I currently own two 696's. The one I will carry has alway shot superbly. I recently put two bullets through the same hole and the third about 1/2 inch away, at 15 yards. My other 696 seems to want to shoot a 2 1/2 inch to 3 inch group at 15 yards. Sometimes a little bigger. What should be expected for accuracy out of these little gems??? I was shooting Buffalo Bore 255 gr lead bullets.

I currently own two 696's. The one I will carry has alway shot superbly. I recently put two bullets through the same hole and the third about 1/2 inch away, at 15 yards. My other 696 seems to want to shoot a 2 1/2 inch to 3 inch group at 15 yards. Sometimes a little bigger. What should be expected for accuracy out of these little gems??? I was shooting Buffalo Bore 255 gr lead bullets.

Check the focing for fouling, burrs or other damage. Make sure the cylinders are clean and clear and make sure the bore is not leaded.
Finally check the barrel crown for burrs or other damage.

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SWCA 1932 SWHF 135

Or sell the inaccurate one for big bucks on one of the auction sites.

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Dick Burg

That's exactly what I did!! I am now down to one!

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ken
SWCA #1959

Found the problem.(Thank Toyman) I have two 696's that are tack drivers (Now). My elk hunting partner insisted on having one, so I found another for him about a year ago. He is an accomplished shooter, but not so experienced with revolvers. He told me his wouldn't hold a 3 inch group. I found another 696 and bought it this week. I invited him out and told him that I would trade with him and then peddle his if we couldn't make it shoot. He had shot several boxes of lead ammo through it and never cleaned the cylinder. He cleaned the barrel, but not the cylinder. After a 1/2 hour of scrubbing and brushing the lead out of the cylinder and forcing cone, it is back to a 1 inch group. One group put 4 of 5 in one ragged hole. I scrubbed the lead out of my other gun with the same result and I have put less than 50 rounds thru it. It seems that after about 15 rounds of lead bullets, the accuracy starts to fade. WHEN YOU SHOOT LEAD BULLETS, GET THE LEAD OUT!!!! He is one VERY happy camper again. Now I have 3 of these stupid 696 no dashers.......terrible problem.

Hi Lonnie, I am the one that sold that 696 to your friend through you and it was a tack driver while I had it, but I didn't shoot lead. So take heed all, as Lonnie said, get the lead out!!

I've shot lead ONLY for a couple decades.

Rarely I come across some inferior bullet from some unknown-till-too-late caster, who makes their slugs too-soft.

I have had no leading issues with some very soft SASS loads even in the Holy Black ...(in the 14 Brinell range so I'm told).

I have one old batch of 230 RN 45 cast that will gum up anything I shoot it in. Perhaps it's the lube, I don't know. In any case, they all are going back in the melting pot.

I have SASS revolvers that have never developed the ring you describe in multi-hundreds of rounds.

Certainly is nice to find an easy solution to this kind of problem.

Take a look at other cast lead products. Laser-cast for example, is a hard lead that has never caused this kind of problem for me.

And leading WILL certainly destroy accuracy within a few rounds.

Second the motion.....get the LEAD out....and get the RIGHT lead IN.....

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

The biggest single problem with shooting cast lead bullets in a revolver is the diameter of the cylinder throat vs the barrel groove diameter.

In spite of the fact that the proper dimensions have been known to many active shooters since at least the 1930's, major manufacturers have put out revolvers with improper cylinder throat dimensions (most notable S&W Model 25's starting the the 1950 and 1955 target models with sometimes having HUGE throats as large as .457"). Recently, early issues of Ruger .45 Colts (including my Ruger Bisley vaquero) with UNDERSIZE throats. Mine was borderline small and really did not cause great problems but really was a bit too small. Some of them are as small as .448" for a groove diameter of .451". That is an absolute RECIPE for leading.

Another thing is that bullets for modest velocity revolvers, SAAMI standard .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .38 Special can actually have bullets TOO hard leading to gas cutting and throat leading). Put the two factors together (oversize OR undersize cylinder throats and too hard bullets at low velocity) and you have a LEAD MACHINE.

I have shot 200,000-300,000 rounds of cast bullets (trying to be conservative, here) and have NEVER had a leading issue simply because my handguns had good dimensions and I sized my moderately hard bullets (mostly WW's+2% tin) properly for the purpose.

My competition guns MUST shoot under 1" at 25 yards. I have also shot extensively with 44 magnums at distances to 200 yards (most 100 yards and under) and here I tend to use a slightly harder bullet. I use ww's/linotype at a ratio of 8/1 with excellent results, again with NO leading.

I tend to clean my guns about every 300 rounds whether they need it or not .

Regarding lubrication...leading is almost never caused by poor lubricant. Quality of lubricant IS important when it comes to accuracy. My choice is currently White Label Carnauba Red (it shoots no better than NRA 50/50 but has a higher melting point and that IS very useful when shooting in hot temperatures. It also seems to work well when cold (although I have NOT shot it at 50 below). When it gets much below 10 degrees, I GO HOME

Dale53

I love my 696. It is supremely accurate, but I have never had a gun that leaded as badly. After 50 rounds, the barrel and chambers are severely leaded, but the accuracy is still there. I have tried several different lead bullets, both commercial and home cast. Nothing helps. I put in an order with X-treme bullets for copper plated bullets. When they arrive, I'll see it that is the solution to the problem. It takes longer to remove the lead than it takes to fire the 50 cartridges.

jag312;
You say that "nothing" helps. Have you slugged the cylinder throats in your revolver? Ideally, the cylinder throats should be at least .001" larger than the barrel groove diameter. Most revolvers will lead if the cylinder throats are AT ALL smaller than the barrel groove diameter (the bullet is sized too small in the cylinder throat and then is susceptible to "gas cutting" which will definitely cause leading). If the cyinder throats are correct, then the bullet must be sized to be a light push fit through the throats.

FWIW
Dale53

I clean my 696 after every range trip. My favorite 'popper' is a 240 gr LSWC (Meister, Oregon Trails, etc) over 3.5 gr Titegroup with a Fed LP primer in Starline .44 Russian brass. It chrono's a whopping 692 fps - and lays the steel plates down with authority. I keep wood grips on mine - usually non-fg square conversion cocobolo Ahrends. It's a real 'poof' load - and makes major power factor classification! No leading/carbon buildup is noted, either.

BTW, if you just have to have a new one... consider 'just' a 4" 629. At six ounces more, you gain one more round, larger hammer & trigger, an additional inch of barrel - and sight radius, and real 'Keith-level' .44 capability. I tried to convince a fellow of this at the pusher's yesterday - they had a new 4" 629 for ~$740-$750. Believe me, my 4" 629 will be here long after that 696 is gone. Besides, replace it's usual rounded wood grips with my .500 Magnum Hogues, and it's ready for 'real' Magnums.

Now, one day, after loading some new .44 Specials with 240gr LRNFPs from a somewhat local manufacturer, I had to brag about how accurate my 696 was. I stood up at the lower 100yd range and proceeded to shoot at a 16" steel plate at 100yd, making a 4 to 5 foot circle around said plate. Fifteen rounds later, having not hit it yet, I retired said 696. Hitting that plate 4 of 6 times with a 2" .38 didn't help. Pulling a few rounds - then mic-ing them and the remainder in the 500 count box revealled they were .426-.427" - not .429-.430" (The box stated .430".). My bullets had been sized .44-40 size. I bring a micrometer now when I buy lead. The correct size does help. Never brag - and deny other's bragging - it's bait!

Stainz

After I had the chamber throats opened up to .430" from the factory-issue .428" that graced my early 696, it has been much more accurate.

[Ditto with my 629 4".]

Regards,

Dyson

Dale53 has posted some excellent advice here. To that I will only add, cast bullets should ideally be .001" over bore size, and throats should be ideally .001" over bullet diameter being used, and that is regardless of bore size, or bullet type, meaning jacketed or lead.

Bevel base cast bullet designs can cause leading also, due to their design, which allows hot gasses to get up onto the sides of the bullet and start melting away the lead which will cause leading. Plus, a lot of commercial cast designs are too hard, which doesn't allow the bullet to obturate and seal up the throats and bore effectively. That will also let hot gasses at the sides of the bullet.

Guns 4 Fun;
That has not been my experience with the .45 ACP. I have shot tens of thousands of the Saeco #68 (bevel base SWC) sized .452" and of WW's + 2% tin in my autos (three of them) and several .45 ACP revolvers and NONE of them have leaded AT ALL. Again, I clean every 300 rounds or so whether or not they need it.

Dale53

Dale53 - I will check the cylinder throats on my 696. If that is the cause of the leading, then I will be saving a lot of profanity for other irritations.

Dale53-

I usually don't get leading too badly in my autos with the same bullet, but I tried them in my 25-2 last week, and while they were scary accurate, they left some leading. Enough that I got out the Lewis Lead Remover. I didn't mean that all of them will lead, but that bevel can certainly contribute to it. I have used them in quite a few different calibers now, along with a large number of guns, and I have found that generally, I get much less leading with square base designs, even when I push them beyond their hardness/design parameters. YMMV

gun4fun;
I have not had anything but positive results with bevel based bullets in autos and wheelguns. However, I must confess that I am also partial to flat bases. Just never had anything bad happen with bevel bases and have shot a TON of them.

I am presently waiting on a mould from Slovenia that is going to be a six cavity flat based version of the H&G #68 (the original is bevel based). Think of a Cadillac version of a Lee six cavity mould. It is a custom mould and will cast at .453 with my alloy (at least that's the plan).

Just for the sake of discussion, I suspect that your 25-2 leaded with the bevel base bullets simply because they were undersize. I would be interested to hear how properly sized bullets work in that revolver (if you manage to find some).

I live in SW Ohio and it's a shame you don't live closer. It might be fun to find the combination that shoots well and does so without leading.

Good luck!
Dale

Dale-

I wish we were closer together too. It would be fun to get together with you and shoot.

I get leading from these bullets even in my semi-auto's and especially my 25-5. It has .453" throats, and these are sized to .452", a near perfect setup.

I am going to try them in my 25-7.

I used to do a lot of hog hunting down in Stout, about 28 miles west of Portsmouth. I like it down there.

I have only small experience with commercial cast bullets. I have shot some commercial swaged bullets. HBWC's (.38's and .32's) have worked very well for me. Other than that I MUCH prefer my own home cast bullets. I can tailor the hardness and size to the use and NEVER have leading problems. Don't want to appear "smug" but it gives me a much greater range of options.

Of course, I have been casting bullets since I was a teenager. Most of my life I had to always watch my budget (early on not much income, then came marriage, kids and kids college, etc) so bullet casting allowed me to cast better bullets than I could buy for nearly nothing in cost. I could shoot as much as I wanted (and it was extensive). It was a no-brainer for me.

If you want to pretty much end your problems, long term, then I could suggest that you consider casting your own. You can start small, minimal investment, and have a smile on your face for the rest of your shooting life (completely independent of shortages, costs, and quality).

Just a thought.

I have not hunted hogs in Eastern Ohio but I have sure hunted my share of grouse and deer over there. Deer hunted near "Round Bottom" while camped out in 10 degree weather hunkered down on the ground in heavy snow ( I can still remember quite clearly). We regularly hunted grouse in Tar Hollow State Park. Nothing but hills straight up and straight down - very challenging grouse hunting but GOOD!!

Dale53

Believe me, I have been wanting to for a looong time. For reasons I won't get into on the forum, I haven't yet. I will when I can though.

There you go!!

Dale53