not add one point to your score. Focusing on fundamentals and lots of practice, will.

I say all of this as a master-rated bullseye shooter. Hope this helps.

D Brown · Dec 25, 2017

I don't think there's a need to go to double action in the rapid fire stages in bullseye competition. There's plenty of time to cock the action and fire single action.

Best of luck to you, whichever direction you decide to take.

Wee Hooker · Dec 25, 2017

I once bought a 6" 617 that had been worked over for gallery/bullseye. It had a compensator and 2.2# SA trigger. DA was buttery smooth and light. The guy that had it built (at considerable extra cost) gave up as it just couldn't compete with he semi autos in the rapid fire events.
It was a great gun in it's own way but I also used it only once to compete before finding out the same for myself. Your results may differ but I would suspect not.

Protocall_Design · Dec 25, 2017

I shoot bullseye with a 617. I shoot all DA with one hand. I can manage a 275, 280 out of 300, but I will never get those last 25 points. The gun is capable, but not the best choice for a high score. I only shoot S&W revos in DA mode because of the challenge. Anyone can do it with an auto.

Spraywizzard · Dec 25, 2017

Thanks everyone for your input , I appreciate it .

Looks like I need to maybe readjust my thinking , especially after Wee Hookers post .
Darn, I was hoping I could maybe do fairly decent with this crazy idea of using the 617 as I usually walk to the beat of a different drummer and hate going with what everyone else goes with .

Maybe I will just spend some extra money on the wives S&W 22 Victory and see how I do with it with the next few outings .
I have practiced with it at 15 yards and can get 1.5" groups with the garbage remington bucket ammo . Have not practiced at 25 yards with it
.
I am not looking to be a Bullseye Master at this bullseye shooting , just some fun in the evenings while its cold here these winter months .

Whats crazy is the amount of money these guys have in their rigs and boxes !!! I thought I was crazy with my high dollar golf clubs ( $3000 full bag ) , this Gun stuff is a CRAZY expensive Hobby ! &#55357;&#56883;

Bullseye 2620 · Dec 25, 2017

Toolguy said:
I only shoot S&W revos in DA mode because of the challenge. Anyone can do it with an auto.

Not to be disputacious on this Day of Peace, but methinks, NOT!

A single visit to the Wailing Wall at Camp Perry confirms the accuracy of my observation.

I don't want this to deteriorate into a theocratic argument about revolvers vs. semi-autos in bullseye competition. There was a time when revolvers dominated centerfire and were seen in the .22 and .45 stages sometimes, too. These guns were used because they were the best available.

I like doing novel things. I have often thought, "why not my accurized 6-1/2 inch 29-2 in centerfire competition?" It would be legal. It would knock 15 or 20 points off of everyone else's score were I to use full-house magnum rounds. It would be tons of fun even if it might get me suspended from the range for a while.

But I don't do it because it doesn't contribute to my skills as a marksman or as a competitor.

I just don't see the point to competing to lose.

chief38 · Dec 25, 2017

.22 LR S&W Target Gun Picks (my suggestions)

1) Model 41
2) Model 17
3) Model 18

Non S&W:

Hi Standard Trophy, Victor, etc. but again - VINTAGE models only.

Colt's Targetsman

All vintage of course........

flagman1776 · Dec 25, 2017

Do yourself a big favor... what ever gun you decide to use... bench rest the ammo. Most guns have perferances, sometimes very strong perferances. I used a big block of wood under a shot bag that I had on hand. I rested the underlug of the barrel on the rest, right up to the guard. Fire all single action. Keep good records. Once you know the ammo is as good as it gets, you can focus on your skills.

andyo5 · Dec 25, 2017

I don't understand why a Bullseye competitor with a revolver would shoot it double action. Bullseye is slow-fire competition, not so?
Cock it and fire it single-action.
BTW, I own a M 617-2.

Spraywizzard · Dec 25, 2017

andyo5 said:
I don't understand why a Bullseye competitor with a revolver would shoot it double action. Bullseye is slow-fire competition, not so?
Cock it and fire it single-action.
BTW, I own a M 617-2.

There are several firing disciplines with Bullseye , you have slow & rapid fire . all have time limits .

H Richard · Dec 25, 2017

Unfortunately the 617 isn't the gun for a newer shooter to learn the Bullseye game. Once you are a seasoned competitor, you may want to also master the revolver. There are two schools, the "cock and shoot SA" and the "Double Action" shooters.

The Cock and shoot SA takes many many hours of practicing to manipulate the hammer/trigger within the time frame.

The Double Action method usually requires a couple hundred dollar custom trigger job, and then more practice to control that long trigger pull.

If you really want to be competitive, you will wind up with a Semi-Auto. The Victory (I am told) is capable of Expert level of shooting. Practice, and a good ammo your gun likes will get you there.

I have shot in a rimfire bullseye league for over 35 years, for a few years averaged over 285 on the 300 point gallery (50 ft) course. As my age crawls past 75, I have difficulty getting anywhere near that, but our league is broken into Classes, so we compete against others in the same class's.

I shot a High Standard Victor for many many years, and with a custom barrel on it quite a few years. I switched to an IZH 35M (Russian) pistol about 14 years ago, and it is shooting on par with my buddies Pardini, and quite a few Mod 41's etc. I feed it CCI Standard Velocity 40 Gr. It will group (off a bench rest) into 3/8" at 50 ft. The trigger is adjustable and can be outstanding. When I bought it it was $400, I understand they currently (when you can find one) run around $650- $700. Of course I have added a red dot, Burris FastFire III and a set of custom grips.

Just starting with the Victory would be my recommendation and build on that.

Bullseye 2620 · Dec 25, 2017

andyo5 said:
I don't understand why a Bullseye competitor with a revolver would shoot it double action. Bullseye is slow-fire competition, not so?
Cock it and fire it single-action.
BTW, I own a M 617-2.

Bullseye, or more formally, conventional pistol, combines three stages of fire -- slow fire, timed fire, and rapid fire -- across three matches -- .22 mandatory, centerfire (any centerfire caliber between and including .32 and .45), and .45 mandatory. There are several variants of this, but the baseline match, the so-called 2700 (because that it the maximum score possible), includes three slow fire targets (each ten shots in no more than 10 minutes each fired at 50 yards), three timed fire targets (10 shots fired in two five-shot strings of no more than 20 seconds each), and three rapid fire targets (10 shots fired in two five-shot strings of no more than 10 seconds each). So, that is a total of 90 shots in each of the three matches, each worth a maximum of 10 points, so the best possible score in each match -- .22, centerfire, and .45 -- is a 900. 900 x three matches = 2700.

Revolvers are great in single action and in slow fire they don't give an inch to any semi-auto. No doubt about it. But there are very few people who can master the technique of shooting revolvers rapid fire in single-action mode. Just because Jerry Miculek can do it doesn't mean that you or I can.

By the way, no one has ever shot a perfect score in a registered 2700 match. Sgt. Herschel Anderson's 2680 with 159 Xs fired in 1974 remains the record.

OKFC05 · Dec 25, 2017

andyo5 said:
I don't understand why a Bullseye competitor with a revolver would shoot it double action. Bullseye is slow-fire competition, not so?
Cock it and fire it single-action.
BTW, I own a M 617-2.

Bullseye is slow, timed and rapid fire. In rapid fire you shoot 5 shots in 10 seconds, one handed. I have always shot single action, cocking the hammer with my firing hand. I shot my way up to Expert using a Model 17 and Winchester standard velocity .22.
I use a Model 14 .38 for centerfire, unlike many who used .45 auto in centerfire.
It's like golf and music: putting piles of money into the equipment does not make you a champion, and its harder than it looks.

CH4 · Dec 25, 2017

BlueRidgeBoy said:
Not to be disputacious on this Day of Peace, but methinks, NOT!

A single visit to the Wailing Wall at Camp Perry confirms the accuracy of my observation.

I don't want this to deteriorate into a theocratic argument about revolvers vs. semi-autos in bullseye competition. There was a time when revolvers dominated centerfire and were seen in the .22 and .45 stages sometimes, too. These guns were used because they were the best available.

I like doing novel things. I have often thought, "why not my accurized 6-1/2 inch 29-2 in centerfire competition?" It would be legal. It would knock 15 or 20 points off of everyone else's score were I to use full-house magnum rounds. It would be tons of fun even if it might get me suspended from the range for a while.

But I don't do it because it doesn't contribute to my skills as a marksman or as a competitor.

I just don't see the point to competing to lose.

Hmmm
Seems we have a sesquipedalian on our site - just finish grad school?

Bullseye 2620 · Dec 25, 2017

Dr.Lou said:
Hmmm. Seems we have a sesquipedalian on our site - just finish grad school?

That's rude, sir. Interesting that I'm not the one who feels the need to stick "Dr." in front of his name.

Protocall_Design · Dec 25, 2017

We eschew obfuscation.

nachogrande · Dec 25, 2017

THE HECK WITH THE SCORES

Enjoy using what YOU PREFER. Shoot what you have. Why stop, unless you plan on going pro.

Revolvers & semi's should be in a different class anyway, Unless you decide to shoot open class against anything. There are lot's of other shooting disciplines. Bowling pin or steel challenge, seemingly more laid back (???), "poor mans event" might be a better fit for a 617. If spending another grand saves you a full second, and you ARE that competitive, have the $, then go for it. The shooter & most of the spectators seem to know when someone is on a hot streak without a timer & the gun or manner of trigger work doesn't amount to much. If you're not having fun, then why do it?

Wee Hooker · Dec 25, 2017

I should add that I once entered a local.22 rimfire pistol match with my 1939' outoorsman. I was the only one shooting the (25 yd, 25 round, Timed) event with a revolver. I didn't win but it was easily the most rewarding 2nd place I ever took. There was a group of semi auto shooters that were seriously red faced when it was done! ( Enough so where I was never invited back

As others have said, there is something to be said for shooting what you enjoy.

Bob L · Dec 25, 2017

Keep in mind that the rapid course of fire is 5 shots in 10 seconds. Your first shot should be able to be fired within 1/2 second from the fire command. This leaves you 9.5 seconds for the remaining 4 shots or not quite 2.4 seconds per shot. It is longer than you think. Most people rush the shots in rapid fire, myself included.

S&W 617 for Bullseye shooting

Member

Member

SWCA Member

Member

Vendor

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

Member

Vendor

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads