I want to preface I am in no way bashing or complaining just looking for a rational fix of my favorite revolver.

Model 63 purchased new aprox 7 years ago from Ron Shirks. The groove machined in the top of the frame is off center far enough that the rear sight adjusted all the way to one side the gun still hits over an inch left at seven yards and aprox 1 foot left at 100 yds.

Putting the gun on granite inspection plate and checking with indicator shows the groove is cut almost .003 deeper on one side causing one side of the rear sight to sit lower than the other, in addition to the off center issue.

I can put the frame in the mill and fix these problems but will require a wider rear sight base which I haven't found. Is this something that has a simple fix. I know this is not an uncommon problem, I pulled 12 smiths made in the past 10 years and 3 of them exhibit this problem to some degree, but this is the only one bad enough to not have enough sight adjustment.

here is a pic.

Do the math out to 25 yds? You couldn't hit the side of a barn, standing inside! Is the barrel clocked correctly? You have more problems than a rear sight. I think that gun needs to back to S&W!
jcelect

BBL is timed properly.

A foot left at what range?

Just eyeballing your picture it looks like the notch is already past center to the right. If that is the case, something other than the rear sight is messed up. Have you checked the crown?

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Mark

Fixed it, foot left at 100 yds, Yes crown is fine, the issue is the frame was misaligned during machining.

I don't quite understand but if your happy and did it yourself, all is good!
Jcelect

How did this pass QC? Sorry but I don't have a practical answer. If you send it for repair you might get a new gun or a note that no issues were found.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

Please enlighten us on your "fix".

I'm pretty sure the "fixed it" was for his wording not the gun. If the rear sight being off center a few thousandths was the only issue then the available adjustment would be able to compensate. Since it doesn't I would suspect other problems inherent with the gun. I think I would send it back with a detailed letter.

Can you clock the barrel to make the front sight line up with the rear when centered?

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protocalldesign.com

Quality Control is an issue with S&W and lots of other shops who have gone full CNC. When Steve Melvin and the British took over S&W in the mid 80’s their primary objective was to thin out the redundant hands on herd working in the shops on old worn out machinery. That’s fine that’s great that’s a problem. Every machining center can experience problems but the trick is to catch it before is churns out a truckload of mistakes.

The cost of hands on inspection is one of those expenses that in many companies doesn’t fit into a nice slot. It’s not a slot in production that can be monitored and evaluated for every unit, it’s not management, it’s not sales, it’s not transportation or communication it’s none of these. It’s somebody on the payroll who picks out a part randomly to inspect and possibly test. The bean counters hate this kind of expense and often throw it into misc. expenses category which makes inspection costs and production/performance savings tough to track but easy to cut. This gun could be ( can’t tell by photos ) a fixture or machine failure that got into the assembly stream and obviously was never tested or inspected.

Rick

You would be much better off posting this in the Gunsmithing subforum. I think you would get more relevant replies to your question. I would have no idea on how to fix the problem.

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SWCA 3297 SWHF 583

If you send to S&W, provide a detailed description of the problem and how you figured it out. Hopefully the smith inspecting it will read you note and realize the same problem. Had a Contender 44mag barrel that was bored off center. Made it impact 6" left at 25 yards of bore alignment. They inspected, agreed with my assessment and sent me a new BBL. I asked for a .357 mag instead and that it what I got.

Rosewood

I would let S&W figure it out.

As one old timer put it, a computer controlled machine can turn out scrap faster than ever before possible.

I have one example, a M640 with the cylinder flutes not spaced evenly over the chambers. Not as bad as the guy who got seven flutes over six chambers, you have to look closely. Too bad I didn't notice that before I had it nicely engraved.

I had an Italian copy that shot way to the left. Gunsmith found that the barrel was so curved it would not pass a range rod. The importer smelled it, sent it back to Italy, and eventually sent me a partial refund. Stuff like that almost put them out of business.

Same reason I am wholesale against self driving cars.

Rosewood

Missing something here. Are these correct?

1) The rear sight blade is already moved right as far as it can go, and is to the edge of the frame.
2)You want to machine the frame and replace the sight so you can move the blade even farther right.
3)If you move the blade far enough right to be sighted correctly, the blade will stick out past the side of the frame.

It looks to me something else is the problem. Is the barrel bent? Is the frame bent? Have you checked barrel-chamber alignment? Are they coaxial?

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Mark

Well, I would be sending it back to the factory. I doubt S&W will ever say that failure to shoot to the point of aim is acceptable.

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

Put a straightedge along both sides of the topstrap and see if the muzzle is the same distance on both sides.

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protocalldesign.com

Fixed it as in the wording of my original post

Thanks for all the Input. Contacted Smith and they sent a return label but the woman I spoke with says the repair shop is possibly (?)closed and I should keep the gun until a month or two after this CV19 thing is over as it will sit in the un-opened box in receiving. Not a biggy either way.

As far as the problem with the gun, it seems when the frame was clamped on the fixture it was not oriented correctly and the slot is .052 off center and the right side of the .25 wide slot is .0028 lower than the left side as viewed from the rear firing position. Thats alot over .25" and makes both sight assemblies I have tried appear low on the right and its making me rotate the gun at an angle. I have run the dial indicator down the frame and bbl on both sides and the bbl is in the center and clocked better than I could ask for.

I am in hopes there is a wider sight base from similar gun and I will just machine and swap site, the rest of this thing is just spectacular. Thanks again for all the input, I am going back to stare at the top of all my other revolvers now. LOL

Even if you found a sight with a wider base and machined the top of the frame to fit it, the mounting screw location would still be off. I suppose you could find someone who could fill weld the holes and re-drill and tap in the correct location.

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Pine_Worker
Ex-LEO, NRA Life

A K,L or N frame sight is .280 wide. Would one of those work?

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protocalldesign.com

Personally, I would never consider purchasing a revolver or any handgun with such a defect. If anyone thinks that misaligned sight leaf is OK, well then, so be it. Not me. I always inspect any gun I purchase to make sure no such defects are present. That such a gun made it past the factory's final inspection is incredible.

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FBINA, 204th Session

you purchased the gun 7 years ago and just now you have this problem? Should have been sent back the day after you first shot it.

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S&W Accumulator

Another reason I don't like buying new guns, unless I can examine them the same as if they were used.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

I don't understand your math, how are you getting a cumulative error that exceeds 0.25"?

So your desired solution is to machine the frame so you can mount a new sight with the blade extending past the right side of the frame?

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Mark

I may have missed it, but have you run a range rod of the right diameter thru the barrel and cylinder to see if it aligns with the firing pin hole in the recoil shield? If it doesn't align correctly, then the frame is slightly tweaked. This can usually be corrected fairly easily with the right tools and a little patience.

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Mike H

I understand your problem. It is butt ugly even if it shoots straight. Life is short - Get rid of it it and get something that makes you happy.

If the sight was level and only .054 off center simply moving the blade .054 would make it shoot correctly if that is your only problem. .054 is less than 1/16th of an inch. That wouldn't require moving the sight all the way to one side. Your canting the gun tto get the sight level is compounding your horizontal bullet strike as bore is of course below sight plane and the vertical sight adjustment for that becomes horizontal as you rotate the gun to the side. One of the big problems with the carrying handle AR platforms.

But, it does sounds like the frame was not square to the cutter when the slot was machined. I would send it back. Sounds like your a machinist and if so, I think you could fix it, but it would be some hard work. Disassemble the gun and remove barrel and fit a heavy block of steel into frame window. Then peen the top of the frame on the narrow side so that material is moved into the slot on that side. Recut the groove so bottom of groove is square and refinish the top of the frame so it is near level with the top of sight portion the sits in groove. This would also remove the peen marks. I would then tape it off and bead blast top of frame for a matte look in that area and help blend it if need be. Even if you did not get enough material peened into place to get the sight body 100% dead center just squaring it up would help a bunch.

While I believe this method would work, I don't think I would try it, First I would send the gun back to factory. If no satisfaction from factory and having a mill I would first square up the bottom of slot to level the sight and see how much that helped. I don't think the hole for the front screw would be a problem. The hole in the sight base if a bit generous and the the top is tapered, the slot holds the sight in place left to right, the screw just holds it down.



mh51 suggestion is also good.

Simple math, slot is .25 wide and off center. Not sure what you mean about sight blade hanging further off the side of the frame, sight base simply needs to be in the center of the gun and on a horizontal plane so the center line of the sight is directly over the bore. Ill just pop it in the mail in the next few months and await its return.

Misunderstood, I thought you meant the error was greater than 0.25", you meant that 0.028" lower was alot over that distance.

I still don't understand how moving the sight base over will help. The sight is currently as far right as it will go, and is to the edge of the frame. You need to move it further right to get sighted in. The sight will be past the frame. Something else must be wrong.

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Mark