Looking for a little new revolver opinions. First off, I have not even handled a "new" Smith & Wesson to speak off for years. I was of the opinion that anything after the 80's was of poor quality.

Today, I stopped at a LGS that I don't do business with. They had a used 629-? that looked nice. What the heck, I asked to check it out. When I got it in my hand I saw the lock on the side, literally the first one I have handled. The gun was very nice! Opening, closing, working the action etc. it felt like a 1960's revolver. I was amazed, to the point that if it was a pre-lock I might have considered it. I than handled a 69-? that also had the lock. This one felt like I what had expected, opening and closing was clunky and the action had a little grit feel to it. The 629 blew me away, the 69 was what I expected.

Can you guys who have these more modern guns explain what I found. Is the 629 just better built or was it just luck of the draw.

Thanks,

938

I have 4 revolvers with the locks. A 686+, a 586, a 629 and a 29. With the exception of the bluing on the newer guns, they appear to me to be the equal or better than the old ones. Everything works well and as it should. That's a small sample size of 4 but it's greater than your sample size of 2. I think it was just luck of the draw. I think the 66 is the exception, not the 629. They occasionally let some less than stellar guns go in the '50s and '60s too.

__________________
The best I can with what I got

A lot of this stuff is just nostalgic thinking. I got new 629 and 686 a few years ago. Lock model. They feel just fine, shoot excellently. The side plate is so tight you have to look to see the line. I'm guessing that with modern computer-assisted machining and finishing, they are at least as good as the one in Dirty Harry.

Just ignore the lock. Never stopped me from buy a Smith I liked.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Got this 586 in a trade a couple years ago, and fit and finish were really very nice . I just couldn't get past the lock, so off to the next gunshow he went. Not one dealer was interested because of the lock. Couldn't hardly give it away,..... which is basically what I finally did. Took a serious bath on that one. If ever offered one again in a trade, it'll have to be at charter arms
money, or no go.....

Attached Images

Screenshot_20211208-062533~2.jpg (25.7 KB, 197 views)

I have a 986 and a 617 both with the "lock" and the quality and function is "all S&W". The 617-6 shoots along side all of my other Mod 17's.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

My 4” 617 is excellent, absolutely no complaints. For me the presence of the lock is a psychological issue not a function one. If I had a choice though I’d gotten one without the lock but I traded a shotgun to my dealer and it was either the one with the lock or nothing.

My wife has a 317 with the lock and she’s had no issues relating to the lock. It doesn’t even bother her because she has no history of shooting pre lock. The lock seems to mostly bother us old guys.

With just a quick count, I would like to say that I've owned about 8 S&W revolvers. Of those 8, 2 are the newer models that are stainless steel with the lock. While I am not fond of the lock, I do have to say that they have the most fantastic, smoothest double action trigger pull that I've ever experienced! I don't know if I could acquire a blued carbon steel model, but I am impressed enough that I would consider acquiring a 610 to partner with my Model 57! Plus, contrary to the numerous reports that I've seen about poor QC, I have never had to send a new revolver back to the factory for corrective repairs!

__________________
Judge control not gun control!

My experience only spans 100 years of 45 ACP revolvers but I must say the long actions (pre 1950) were sweet but the short actions (post 1950) are sweeter. Sweetest are the ones with the locks! Nice crisp action,great accuracy and decent finish. And I am not worried about carrying and scuffing them.

Yes, some folks I trust have had issues with the storage lock. If you are worried, delete the lock and replace it with a plug or nothing. No big deal, but don’t let it cause you to miss an opportunity to buy a S&W!

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

My last 5 Smiths have the lock and I've never had a problem with it. I also know no one that has had a problem.

If you don't like it you can take it out. It's a very easy operations and only takes a few seconds.

I'd have no problems buying a lock version. Even with heavy loads it will not interfere with your shooting day so go for it.

Several years ago I bought a 638 w/the lock new at a gunshow. It was a great little gun, never a problem w/the lock regardless of what kind of ammo I ran. The lock’s appearance bothered me so much I traded it away and not a day goes by that I haven’t regretted that decision.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Modern CNC machines can consistently hold tighter tolerance then the old manual machines did. But with parts being held to tighter tolerance there is less hand fitting involved. Which general saves money. And on the average should make for higher quantity overall. I am sure there are some old guns that can shot better groups. I have never had any issues with the newer revolvers. I often like the finish better on older guns. Many of my older guns don't hold as tight of groups as my newer ones do.

__________________
balin
NRA Life Member

glad to hear all the good reports on the new models. I will definitely pay more attention to the guns previously out of my consideration. I still like the old ones, but it does open up a more available supply.

Thanks to all.

938

I haven't had any problems with any of the new S&Ws I've bought.

I have handled a couple of new S&W's and the fit finish were good. The actions felt very smooth but I can't get past the lock either. When Smith made room for the lock on the backside it lost a lot of it's aesthetic appeal to me. Minor change maybe but they just don't look right to me. I have about 15 pre lock models and will continue to buy only those unless I come across an exceptional deal

I only have two S&Ws with locks, an M22-4 and a 638-3. They were purchased new more than ten years ago. Both are fired regularly and I never really consider the lock on either as it hasn't been a problem. While all my older J-frames snubnose .38s that I've had for many years shoot well, I get noticeably smaller groups from the 638-3.

If you limit yourself to pre lock guns you are missing out on some fine firearms that will shoot as well as or more likely better than the early guns.

What's the purpose of the lock? (Sorry if it's a dumb question.) How does one ignore it?

Luck of the draw often. I had a 686 SSR and some nightguards that were absolutely perfect and smooth as butter, and I've seen plenty of modern smith's in the shops that should've never left the factory.

It's just frustratingly spotty QC. Modern manufacturing techniques can churn out absolutely amazing revolvers surpassing any efforts of yesterday, but only if you actually care about the final product.

I have looked at the Classics and new current production
Revolvers. They all have been nice.

The Fit and Finish that Computer Aided Machining has
provided make them outstanding. Also the Triggers
must have a little care when installed, they have nice
let offs in Single and Double action.

I would not pass them up if shopping for a New S&W.
Currently I’m considering the New Classic Model
27 .357S&W Magnum. It reminds me of my S&W
Mountain Guns which I shoot on a regular basis.

The New S&W Mdl 610 10mm/40S&W is being
considered also. I looked at 3, and all were nice,
without the S&W no no’s.

The Best to you and your Endeavors.

Attached Images

53F10606-BE3C-4424-86D1-C682ADAA242F.jpg (131.4 KB, 48 views)

I tried to ignore it, but just couldn't. Like dating a cute girl with a big wart on the end of her nose. Everything still works as expected, but can't help staring at the wart.

__________________
213th FBINA

Here's the definitive article about the internal lock. I wish S&W would offer more no-lock model variants like they do with the 642/442 and select others.

The History and Future of the Smith & Wesson Internal Lock - RevolverGuy.Com

I picked up a model 48 - 7 I think the dash # is right. Horrible trigger, fit and finish were OK, but not S&W quality. Got a lock delete kit from the guy on this forum and installed it. Super improvement on the trigger. Still sold the gun tho, just didn't look like a K22.

Well-stated! All of my revolvers are pre-lock. It's an aesthetic issue for me. That and the (to me) ugly hammer. Yeah, I'm a geezer set in his ways, but I won't judge those who like the "modern" guns.

I have a 21-4 that is one of my favorite guns a very high quality revolver-it has the lock I don't like it wish it was not there but it does not bother me much.

I wish Smith would reissue the 21-4!

No complaints over here, since I ordered my Model 27 from the factory in early 2018.

Reliability wise it’s a non-event; I only have so far about 3,000 rounds total through it, mostly 180gr. magnum handloads, 200 rounds of .38/44 handloads, 100 rounds of 230gr .38 +P handloads, and a couple boxes of Buffalo Bore 180gr load.

Endshake is a smidge over 0.001-inches, cylinder-gap is .0045-inches, and cylinder-throats average about .3575-inches. Haven’t bothered to slug the barrel. Accuracy is far greater than my eyesight and trigger control, I can randomly cloverleaf three shots at 15 yards on a good day.

Attached Images

C5BB9673-21D7-439E-8F06-0288DDA9EBDA.jpg (65.3 KB, 48 views)

Great article. Very enlightening.

__________________
213th FBINA

You mean like Bryco, Jennings, Rohm, or maybe even Heritage? I have a hard time imagining anyone thinking Smith & Wesson revolvers were of the same quality as those, but I've been surprised before.

Picked up a new 586-8 in 2019 on gunbroker. Pretty darn good looking revolver. The fit ,finish and machining very well done.
The rear sight had to be moved quite a ways left to adjust windage. Most Smith's I've had in the past only required a few clicks either way. The SA pull had a bit of creep , reminded me of my old GP100. The gun shot fairly well but not on par with my older 686-4. Was not long afterwards I picked up a 586-4 and it was a lot better shooter for me. Luckily I was able to sell the 586-8 on consignment earlier this year and actually made money on the sale.

Picked up a 617-5 in a local auction this year. Had the lock and MIM. It is very well put together. And shoots extremely well! In this case I would part with my older 617-1 before the newer 617-5.

So in my experience I had one scenario where I preferred an older pre lock Smith to a newer model and liked the newer lock model 617-5 over the older 617-1.

Thank you for the link and info. Would a Model 649-3 357Mag be of pre-lock vintage? Just so I know what to look for. Although, I would take a Model 649-5 357Mag with a lock if it came to me at the right price. Since it looks like the lock is part of the hammer system, why couldn’t one just replace the hammer with an earlier one and remove the lock mechanism?

I have a model 57 and 58 in .41 Magnum and both have the locks. They shoot just as good as any of my other 57's and 58's. The bluing is not that same old beautiful deep color, but they look just fine and work just fine.

That's the most important point, function.

A Model 57 and a Model 58 WITH storage locks? Please post a photograph.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I'm "old school" only when it comes to my strong like for revolvers; so, the locks don't bother me as long as my gun shoots. But I understand the purist's point of view as far as the hole on the side goes, along with the way the guns are made and how the parts are made. So, being an "outsider" to the handgun world I just want gun to go bang when I aim & pull the trigger. My 629-6 is a real nice shooter compared to my small assortment of handguns. It shoots pretty nice and where I aim it, so there's that. Only the old K22 shoots better (closer to the black round thing in the center of the target.) I sometimes compare guns & gun guys to cars & car guys. Heaven forbid there be an automatic tranny on the Mustang GT, but with an auto, you can grab a can of beer or pop and drink it while you fly down the track without worrying about having to shift. I think I lost my train of thought here...sorry.

__________________
Waiting For The Sun.

BTW, Herky Bird, that is a beautiful gun you have there!

__________________
Waiting For The Sun.

The guys at Brownells have a good video about this subject. Boils down to older are more collectible, new ones are better shooters. Nobody likes the locks.

Smyth Busters: Are Old Smith & Wessons Better Than New Ones? - YouTube

I must be an "appearance heretic". On L-frames, I prefer the curve of the post-lock frame below the hammer to the pre-lock frames.

I can't own a gun that says "Please read the instructions" on it or locks so that if I can't find the key it's useless.


It is esthetics, but mostly I'm bothered by the caving of companies that further the insanity of the litigious society we have become and do NOTHING to further firearms safety.


Where's my key?

__________________
When words fail, music speaks.

My experience with my model 69 was very good, it has become my go to carry when hiking or hunting. Every aspect of mine is quality, trigger is as good as it gets....Maybe "expectations" is the key here....

I currently have five modern (post lock) revolvers in my safe—a 986 PC, a 60 PC, 460 XVR, a 327 PC, and 617.

These are all superb firearms. The 986 had its out-of-the-box problems (gritty trigger and a loose front sight), but S&W was quick to deal with those problems and it performs wonderfully now.

I'd also add that not every old gun is good. I've had plenty of hand ejectors dating back to the 1920's that were absolutely forgettable to shoot.

I don't love the lock, but I'm not going to part with an otherwise good revolver because of it. And if someone wants to sell their post-lock gun to me at a loss, then I'll happily accommodate that wish.

Mike

I have a fairly new 629.

It's just as good by every measure of the Smiths I shot as a teenager 40 years ago.

Good to hear some positives on the newer models. Only thing I really don't like is the look created on the newer models longer slanted underlugs. Maybe they had to do that because of weight balance for recoil ?(does anyone know?), but the older models shorter slanted underlugs sure looked wickedly S&W A+ better imo....

Here are a few not so good pictures. I bought these all new when they were still on the CA gun roster when I lived there.
I didn't like the new style target grips on the model 57-6, so I installed some nice target grips from a 1980's model 57. I do like the looks of the 5 screws on the 57-6 and 58-1.
I forgot about my model 57-5 Mountain Gun having a lock also. These are all great shooting guns.

I recently bought a new M10-14 Classic. It appears to be perfect in all respects. Fit and finish. B-C gap is .005" and lockup is tight. DA trigger is heavy, but very smooth. Shoots as well as I can. If I could change anything, it would be a 3" barrel revolver, and I really don't have any use for the IL, so I don't use it.

73,
Rick

Our generation is eventually going to die off (hopefully not too soon) and the next generation of shooters will grow up with locks on their S&Ws.

Im betting they won't give a damn.

The lock, and opinions others have of it, doesn’t really concern me. I don’t particularly like it, especially in J-frames, but I can ignore it, easily. I’d guess the 69 was a “Friday afternoon” gun, or maybe you just spotted a 629 than was assembled by one of the company’s better “gunsmiths.” Who knows? The results could easily be reversed the next time you see two different guns. By far most of the comments I have seen on the Model 69s have been favorable.

Thank you for posting that photo and updating me on the Models 57 and 58. I tend to follow the 45 ACP revolvers and was not aware those two Models had progressed beyond -1!

I come here to share knowledge and to learn. Today, I learned! Thank you again,

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

My M69 had the absolute best out of the box trigger of any gun I have owned. All I did was pop off the side plate, flush out any grime and grit, re-lube and proceed to enjoy. Barrell has a few tooling marks but so far has shot well with anything I've tried in it.

While I am not a fan and own none I have two sons that own them and have had zero issues and just me fiddling with them clearly shows Smith quality. They are accurate. That said, I have been able to find non-lock pieces at, and often well below, locked pieces so that's where I will continue to roll.

This conversation has helped me conclude, I will buy the the gun I’m looking for with or without a lock. I have a model I’m looking for in a particular caliber, if the condition is good, and the caliber what I want then it will come home with me . LoL.