What's your opinion about LIMITED use of 9mm +P+ Federal 9BPLE 115 grain JHP and Winchester Ranger-T +P+ in a 986?

"practice with +P, then carry +P+"

"occasionally shoot a few +P+ to stay familiar with recoil, POA"

You say what about that idea?

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Professional Trainer

I'd say that you don't have a thing to worry about except your wallet - occasionally!!

wise words

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Professional Trainer

Will it void the warranty if the gun breaks?

Since there is NO STANDARD for +P+, it all depends on whose +P+ you use. They range from barely over specs for +P to Major 9 to who knows what? The only safe(?) way to go above SAAMI specs is to ask the manufacturer what pressure the specific loads are, and then decide for yourself what to shoot, at your own risk.

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Science plus Art

It is a 9mm, in an L-frame Smith and Wesson, you are not going to hurt it with "occasional" use of anything factory loaded.

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excellent point, I'll edit my post for clarity

I was referring to 9mm +P+ Federal 9BPLE 115 grain JHP and Winchester Ranger_T +P+

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Professional Trainer

Read OKFC05’s post again and understand that 9mm is something known, 9mm+P is something known and both are built to an agreed-upon industry standard that S&W is well aware of and has built their firearms around this standard.

9mm+P+ is held to no standard whatsoever and could literally be made with ANYTHING, to produce any pressure and any kind of end result.

S&W has not ever and does not now list 9mm+P+ as an acceptable ammunition, and they will never recommend that you buy it or attempt to use it in their firearms.

Regular 9mm max pressure is very nearly equal to .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum pressure specs. 9mm+P exceeds both.

What, then, is the maximum pressure for 9mm+P+ ?

Well, there is none. So it could be wildly different depending on who made it and what they were attempting to accomplish.

That would be incorrect if you mean it's just a crapshoot (no pun intended).

I asked about specific rounds with known pressures.

https://www.winchesterint.com/images...IES/CRA9TA.pdf

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Professional Trainer

I say that you’re incorrect. SAAMI keeps the standards and they go to great length to do so, and they do not keep a standard for 9mm+P+ any more than they do for .585 RhinoBlast.

No S&W has ever been spec’d for .585 RhinoBlast, much like no S&W has even been spec’d for 9mm+P+.

However, S&W also shoots proof loads through their firearms so the 986 is likely to handle that ammo.

For fun, g’head and call S&W and tell ‘em that’s what you want to feed it.

Their lawyers have already spoken.

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Professional Trainer

Fairly likely if you own up to it.

On the other hand I communicated regularly with a guy who designed guns for the original William B. Ruger and was pretty high up at Ruger's Prescott, AZ plant when he retired.

He'd cut customers a lot of slack if they didn't lie to him and often replaced guns people had damaged via inappropriate ammo.

So, I'd say it's up to the CS person you talk to, might help you if you damaged the gun, might not.

Why bother? You don't get much more out of +P+ than +P. Having said that, I doubt your gun will be damaged by occasional use.

I once talked to S&W and asked if they had ever used the entire cylinder length to up the power of the 500 Mag? Their answer was, why, it can penetrate a cape buffalo end to end what more do you need? Don

My question would be, why do you want to shoot/carry +P+ in the first place? From all that I have read on the subject, it is unnecessary and gains you little in terms of performance????

I think that is one of those just-over loads; never heard anything bad about it.

I just can't get past:
Smith and Wesson
L-frame
......puny 9mm case, unless you have figured out how to detonate C-4 in a 9mm case, ... really ***!

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Hahahaha.

Buy one and I’ll load you up a round of 9mm and we’ll see if I can take your top strap off.

Game on?

Well, I have seen first hand, a model 10 S&W, that the owner fired 11 rounds of .38+p in, the first one was a squib, the other 10 fired, and lodged in the 4" barrel, the 11th was not fully into the barrel, and blocked the cylinder from turning, and bulged the top strap! Now, looking at the case capacity of the 9mm, versus the .38, I'll bet on the L frame!

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Never tried +P+ in a 986, but my poor little 940 has had quite a few Winchester and Federal +P+s through it over the last 20+ years. Only a few at a time, as they will draw blood around the thumb knuckle in short order.

What occurs to me is that the coating on the titanium cylinder of the 986 might be burnt through when using +P+s. Not unlike what happens at times with the light bullet .357 Magnum loads in various other titanium cylindered S&W revolvers.

Bingo! Back in the days of jacketed hollow point bullets needing a blistering fast velocity for reliable expansion, and +P was not quite enough, several ammo manufacturers introduced 9mm +P+ loads. The Federal 9BPLE was the king of the +P+ loads.

Skip forward to the 21st century and modern bullets like the Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, and Winchester Ranger-T, these bullets expand reliably at standard pressures. With modern bullets, +P usually results in even faster expansion, but at the expense of penetration.

As previously mentioned, SAAMI sets pressure limits for standard pressure and +P, but there is no standard for +P+. 9mm +P+ can be anything from just barely over +P to approaching proof load pressure. Will it destroy an L-frame revolver? With limited use, no, not likely at all, but if there is any damage, S&W would not be obligated to honor the warranty.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

IMHO regular 9mm HP ammo works just fine. No need to bother with that stuff. 147gr Gold Dots or SXT can't be beat.

I don't have a 986, so can't say if 9BPLE is appropriate for that revolver. But I have used my share of Federal 9BPLE 115 +P+ and Winchester 115+P+ and 127+P+ in a variety of revolvers and semi-auto pistols. I have never encountered an issue, other than sticky extraction in one revolver, in using 9mm +P+ in my firearms.....ymmv

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

As others have mentioned, there is no SAAMI standard for +P+. But back in the day, the Illinois State Police used 115 gr +P+ in their S&W autos; the ammo was purchased on a state contract and the contract itself had pressure limits. I don't have a copy any more, but the limits weren't much higher than +P. The contract velocity was 1,300 fps from a S&W Model 59.

I bought the ammo for my small department and test fired each lot. The Winchester +P+ always made the 1,300 fps floor and usually did about 1,330 from my Hi Power. The Federal 9BPLE only made the velocity spec about half of the time and typically clocked around 1,280 fps for me. Of course, velocity and pressure are not completely correlated, and current production might be different.

An ISP instructor wanted to see how long his 59 would last with the +P+, last I heard he had fired something like 50k rds with only normal parts replacements.

I did have a 940 (J-frame 9mm) and it would lock up when the +P+ would jam the case heads against the recoil shield.

Occasionally, I’ll ask myself “What would Burt Gummer do?”