I disagree. Having spent a significant amount of time with a Ransom Rest in a former life, I can say that even guns and ammo that are accurate even at 25 yards may not be so at 50 yards. 50 yard shooting should be the minimum distance to test for someone who is into precision pistol shooting or medium to large game.

Talking about the US? Sounds like it…

How large were the groups at 25 and 50 yards?

I use a rest on occasion but still have to line up the iron sights after every shot which limits accuracy. When I was reloading and trying to find the most accurate load for my 610 the best I could ever do was about 1.5 to 1.8 inches at 25 yards for a 6 shot group. It turned into a quest for a magic load that would shoot better but I never found it and concluded that was all the gun was capable of and good results for a revolver. The gun might have been more accurate than I could shoot it. And that was 30 years ago when I had an easier time focusing on the sights. Groups at longer ranges were proportional to the increase in range.

If you were getting sub 1 inch groups at 25 yards on a regular basis with the Ransom rest you could have been seeing things I would not have noticed.

The best way to find the accuracy without a Ransom rest is to put a low power crosshair scope on the gun. Shooting on a solid bench in a rested position gives you as much repeatability as you're going to get hand held.

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protocalldesign.com

I found that just about any load would group well at 25 yards so I didn't waste my time testing at that distance. I did nearly all of my testing at 50 yards. At 50 yards, over the years, I'd be happy with 2"-3" ten shot groups. Some "groups" were huge, like 8". The quality of the bullet base was a significant factor in accuracy. The Ransom Rest requires good technique and must be mounted on a wooden board which must be affixed to a super SOLID base. Are you saying that you fire one shot from the machine rest and then readjust the Ransom Rest?

No, I never owned a Ransom rest and used sandbags for a rest. As a result I was never sure if the groups I was getting were limited by the accuracy of the gun and ammo or my shooting ability.

The club I shoot at has one now and I think it is attached to one of the concrete benches. But I quit reloading before it was available and mostly shot off sandbags only when I was developing a load.

Hey calmex, was your ice cream business named, 31 Favors, by chance (or by necessity)?

I ran the franchise for San Miguel de Allende of "Helados Santa Clara". Interestingly enough, although there is a new and very small cubicle company store version of "Helados Santa Clara" in San Miguel near the city square today, if you Google Helados Santa Clara San Miguel de Allende many of the photos that will appear will be of my store -- which I closed in 2016 so I could return to Canada to finish working the required time to obtain a Canadian Pension.

This idea was planted in my mind by former Canadian Ambassador to Mexico David Winfield, who was visiting my store questioning me about how former U.S. Consul Phil Maher had handled some of the "unmentionable" problems that come up from time to time in a Consular Agency.

He suggested that going back to Canada to get the Canadian Pension -- no matter how disagreeable it may seem leaving the action of Central Mexico to return to a country that is socialist and boring -- would help me out in later life.

Whatever. Now that I'm 66 (but still look 33), and we're about ready to start heading back -- at least for the winters, to start, I think it was an acceptable idea. I miss Mexico terribly, but I never missed Canada at any time. I'm sorry, but some people are wired for more action and uncertaintly than others, and I guess I'm one of them. But the extra cash of that pension flowing in will sure help. Even though I'll only be making a "half pension" of around 1,200.00 CDN because I was away for half the required time to collect a full pension, I'll be making about what a normal middle-class income is in Central Mexico which is a great start (if you speak Spanish and pay what stuff really costs as opposed to what it often costs for foreigners).

You really need to get out more! Traveling to other countries can really give you a different perspective!

For an old PPC shooter this has been fascinating, and I can't recall when I have last seen it discussed. But I have seen it discussed, usually initiated by someone's certainty that shooting .38 in a .357 revolver would result in less accuracy. But this certainty was always without supportive documentation.

I shot PPC from the mid-60s to the mid-80s. In that time I talked to countless other PPC competitors and a few gunsmiths. I don't ever recall this subject being discussed by either the shooters or the gunsmiths, and these were the two groups one would expect to be most attentive to such concerns.

One thing I did hear frequently from PPC shooters was they had or were having competition guns built on .357 K frame revolvers to get the perceived additional robustness of a .357 K frame over a .38 spl K frame.

For me it was immaterial since I had both of mine built up on Ruger Six series revolvers, which, in general circulation, only came in .357 magnum. Several shooters I knew who were having revolvers built on Colt Pythons considered the issue immaterial; they wanted the snake.

By far the most used revolvers were Smith K frames, since the L frames were not introduced until (IIRC) 1980. Most of the gunsmiths that I knew of would build up a revolver on a Smith, Ruger or Colt frame, although some did not offer the Colt option. They would also build one up on a customer's revolver. If one purchased a PPC revolver built up on a K frame, that would be a blue .38 frame as that was the least expensive to source.

That soon evolved to the option of a stainless steel frame (and barrel) since that was strong shooter preference.

That was what I chose to do. Even in the dry climate of CA, many of the matches were held during the summer months in extremely hot locations. Sweating was unavoidable. The corrosion resistance of stainless steel, as well as its lack of a blue finish to wear off, meant that even the highest mileage guns looked new if they received reasonable care.

My two Rugers look almost identical until one looks extremely closely. Only one did all the shooting though. I had had the second one built up in case the first one had a problem, but that never happened. Only in stainless could two revolvers with such widely varying usage still look virtually identical.

Thanks gents for a look back at some great days.

I’ve never seen enough difference to make a difference in any practical application except, maybe, bullseye matches at the Olympics.

I’ve never noticed a difference.

This question has been hashed out by various gun writers as long as the .357 Magnum has existed, which is about 88 years! The consensus has always been that there is no discernible difference in accuracy when shooting .38 Special in .357 Magnum revolvers when compared to dedicated .38 Special revolvers.


The shortest answer is NO, there is usually no discernible difference in accuracy! This has gotten to the point after so many years and discussions that it can be relegated to the STUPID QUESTION category!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

This is a fun thread! Thanks 6strings for the swedish link.

Calmex is a real Yosemite Sam. Gracias por los cuentos! Espero que siguas adelante con su heladeria en San Miguel.

I think that there are too many variables to control in order to determine whether the .357 cylinder loses accuracy shooting .38 sp.

Just based on the anecdote that expensive competition rifle barrels behave differently based on temperature ( as in shooting rounds to get the barrel warm and singing) not to mention exactness of bullet weights and powder grain and final cartridge weight and environment variables etc etc

The biggest variable being the human marksman.

At best I think an average consensus can be gathered.

All very interesting perspectives and revolver samples shared.

Short answer is no. For one example my most accurate handgun is my Model 28. It is of no consequence whether it is 38 or 357.