From the pics you can see why it went back to the Distributor, besides an over clocked barrel jamming the crane, 4 out 7 cylinders are scared from reaming, which means it will have trouble with ejecting.

So I ordered another one from a different source, hoping to get one good enough that I can send to T K Custom for double action only match trigger job.

Hoping to get one good enough to be repaired.

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	986-4A.jpg (215.5 KB, 565 views)

Bummer . I won’t buy any make revolver (except FA) nowadays unless I can examine it first . But with that said last month I bought a 629-6 that was made in December of 2021. It’s absolutely perfect in fit and finish . Whoever did the assembly took their time and did it right.

Good luck getting a good one! We had three of those sold when the shop was a s&w dealer. All three came back and we refunded the buyers. They were very good customers.

The dealings we had with s&w over those guns, led to us no longer being a s&w dealer. All three had over clocked barrels. Two of the three had lousy gritty triggers. And the 3rd was out of time, from the factory.

The Performance Center went out of business in 2014. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

The poor quality has been going on for a long time, maybe as they move to the new factory they can fix the problem. Sadly my expectations are to simply get one good enough that T K Custom says it is worth fixing.

Got my ship notice for second one, coming out of Ohio, waiting on the Fedex pickup call for the first one

It's sad. S&W has some cool modern stuff I'd be into but QC is just abysmal.

Sad & pathetic! Just another explanation as to WHY used gun prices on similar vintage models has remained so high.

Revolver manufacturing will stay in Springfield, and as I understand, there won't be any changes when it comes to revolver production. Apparently some of the machinery is very old and the current plan is to not change a running system.

I just received a 442 as a warranty replacement for my cracked frame early 642 and I am very pleased. No issues with quality control I can see. Shoots to point of aim. And no lock !

That is beyond a terrible job. Who ever sent that out the door should be fired.

Unfortunately, the days of craftsmen building revolvers and pistols is long gone. Revolvers and pistols are now put together by assembly line workers. This works well with the pistols made with MIM and plastic parts, but revolvers, even with MIM lockwork parts, still need attention to detail during the construction process.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

It is pathetic and a shame that revolver ever left the factory, my 986 suffered from light strikes and was returned to the factory and repaired/adjusted under warrenty. It is the only new S&W revolver that I bought that has ever had an issue. From the negative feedback I hear and read from others, I consider myself fortunate that I have purchased several new revolvers and pistols from S&W without issues.

As each generation of the Company goes bye, their knowledge, skill level and commitment diminish. This seems to be happening to all industry in America, not just as S&W.

People SAY they are willing to pay more for quality goods but apparently that doesn't pan out as good as it sounds. In today's anti gun world that we live in, I truly believe that even the gun companies are much much more interested in quick profit than making heirloom quality guns. Combine the two and this is what we are dealing with. Quite honestly, with the exception of a very few small mom & pop sized companies, I don't see this changing.

My history with the 986 has been mixed.

My first 986 was a 5" (CWD9xxx) and I have had zero problems with it.

My second 986 was a 2 1/2" (KDD6xxx) and it had problems from day one. It would not fire more than 4 or 5 rounds from the 7 round cylinder. I changed out the factory "tuned" mainspring for a "standard" spring and this reduced the failure to fire rate to about 1 out of 12 rounds (different ammo didn't matter).

The gunsmith at the store where I bought the gun replaced the factory firing pin with a extended length firing pin and with these two fixes the gun is now working properly.

I understand that a certain number of mass-produced firearms will have problems but this is the third Performance Center gun that I have had issues with. I sent back my 586 and 1911 and they were fixed at no cost to me.

I am disappointed that the Performance Center doesn't have a much better quality control program.

I had a 986 that had only one problem. Difficulty extracting fired cases. I polished the chambers several times, but still had problems. Factory or handloads. I gave up and moved it along.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

The 986 I had was a dud.
The couple of hundred rounds went okay but then it started to fail to fire.
It got so bad as 5 or 6 per cylinder.
I replaced the firing pin with the extended pin from C&S. It helped a little. Finally i became tired of dealing with it and sold it off.

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N frameitis :-)

I have never seen chamfered chamber mouths before. Of course, I have not bought a new Smith since I got a first year .500. I could be I just never noticed before, but I'm pretty sure none of my guns have chamfered chamber mouths.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

My PC 686 has chamfers as part of the extra machining done for accepting moon clips.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

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Slava Ukraini!

I just bought 2 new smith revolvers a few months ago and they both had to go back for warranty work, 629 with machine marks up the front of the frame and a 329 with crooked forcing cone, punch marks from where they put in the pins on the barrel shroud and some anodizing issues. Just got them both back and they did a good job with them... should have been good out of the box but at least they fixed it.

Sure, where the cartridges are inserted in the cylinder, not where the bullets emerge. Ie the ball end, in S&W terms. Perhaps I did not correctly describe in my initial post.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

"...4 out 7 cylinders are scared from reaming,...)
__________________________________________

I'd be scared of reaming also.

I just sent back a 438 that my gunsmith noticed had a bad barrel. Grooves and lands were messed up. Smith sent it back without a new barrel and stated that it "met specifications". Makes you wonder what the spec is...

I cannot sell something with a known issue, so to the back of the safe it goes.

I was just looking over my notes on my 986 . My memory is a little fuzzy but I had to put an EFP on mine. (Extended firing pin). The brand i used was cylinder and slide. The original measured .489". And the EFP was .511".
I don't remember if it was because of the bobbed hammer or not.
But it seems to me, because of the extra space between the cylinder and the recoil shield needs because of the moonclip only setup, that this would be problematic in that area, seeing as that the firing pin pokes out just a bit to hit the primers.

Depending on the different manufacturers that make ammo, maybe EFP's should be installed to forego any problems.

My 986 (5" barrel) had reliability problems from the start. With hard primers, (Winchester and Fiocchi) I had at least had one misfire from light primer strikes with almost every cylinder. Sending it back to Springfield did nothing so I took it to a gunsmith in Stillwater and that helped a great deal. He installed a longer firing pin and a heavier mainspring, and the last time I shot it had one or two misfires per hundred with WWB and is 100% with Remington and Federal as they have softer primers.

That was a couple of years ago and due to various factors, I haven't shot much, and the 986 not at all. It'll be a few weeks at best, but the 986 and my 610 are two of the guns I'll shoot first.

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Let's be careful out there

I was looking at a 5" a while back at a local gun shop. I told them I would be back in a couple months to look again, and it would probably still be there. I thought their price was pretty high. It looked pretty good with a cursory examination but now I will look a lot closer, especially for the clocked barrel.

A second 986 was delivered today, it is a KEEPER, barrel straight, all the cylinders are smooth with no galling marks, timing is good. The crane is a little tight where the crane yoke locks to the frame ahead of the cylinder gas ring. Which requires a firm closing of the cylinder, it would wear in quickly, but I'm sending it off to T K Custom for a complete action job, double action hammer, and replace the Mim parts.

He will check yoke alignment, chamber the cylinders and deliver a 4# DA trigger, then I'll mount my favorite sight EOTECH xps2.

I'm hooked on the holographic sights, no parallax at any distance, and reticle stays sharp while focused on the target. No sweet spot for eye placement, you can watch many pistol shooters doing the head bob trying to find the dot. For me the Eotech's are the fastest sights for transitions.

I like the rubber grips, but I've got chunk of dark cocobolo, that I got from Hogue, cut on the inside but left blank on the outside. Since I'm lefthanded I put a thumb rest on the right side to reduce muzzle rise.

The gun is for man-on-man plate rack match with a center dueling popper to pick the winner. We shoot winners against winners and losers against losers for about an hour, then we shoot random pair single elimination shoot offs until we have winner. Takes about 2 hours and around 100 rounds of ammo. Every Tuesday afternoon we shoot same format with different shaped/sized plates at different distances and different guns, auto, revolvers, pcc and 22lr rifles, and two stage steel challenge. So I've got guns built for every style of match. Great practice, we vary the start position, gun unload hands on table, loaded aimed at start midpoint, sometimes a reload is mandatory, also gun on table shooter facing up range.

This makes getting on the first target fast essential. Distance varies 15 to 25 yards, targets from 8" to 4", round, bowling pin, 4" wide mini poppers.

It is free match and club members can bring a guest, but fairly intimidating to beginners, you get to recover your brass.

Ya, don’t think I’m rushing out to buy any new Smith revolvers today.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

A 4 lbs trigger pull in double action? Is that correct?

Many 686 internationals have uncentered barrels too , I am pretty wary of new S&W offerings now
I do not buy $1000 firearms without putting on my glasses anymore
I’m not slagging S&W , my favourite revolver is a modern smith , I’m just saying you can’t trust them to be good without verifying for yourself
I also would be interested in a 4lb da trigger , maybe be a typo ?

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the rules? there are no rules

I have to say my 686-4 is about close to perfect fit an finish as can be found.

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John

Well things worked out well, Vizards Guns worked with me, sent a prepaid Fedex label to return the defective gun.

4# Double action pull with Federal primers
Evolution IV Revolver Hammer Kit

Also

ACTION TUNING JOBS - S&W | TK Custom Store

That is a pre-MIM gun I've had lots of old Smith's and they were all beautiful, the blue guns were the best.

Then things changed

Just found this out talking with T K Customs revolver builder, the titanium cylinders are troublesome, seems that some had galling in cylinders, grooves cut by chips and those cylinders are hard to eject and can't be fixed by polishing.

Another thing to watch out for when buying, bring your reading glasses and a high output flashlight.

My new Classic series 586 appears to be perfect. The fit and finish, as well as the trigger, are even better than many older Smiths.

I can't help but wonder if some models are more complicated for Smith to manufacture than others, or it it just hit or miss across the board. Then again, the 586/686 has been relatively the same for 40 years now. Perhaps the newer designs and materials present more problems. Either way, it is not a good look for S&W quality.

I unfortunately can't get past the lock, and evidently many others feel the same way, because I got an actually beautiful 586 in a trade with a friend a few years ago but the lock bothered me, but when I went to sell/trade it, not one dealer at the show I took it to wanted anything to do with a lock S&W. Said they just sit and collect dust......

Attached Images

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Apex Tactical Specialties, Inc.
715-D Santa Maria Avenue
Baywood Park, CA 93402
Tel 805.528.5250
Fax 805.528.8973
[email protected]

[email protected]

Okay, here goes my schpeel...
For most shooters the MIM parts will work wonderfully. Down to five pounds, most people would not feel any difference between the forged hammer/trigger and the MIM counterparts.

When you reduce trigger pulls below that threshold, surface finish and uniformity become more important. Go down to the 4.5 lb range- the way a part holds its finish greatly affects the quality of the pull. The spring forces involved in a +6 lb. trigger pull will conceal nearly all surface irregularity interactions within the system. How many times have you replaced the factory springs, polished surfaces and reassembled the gun only to find that the heavy factory pull masked the fact that the cylinder yoke was not aligned with the frame boss-which caused the trigger pull to be inconsistent on one or more chambers?

The MIM parts have several benefits- cost of manufacture, acceptably close tolerances and minimal fitting for the assembler. The shortcoming for me is seen on several fronts. First, the injection molded part doesn't have the denser grain structure that a forged or even barstock part would have. On my ICORE revo, I have already worn down one cylinder stop to where it had to be replaced. The flattening can be seen even after 5-600 rounds. Now check out a Smith revolver that used the older forged cylinder stop(assuming that the gun has had equivalent handling). The top of the cylinder stop will show a bright spot, but the wear pattern should be noticeably smaller.
I'm pretty sure that most pistolsmiths and do-it- yourselfers will polish the contact surface on the underside of the rebound slide. After reassembly and perhaps some shooting, take a look at the contact surface again- the wear site will usually appear as a dulling in the polished area with a lengthwise scratch pattern. Try using an older forged part with the same polishing care. The wear pattern will usually take longer to appear, and many times using the forged rebound slide will affect the feel of the trigger pull, especially on the return. The difference in drag will often allow the use of a lighter return spring.

The second point is surface deviation from flat. In this case, the hammer sides where the sideplate and hammer pin boss contact around the hammer pivot. A hammer thats sides are stoned perfectly flat relative to the contact surfaces will float uniformly on a thin layer of lubricant and reduce drag during the hammer's travel. On both the forged and MIM hammers rarely have I found sides that polished flat. The non-MIM hammers that did yielded exceptional trigger pulls below 4 lbs.
The same is true of the trigger sides. The contact surfaces on the old style serrated triggers which are .265 wide have been typically flatter than others in my experience. If you find one that has both sides flat, parallel and hard chromed, glassy smooth 3.5-4.0 lb pulls are within your grasp with less effort.

My prototype steel 627 revo is running WELL below 3.5 lbs using my hammer and forged hard chromed factory trigger. Try as I might, I could not do this with the MIM counterparts. I designed the hammer because I was tired of spending so much time trying to make factory hammers perform the way I wanted them to. The same philosophy holds true for cylinder stops, triggers and rebound slide assemblies I am redesigning which will operate in the sub 3.5 lb range. The Smith design is very good... I just want to see how much better I can make it work for me.

Again I must reiterate that most will have no need for my replacement parts or for that matter my trigger work. There are many pistolsmiths around the country that can provide the consumer with VERY good trigger work at a modest price. Many of you reading this post can probably perform the same work with the excellent results.
My parts and work are directed towards those looking to push the edge of the envelope of competition and those who for whatever reason don't have the hand strength to activate even a 6 lb trigger yet have the desire to participate in the revolver friendly shooting sports.

I won’t buy any make revolver (except FA) nowadays unless I can examine it first .

More good news TKC inspected my gun, turns out mine is a little tight on crane fit and cylinder gap, hammer and triggers have a little bushing pin drag but are all centered no frame rubs. So the new internals and tuning should go smoothly and only 6 weeks.

I can relate, check out my front sight before and after 150 rounds.

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I buy a lot of semi autos and rifles and shotguns and rifles but almost NEVER buy new revolvers. Seems like I prefer the classic, older smith and wesson version. I did treat myself to a new 986 as a reward for surviving a hospital stay that I hope to never revisit. (Just one of those things that you promise yourself to buy when all that is done - you get the idea).

Bought a 986. Had light strikes. After some reluctance and hesitation, I sent back to factory. A month or so later, it returned and had less light strikes but had developed a nifty habit of slightly locking up after firing it occasionally. Went from 115gr berrys to 124 berrys and it seems to function better w virtually no light strikes. Guess it may have had something to do w the way the rounds were seating in the cylinder?

Either way, it is and was a bit of a disappointment (based on what I spent) when the double action trigger pull is compared to an original model 27 or 28 or my pre 29. (Yes, I know those are N frames but one would think that the feel has not gone backwards....) In my book, the 986 was really only meant to be shot in double action so it is a bit of a dissapointment in my book but is manageable assuming I keep reloading w/ 124gr which is a bit of a pain because i run 115 w just about everything else. (I do like the fact that I have 100% brass retention though due to the moon clips but I don't have to do anything special w/ my 625 or 610 to get them to run right, not sure why it is necessary w/ the 986.

These old eyes can't see any issue, what is wrong?

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U.S. Coast Guard, retired CPO

That's pretty sad that a piece like that made it out the factory door. It is indeed a pitiful state of affairs for S&W that 1- they maintain their installation of that idiotic lock on their guns decades after the Clintons have left office, negating the drug deal they cut that brought the lock into being in the first place and 2- for all the wonders and amazements of modern manufacturing supposedly being able to eliminate the complications, variations and stacking of tolerances that render hand fitting and assembly of firearms such an expensive proposition, S&W apparently hasn't invested in the whiz bang computer geniuses to program their tooling to do just that...

I'm presently considering a Manurhin MR-73, waaaaaaay more expensive than I can afford but I may sell a couple older S&Ws I have to offset the purchase so I'll have at least one best quality revolver that I know will likely never need repair as long as I'm alive. Just think if Manurhin would field their revolver in .22lr, .45 acp and Colt and .44 mag in barrel lengths 3", 3 1/2", 4", 5" and 6". Now THAT would upset the market, I think.

I’m guessing the blade isn’t supposed to drift sideways 3/32” by itself?

So today I talked with my gunsmith about the second 986 I bought hoping to get one that is good enough to fix.

Good news is that it is fixable, but I want to share a couple of pics to see if anybody knows what jig/tool could have been dropped into the barrel that would have dinged the crown and firing pin hole.

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	Firing Pin Bushing.jpg (39.1 KB, 49 views)
	Claude Crown.jpg (34.0 KB, 56 views)

Impaired worker.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

Like him or hate him is has a point.
F#@K Smith & Wesson!!!...Customer Service FAIL! Unsafe Product? - YouTube

Just saw the video. Hey, maybe thats why we don't sell full size M&P's in California? Lol!

Even i have to admit, they're customer service is somewhat lacking.

I called recently for a missing lock washer for a comp cap for a revolver. They said I had to take them the whole gun just to replace the caps lock washer. Because, "its part of the barrel....".

I'm glad I have a sense of humor. I went to the hardware store locally and bought one. (Lock washer)

:/