<crickets>

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AKA SixToEight

I think I just saw a unicorn run by.

It's all about the green. Plastic guns are cheap to make and everybody is using them. The profit margin on a revolver is less and the only people who buy them is the niche market that is into shooting, which is a small segment of the guns sold. I'm afraid that revolver production has gone the way of blue, carbon steel and cut checkered wood grips.

It will be interesting to see how both S&W and Ruger do going forward as they report declining revenues which their shareholders don't want to hear. Do they keep up with the high volume and cheaper to produce vs. the more profitable lower volume i.e. the traditional revolvers? IMO

I hate to be agreeing with this but true. I am able steel and wood fan, and even when S&W does come out with something interesting, it will be in that hideous stainless with rubber grips. Bring out a blued 986 no lock, and I will be in line.
I will also say I feel we are close to market saturation with plastic frame autos, and considering how well colt is doing with reintroduced revolvers, perhaps S&W will get the memo?

Doubtful S&W will get the memo. As far as I've read the only revolver manufacturing is in their original plant in Massachusetts. Agreed with what has been said here. The semi-autos are the bigger money makers, not revolvers...

Personally. I hope they do not make any new or increase production of revolvers. The quality of their offerings is sad. I’ll just stick to buying used Smiths from a time when S&W had quality machinists and smiths and did not rely on the public to be the QC department.

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Thanks,

Patrick

S&W could set up a completely new, modern, small volume revolver shop at the new location, focusing on high quality high price offerings competing with Colt/Manurhin/Spohr/Korth. Even if they wouldn't sell all that many, the halo effect alone would be worth it.

I don't know what they pay their parts assemblers, but perhaps if they paid a better rate they may get better people. I spent 3 car payments on a beautiful M 27-9, blue & wood 4", put 30 rounds through it of .38 spl., and the forcing cone got a chunk taken out of it. 2 months later I get it back, and a totally new problem with the timing or something on 4 of 6 chambers. I really hope to shoot it someday. It's sitting on some shelf back at S&W again. 1st trip took two months; maybe in another month I'll get it back working.

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Waiting For The Sun.

Meanwhile, Colt is cranking out $1500 revolvers and selling every one. Wait til a .454 Anaconda gets announced.

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Rule of law, not a man.

I used to look forward to coverage of the SHOT show...not anymore. Most is about the "newest, bestest, mostest, "tactical" weapons", that companies are producing. Honestly, I would not be surprised to find some company claim that they have improved the AR platform tremendously by changing a hex head screw to a torx screw, or offering a never seen before, custom shade of FDE stock; maybe offering a 32 position collapsible stock so if you happen to be wearing an extra heavy tee shirt you can get that "perfect" fit. It seems that there are 100's of "improvements" on the basic Glock style ignition system that have appeared throughout the years. One thing I will give Colt a lot of credit for is that they don't have a tupperware handgun, their AR line has not changed that much, and they have reintroduced/manufactured new revolvers. From the way the new Python and Anaconda are selling, seems like the "old" steel and wood revolvers are not dead. Just my opinion.

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Have Canon, Will Travel

How many more different ways are there to build a revolver, especially ways that improve it? IMO, S&W should set their Wayback Machine to 1960. Unfortunately, what sold for $65 back then would require a mortgage to be affordable today.

The one thing they could do is make a better DA trigger pull from the factory. No one has done that yet, even Korth, Manhurin, Janz, etc. That would put them ahead of everyone else in the revolver market.

I have invented 2 new actions based on the S&W platform that are better than any of them. One is a drop in hammer kit, and one is a super light action that the hammer and trigger only goes back about 1/2 the normal amount. These actions make people want a revolver. If I can do it, S&W should be able to do it. It wouldn't cost any more to make them like that, either.

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protocalldesign.com

Police department and military contracts are where the S&W money is being made. They pump out the M&P's and ship them by the pallet around the world. The next market is self defense. People who are not shooters who are buying a gun to carry or put in the sock draw want cheap, reliable and easy to use, in that order. They drive the J frame sales and the plastics that are designed for ease of use. That's why you see more J frame revolvers in the line up than other styles and it's why they put so much effort in developing the "E-Z" line for example. Sport shooting is a small part of the picture and collecting is even less. Lets face it, not a lot of people want to spend what it costs to make a high end revolver. Colt is riding the Python wave by producing a gun that has been in demand but not available for a long time. It won't take them long before the demand is met and sales tail off. It's not like there going to get any police contracts for them. Then they will reduce or stop production all together. I doubt there are a lot of the brain trust at S&W talking about how much profit the company will make if they introduce a carbon blue, hand fitted $2000 model 27. It's the law of supply and demand and simple economics and it's what keeps them in business.

Personally, I’d like to see S&W bring back several of the classics ( for me I’d like to see a 22-4 4”) in select revolvers and select Gen 3 semi autos.

Agree the money is in the volume polymer striker guns enable, but to me S&W is the iconic revolver manufacturer

My wish may not be yours :-)

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Guns + Dogs= Bliss

Does the X-Frame in .350 Legend count?

Not that I expect a stampede for that one, but it is new and I don't recall seeing it before the ball dropped.

Honestly, I'm a revolver guy and a 642 is the only S&W I've bought new since they went to 3 digit model designations ("dashes" not included.)

I was tempted by a 610 just before COVID but passed since I had just gotten rid of all my 10mm/.40 reloading dies and components.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

The IL is is now not needed in revolvers, as Colt and Ruger do not have them and I have not read of any lawsuits reguarding revolvers. If they only made new T.V. shows and movies with someone using a revolver, it might increase production and new revolvers might start to be mfg. In this post I am only stating that I like revolvers.

All about the market demographics. As kids the current under 40 watched action movies featuring high capacity semi's, whereas we were outside twirling our Roy Rodgers six shooters and arguing about whose turn it was to play the Indian.
Ask a newbie to guns if they'd rather spend the time to master a heavier, all metal six shooter that requires practiced proficiency to reload quickly, or a point and spray semi that can be reloaded with eyes closed at half the cost.
Costs Glock $100 or so to assemble a plastic pistol that is in global demand, vs Colt or Smith building a quality stainless revolver with a limited demand.
The older, avid revolver collectors with the coin to drive up prices at auction and buy those new Colt's? Makes one wonder what that demand will be like 20 or 30 years from now when they've aged over.

I don't know... Kimber did a pretty good job of coming out with a nice new iteration of the revolver platform. They are still selling well. I think it is possible, but S&W carries a lot of financial baggage.

Maybe they got tired of reading that only their revolvers made before 1964 were worth anything?

Its over. Find a used Smith or buy plastic

I’d love to see Smith make a 41 mag version of the 69. A model 71 maybe?

Based on what I am seeing at shows, auction sites and EEs, used S&W revolver prices are increasing and will likely continue to do so; it's simple economics on a fixed quantity with increasing demand. I've done well in the S&W department, but the fact I used to turn my nose up at ~$250 NIB M-28s stings a bit... I *have* been doing this a while, however.

I'd buy a new Python 3 in.(have an old one) IF I didn't have spend an extra $200 for a decent rear sight.

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S&W Accumulator

They'd have to come up with something that starts with a "6" to stay in line with the model numbering system, if they make it from stainless steel.

Anyway, M57 didn't last that long, M58 died even quicker, and they tried again with the M657 and it even died, 18 years ago. I know they were N frames, but downsizing a .41 Magnum won't make it popular again, at least not enough for S&W to resurrect it again. They ought to call it Lazarus if they do.

Don't get me wrong, I love .41 magnum, and have two of them, but then I'm not trying to make money on them. Not me, I just spend money on them.

S&W had one era not too long ago where they were issuing new models and new variations every month. Was that the 1990s? Early 2000's?

The rear sight works fine, but looks cheap. I can live with it since I rarely adjust the sights more than once.

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Rule of law, not a man.

I can tell you that when I show up for off-duty / retired range with a wheel gun (or two) I am looked at like I am a dinosaur. With some justification.

Anyway, M57 didn't last that long, M58 died even quicker, and they tried again with the M657 and it even died……..





But they live on, in my safe. The 58 is sporting the wrong grips, but I do have a correct set.

Visited the LGS yesterday and took a look at the Colt Python and King Cobra. They are beautifully built pieces. I’ve been a Smith fan since I was about 10 years old, but the next couple revolvers I buy will be Colts.

If a 454 Colt comes along, I’ll have to buy it. I’d think it would be called the Titanoboa though.

Revolvers are an expensive proposition all around. Everything about them is expensive. You need to reload to remotely afford shooting any volume out of them, and that isn’t a cheap proposition anymore.

Plastic fantastics are drastically cheaper and the ammo is drastically cheaper, you don’t need to reload to shoot quite a bit out of them.

I garner a ton of interest at the range from all ages when a 44 or bigger comes out, the kaboom and fireball get their attention, but after answering a few questions, the “I can’t afford that” or “Reloading scares me”rears it’s ugly head. The 20-30 ages are the worst, as soon as I try and explain the benefits of reloading, they’re gone.

With the pontificating out of the way, I wonder if the Trr8 style at a cheaper price would rekindle interest? It’s tactical looking.

I have had plastic but an done with that stuff. I will leave it for others. If you think wheelguns draw a crowd you ought to see the looks when I show up at the range with my 1886 Winchester and break out the cast bullet 45/70 ammo. A lot of the newbs just cannot seem to believe what they see. And when a big cast bullet slaps some 100 yard steel their mouth is open.

Certain kinds of dinosaurs get a lot of respect. Just be one of those.

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protocalldesign.com

This right here. Bring back a a couple of quality classics every year for a limited run. Show that you actually give a rat's rear about quality and tradition. You will make money on them.

Apparently that's too much to ask of S&W.

I don't keep up with all this, but doubt "market saturation of plastic(?) frame autos" will be reached anytime in the near future or maybe even distant future. I don't shoot them and have never owned one, but they seem to be the predominant pistol on gun ranges these days, at least the one I visit regularly.

Like the variety of hot sauces in Texas, it appears there is always a demand and room for at least one more such pistol.

$1500.00 for a revolver that likely will seldom shot and even less often carried for self defense. How well is the Python made? I wonder if it is built to the same standards as a new Colt SAA 45 Colt I brought that had .457” cylinder throats which according to Colt was “within factory specs” for a “collectable” gun.

Meanwhile Taurus has become the manufacturer of revolvers for the working class.

My feed store yesterday had a Taurus Model 608, 357 Magnum, 3” barrel, matte blue finish and wood laminated grips for $369.00.

States like California are aggressively banning guns, pushing restrictions on semi-auto firearms and banning magazines that hold more than 10 rounds along with reducing the budget for Police Departments. As more and more people are coming to realize the understaffed Police will not be there to protect them they are buying what guns are available. Revolvers so far have not been restricted so there is a big market for them.

I rarely see revolvers at my range, except for people I know. Revolvers are still selling, at least the few popular models, but people are not shooting them. It is becoming a niche, like cars with manual transmissions, buying music on CDs, or something similar.

They are still collectible, and people hang on to them up until estate sales happen, but not popular at the range.

The most likely reason you are not seeng revolvers on the shooting range is because they are laying loaded somewhere inside the house such as in a nightside drawer patiently waiting for it’s call to duty.

Of course regional differences apply.

I saw someone shooting a snubnose revolver, probably a J-frame .38 at my gun club range about two years ago. In the fourteen years I've been a member, that's possibly the second revolver shooter I've seen aside from myself. I usually only shoot during the week. Maybe there are hordes of revolver guys on the weekends.

S&W is incapable of delivering a revolver of the quality that they had in the past. Through retirement and other attrition those skill sets have departed, which is sad. It’s easier and more profitable to mass produce polymer auto pistols. A design that they can continuously modify with forward cocking serrations, rose gold accents, flat triggers, to appeal to the tactical 26 cent crowd. Off and slap a laser etching of performance center on the side and you got yourself a 150.00 premium.

I love smith and Wesson, I really do. But my love is of the past.

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Thanks,

Patrick

If I were much younger and just getting into
handgun shooting and had an interest in
revolvers, I'd visit this site.

Then I'd read a thread such as this and never
buy any new revolver, especially not a S&W.

And years later, even if S&W improved, I'd still
remember all the negatives from this thread.

Thanks one and all.

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Ubi Est Mea

I really like this 27-9 since the factory repairs. No complaints whatsoever! I have it dialed in at 24 yards if I do my part.

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Waiting For The Sun.

Just delete or at least move the lock, especially on the Classic series.

I have no idea about S&W production and sales numbers, but I don't see J-frames sitting around long in LGS cases. My personal take is nothing is as reliable, carries easier and more comfortably than a small snubby. Not a "duty" type weapon for sure outside a back up role, but the average person wanting a CCW for self defense tend to go for them and could do a lot worse than a 442/642. I think there will always be a demand for them.

Funny how the uninformed thought it was bad news when CZ bought Colt.

Well what has been the good news?

Except for the IL, I'm not so sure that S&W has gone downhill. But the blame for that does not lie on those who observe the facts (or whatever), but rather on those who create them.

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Formerly Model520Fan

I've been way more impressed by offerings from other companies lately. Those 6-shot Taurus models look awesome for the price. The 6-shot Kimbers have been out several years. Recessed cylinder chambers, contoured frame and barrel. You can get them about 20 different ways - with or without hammer, 2", 3", or 4", combat or target sights. Different finishes.

I go to my LGS and revolvers are about 5% of displayed stock. The only guys looking are geezers like me. At the range, I'm the only one banging a revolver. Even my old cop buddies are stroking plastic bottom feeders.

But then only 9mm is reasonably priced so I understand that.

Curb appeal. Ruger makes some ugly D/A revolvers. S&W's internal lock screwed the looks. My carry is a 442 no lock. It's my favorite J frame, looks like a S/D gun should. Have a 3" Kimber DAO. Had QC problems, now fixed, it shoots great. Too bad it's stainless, revolvers should be black or blued. I may have to do something about that.

I just think revolver shooters are aging out. Kids want spray and pray. Plus revolvers have a learning curve for D/A shooting. Being harder to shoot does not appeal to the instant gratification needs of today. Then there's the cost, that's the bottom line.