Model 325 Thunder Ranch Revolver thread

Careby · #1 02-23-2009, 07:41 AM

I thought it might be nice to start a thread about the Model 325 Thunder Ranch Revolver.

My idea of a perfect revolver is one of forged and machined steel, polished and blued, and fitted with a nice set of wood grips. My first impression of the 325 was that it is ugly, expensive, and trying to be something a revolver is not supposed to be. So why did I just buy one? Well, first I'll admit that not everything I own is blued steel and wood. There may be a Glock or two, and possibly even a black rifle hiding in the safe. Maybe looking at them has caused permanent damage to my eyes because when I saw the 325 in person, it didn't look quite as ugly as I remembered from the pictures. And then I made the fatal mistake of holding it in my hand. Wow, it's light! And really well balanced. I could really like this. But it's expensive. So I left it in the dealer's case and walked away, but for the next two days I kept thinking about it, and finally had to go back Saturday and buy it.

Every passionate relationship has its ups and downs, and the 325 let me know right away that it was not going to be easy. The first six rounds caused the barrel nut to become so loose that the barrel shroud rattled and the cylinder unlatched itself. So this week it goes back to S&W for therapy, hopefully to return to me with an improved attitude (and tighter barrel). I thought about trying to tighten the nut myself, and in the future I probably will want a wrench for it (I like the way the barrel/cylinder gap can be adjusted), but since it is brand new I decided to let S&W make it right this time.

Despite that initial negative experience I am still enamored with this revolver. I'm not sure exactly how I will use it, probably as a house gun most of the time. I do have a couple of questions I hope someone has the answers to:

1. IF I install Crimson Trace laser grips AND a rail mounted light (I can't believe I'm talking about a revolver), will the light block the laser? I do have a Streamlight TLR-1 weapon light which fits well but I really don't know where the laser beam would be in relation to the light.

2. I'm looking for a leather hip holster (non-concealment) that fits the 325 with rail attached (without light mounted). I like the one Clint Smith is using in the Thunder Ranch video, but don't know who made it. Is it Milt Sparks? I don't really want to wait six months for a holster, any ideas? Maybe it will fit something made for a 4" N-frame with full-lug barrel?

3. Anyone have a good suggestion for a tritium version of the S&W interchangeable front sight?

4. The trigger is machined, not MIM, and has sharp corners on the top third. My finger is apparently too fat to completely avoid that area, so I'm going to have to radius those corners. Are there any issues I should be aware of regarding the finish or surface hardening?

I'd be interested in any discussion about the 325 (please don't complain about the internal lock here. Yes, it has one - either live with it, defeat it, or don't buy it).

ENH · #2 02-23-2009, 11:28 AM

I experienced much of what you have. I did radius the the trigger as it chewed in holes in my finger. My barrel, loosened also, but I sent mine for porting by Mag Na Port, they torqued it with Loctite, OKed by S&W, and it has not been a problem since. I put in a C&S long firing pin for some FTF and now it is reliable even w/O moon clips.

I have a Galco duel position Phoenix for a 629 and it works well. I have ordered a Comtec kidex in hope it fits, should be here in a day or so will you know then. If it does not fit I have plenty of N frames that will.

The CTC grips will not work with the light in place or I would have a set on mine.

The wenches for the barrel are not available to the public or for that matter to most gunsmiths.
It is not like the old Dan Wesson.

I absolutely love this gun and have over 2000 Rd's through it.

boycan · #3 02-23-2009, 12:25 PM

My barrel hasn't come loose yet but I only have a couple hundred rounds thru it but the last time I shot it wore my finger out to the point I was too bloody to keep shooting. I just thought I was choking up on the trigger too much since it didn't happen the first few outings? So is this rounding off on the trigger hard to do or is it time for a gunsmith?

ENH · #4 02-23-2009, 12:28 PM

I did mine with a small file. It's not hard to do. I just took the sharp corners off.

Careby · #5 02-23-2009, 02:43 PM

I'm sorry to hear that the Crimson Trace grips are not compatible with the light, but grateful to have that answer for free. I guess a second possibility might be a weapon light with built-in laser, but rigging up a grip switch for it would be a pain.

ENH · #6 02-23-2009, 04:26 PM

The TLR 2 is a great light and laser combination. I have one on a XD 45 and like it very much. There is also a green laser from I think Laser Max that has a rail to attach a light. It is very compact and expensive. The Surefire 300 light on mine can also attach a laser from them but again is very expensive. The TLR 2 is available from Cheaper Than Dirt at a better price than most.

The ComTac holster came today, the 325TRD does not fit with the rail on, however it is a great holster and my 629 and 625 fit like a glove and it is fast. Should be great for IDPA.

boycan · #7 02-23-2009, 06:19 PM

Not a good pix because all I have is a cell phone and not the light I plan to stick with I want the TLR2 but this was cheap and I had the cash ;-)

NVBob · #8 02-24-2009, 12:01 AM

The only thing I don't like about the gun is the apparent lack of durability of the black finish. Has anyone else had significant scuffing where the extractor rod apparatus fits against the frame just in front of the cylinder (sorry if I'm using poor nomenclature here)? Is it normal to get near total scuffing of the finish there?? Otherwise the gun has been great. I will be using it at an upcoming defensive shooting class--can't wait!

heavilin · #9 02-24-2009, 12:25 AM

I have had my 325 TR for about 6 months,my 325 is perfect, sorry no problems, it even shoot good, all day of the bench it keep 5 in a small group. It travels with me at all times.

DRH

BlueMntCeltic · #10 02-24-2009, 02:12 AM

Glad to hear that your revolver is running great. I'm also glad to read that the Phoenix might serve as a holster. I have a TRR8 on order and was wondering what holster to use. I figured on contacting Thunder Ranch themselves to find out their recommendations. However, in my websearch for a solution to the holster problem I happened up a company from Buena Vista, CO ( http://www.wwlholsters.com/ ) that I want to check out further. They have a interesting product and their response to my inquiry about a custom holster for TRR8 with light attached was quick. Just an FYI and I can hardly wait for my TRR8 (why that instead of the 325 TR... I've got all the reloading gear for the TRR8 and none for .45 ACP, solely a practical decision)

ENH · #11 02-24-2009, 01:54 PM

BluemntCeltic
Welcome to the forum, lots of good information here with little whining.
Having one caliber to load for is reason enough to go for the TRR8. The 357 is extremely reliable also. you will like it.

BlueMntCeltic · #12 02-24-2009, 05:16 PM

Thanks, I am looking forward to it!

Leonard · #13 02-24-2009, 06:03 PM

I pick mine up later this week. Any accurate load recommendations

Len

Leonard · #14 02-27-2009, 06:22 AM

Picked up my 325 initial reaction for a gun that lists @ over $1400.00 it has a disappointing finish especially the hammer and trigger have a very cheap look. I hope it shoots as well as every one reports if so I assume I can polish the hammer and trigger and will probably change the grips I don't like rubber.

backalow · #15 02-27-2009, 10:36 AM

I was looking to buy one of these to carry on duty. I find it concerning that the barrel nut can come loose. Maybe I should look at another option.

Careby · #16 02-28-2009, 05:31 AM

I don't mind the finish of the non-MIM trigger and hammer, but the sharp edges on the trigger have to go. After all the complaints about the MIM parts on newer revolvers, I have to admit MIM trggers are smooth and comfortable, at least in the finger contact area.

As far as the barrel nut and reliability, time will tell. I'm hoping it is due to incorrect initial assembly. I've heard of a lot of loose nuts on new 325's, but I haven't yet heard of one loosening a second time.

NVBob · #17 02-28-2009, 07:52 AM

I attempted to post the picture of the scuffing I described earlier in this post. (First attempt at posting picture so I'm not sure if it will work.)
Anyway I emailed Smith & Wesson the question with attached picture, and the response was that this is normal and there is nothing that needs to be done.

Leonard · #18 02-28-2009, 08:16 AM

I am taking my 325 T R revolver down south (warmer weather)next week and will run a couple hundred rounds threw it.

If I like it and decide to keep it I will remove the trigger and hammer polishing (possibly jeweling both)

I have a number of older Smiths from 1950's thru the 80's Some are customized some tuned some original. While they do not have the unique styling of the Thunder ranch barrel the fit and finish blow the TR away. I also prefer the machined internal parts all though I realize GOOD castings are considered as good.

My complaint is that for the price, the fact it is from their performance shop and most importantly Smith selling it as a defense weapon it leaves a lot to be desired.

This gun was not purchased as a defense weapon I would never use(and yes am going to say it) an internal lock gun for protection. From 30 years of hunting dangerous game I have learned to keep it simple keep it effective and if something can go wrong it will at the worst possible time!

Len

Careby · #19 02-28-2009, 09:05 AM

I'm not satisfied with S&W quality control, and most of the revolvers I own, recent AND vintage, do have at least minor cosmetic flaws from the factory. (This type of problem is by no means a recent development.) It is a pain to have to return new guns to have problems repaired. Now would I rather pay more for them to get it right the first time, as opposed to letting them correct it later at no charge, hmmm... I'll have to think about that. You would think if they want the "Performance Center" brand to mean anything they would try harder to catch problems before releasing the guns to the public.

Leonard · #20 02-28-2009, 09:42 AM

Throwing more money at Smith is not going to solve the problem its like having a bad employee and paying him more this isn't going to make him better only a more expensive bad employee.

Based on what I am paying my favorite custom pistol smith Andy Horvath, Smith is charging more than enough to put out a consistently quality product. Perfect all of the time no but not so many problems that you have as many complaints posted on the various web sites.

The only way it may change is if sales fall off along with enough people complaining directly to the company. In this uncertain political climate their sales are probably threw the roof irregardless of product quality.

Len

backalow · #21 03-19-2009, 08:51 AM

Just one question, I noticed that on the 325 Thunder Ranch that the ejector rod is shorter due to the ball detent lockup. How does this effect the ejection of the moon clips and do the cases and moon clips drop free?

Repellere · #22 03-19-2009, 09:09 AM

It's actually shorter to accomodate the tactical rail. It's the same length that is on my 625-10 which I have had zero problems with in 45ACP. Cases do drop free as long as you do your part.

A little of topic but my opinion is that a mag release is there for mag retention. Once I press it, my other hand is ripping the mag out by its bottom plate. Dependence on drop free mags is for lazy americans . . . Even with big hands I have to adjust my grip to press the mag release on most guns. Europeans do one thing right when they place the mag release in the butt.

boycan · #23 03-19-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by backalow:
Just one question, I noticed that on the 325 Thunder Ranch that the ejector rod is shorter due to the ball detent lockup. How does this effect the ejection of the moon clips and do the cases and moon clips drop free?

Mine falls freely to the ground as long as I am using the moonclips, I tried some without the moonclip and all I can say is I am glad I had a strong inkpen in my pocket because those had to be removed by force? Weird HUH?

Leonard · #24 03-19-2009, 04:49 PM

I took my new 325 TR down south to our hunt club along with about a dozen other handguns. After the morning hog hunt my buddy and I spent the warm afternoons shooting at the club range. We had Colts, Rugers, and Smiths. Admittedly most of the guns were custom or worked over by top gun smiths. By far the most accurate was my Keith #5 by Andy Horvath. By far the least accurate was the Performance shop 325 TR. I now wish I had not bought it I will have Andy re-work the action polish the trigger and hammer hopefully improve on its single action pull.I will try some other loads and get rid of the front gold bead I cannot see gold beads. This is my second and definitely my last new Smith. In hind site I should have purchased an old Smith 45 acp and had Andy re-work it cost would have been about the same but not the results. I fell for the barrel contours and the detachable rail of the new Smith.

Repellere · #25 03-19-2009, 08:39 PM

Please explain "least accurate"? Are you talking 7 yards, 25 yards or 50 yards? My Thunder Ranch is a 15 foot or less gun and will never be fired single action.

backalow · #26 03-19-2009, 11:24 PM

When you are talking about accuracy please explain a little more. If this gun can't hit the front side of a barn at 25 yards then yes, this would be a huge concern. If this gun can keep all rounds on target then I'm O.K. with that. Having all the rounds go into the X ring is not something I would be too concerned with in a gunfight. what I am concerned about is this:

What is Important
<LI>Does the gun fire every single time I pull the trigger
<LI>Can I place my rounds on target quickly and accurately
<LI>Can I perform quick reloads

There are lots of personal preferences in a gun. From what I have read, the 325 Thunder Ranch wasn't developed or manufactured to be a competion target gun. From what I've seen and heard, this is a serious tool for the modern day gunfighter! I'm buying mine on Monday.

Leonard · #27 03-20-2009, 04:52 AM

As far a personal defense use I would never rely on a gun with a lock, the 325 is also too big for day to day concealed carry my carry guns are a Para carry 9 (very accurate) and an old Smith bodyguard (pocket gun). It would make an interesting nightstand gun with a light and or laser attached but again I personally will not take a chance on the lock.

I purchased the 325 to play around with and I will carry different handguns in the field on hunts in the event I get a close shot at a hog or a snake not as a primary hunting gun.

Off hand we were shooting at a 10" x 12" target with a 3" bull at about 15' the 325 was all over the paper. Same target at 20 yards shooting from a sand bag all over the paper. With a 4" barrel in 45 acp this gun should be capable of grouping shots.

Len

ENH · #28 03-20-2009, 01:54 PM

Mine groups everything in about 2".

boycan · #29 03-20-2009, 02:12 PM

I am a pretty poor shot and at 15ft my 325tr will put all six shots on a head shot. Any thing outside of probably a six inch group on my part isn't the guns fault.

Quote:

Originally posted by ENH:
Mine groups everything in about 2".

Leonard · #30 03-21-2009, 02:14 PM

I hope to get mine shooting to its potential. I started with 45 Auto rimmed Starline cases 230 grain Hornady fmj as well as plated lead bullets @ 230 gr. win primer, 5 grains of 231. Any load suggestions ? It seems there is something erratic in its performance I wonder if there is a tension problem with the barrel and shroud? The nut does not seem loose

Len

scott625b · #31 03-21-2009, 05:54 PM

Leonard,

Unless I am mistaken, the single action pull on all my Smiths is quite light. The double action pull on my competition guns has been lightened to about 4.5 to 5 pounds.

To expect your new aluminum gun to behave and shoot exactly the same as your others may disappoint you initially. But, if you can guarantee that your trigger pull and handling of the gun is exactly the same as the others you have, then maybe it is the gun and not the shooter.

Leonard · #32 03-22-2009, 09:34 AM

My single action breaks at 4lbs. As we were testing for accurate loads for several of our 44 specials I had a sandbag setup. It shot poorly off of the bag. The throats are about .451 a couple may be tighter. The barrel nut seem tight. I am going to try a hotter load I am not ready to give up on it YET! I will report the results.

Len

NVBob · #33 03-22-2009, 11:10 AM

My TR had 2 FTF's this weekend. I was using a EZ moonclips and a mix of factory ammo. Both FTF's happened in the same clip with visible dent in primers that failed to fire. After a second try, the round did fire.

Is this most likely an ammo issue or a firing pin issue or what?

But,I really do love this gun--it is very accurate, nice action, grip fits me perfectly and I would like it to be one of self defense handguns.

The IL is a non-issue for me, but obviously the FTF problem needs to be resolved before I rely on this gun for self defense. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Leonard · #34 03-22-2009, 11:23 AM

Some people have replaced firing pins resolving a similar issue. BUT if your reloading and your primers are not seated adequately you can cause the same problem IE the primer moved forward on being struck by the firing pin. Primers should be seated about .005 below the surface

Birddog2 · #35 03-22-2009, 11:41 AM

I've had a few FTF using the plastic RIMZ full moon clips, none w/ the S&W supplied metal ones.
All were handloads.
For carry purposes, I load factory ammo in metal full moon clips.

Leonard · #36 03-22-2009, 12:55 PM

I do not use clips but 45 auto rims. I have no idea if the moon clips can cause a problem although I don't see how. Check your main spring tension screw if its been turned out it could result in light strikes.

You can try firing the factory loads if they miss fire you probably have a gun problem light strikes or perhaps a short firing pin.

Or you can measure the depth of the reloaded ammo's primers again they should be approximately .005 below the surface of the case. If you have a good set of calipers the slide that pokes out the end when it is open can be zeroed when it is flush and used to approximate primer depth. If you do not have a means of measuring depth check your loads by hand if they are flush they are not deep enough.

Len

rbishop · #37 03-23-2009, 03:54 AM

Finally got my new 325TR to the range on Saturday. Fired approx. 75 rounds thru it using Winchester target loads. No issues at all using metal TK Customs full moon clips. I love this revolver. It was as accurate as the shooter for sure. It will be my daily carry gun in my tactical bag!

Careby · #38 03-24-2009, 06:24 AM

My 325 is now in its 4th week at S&W repair for a loose barrel nut. Maybe they found other problems - the cylinder was unlocking during recoil, but I thought there was a good chance that was caused by the loose barrel shroud.

misspelledgeoff · #39 04-01-2009, 06:14 PM

I had same problem with mix of factory ammo and steel moonclips--cylinder & slide and S&W. Sent it back to S&W. Came back and did it again, but not as frequently.

Just installed a C&S extended firing pin and will use federal match primers in my reloads to see if that will up the reliability.

gun is accurate though! I can make the holes touch out to 25 yards--basically as far as I can see and as good as I can hold.

Quote:

Originally posted by NVBob:
My TR had 2 FTF's this weekend. I was using a EZ moonclips and a mix of factory ammo. Both FTF's happened in the same clip with visible dent in primers that failed to fire. After a second try, the round did fire.

Is this most likely an ammo issue or a firing pin issue or what?

But,I really do love this gun--it is very accurate, nice action, grip fits me perfectly and I would like it to be one of self defense handguns.

The IL is a non-issue for me, but obviously the FTF problem needs to be resolved before I rely on this gun for self defense. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Leonard · #40 04-11-2009, 05:28 PM

MY MISTAKE

I have been complaining about the erratic accuracy I discovered the problem. While I consider myself a very good hand loader I made a major mistake . I assumed the new brass was correctly sized it came in very good shape so much so all I did was bell out the mouth and reload. I just discovered the cases were not sized down enough to tightly hold the bullet after starting it I could push it down with finger pressure. Bottom line I had uneven case pull on the bullet which accounts for the shots being all over the paper. I tested it off hand with correct loads and it is shooting accurately and consistently.

I still think the finish stinks for an expensive gun and I will have Horvath work over the trigger pull but at least when its all done I know it will shoot.

Len

backalow · #41 04-11-2009, 11:09 PM

I got my 325 Thunder Ranch on March 23rd. since I'm in law enforcement, I convicned the the Chief to let me buy this and carry this gun on duty. I went to the range to qualify with my new gun and received 7 failure to fires in 18 rounds. I was using smith and wesson factory moon clips with 230 grain CCI Blazer Aluminum practice ammo.

I called Smith and Wesson about the problem and I was told that the failure to fires were caused by the ammo the department was using. I told the rep. that we have been using this ammo for at least 7 years and that it fires fine in the rest of the our duty guns, whice are Glocks and Smith and Wesson 442's and 360's for backup guns. I also told the rep. that our department has a couple 625's and that I own own a 360 that all shoot the blazer ammo just fine.

I suggested to the rep. that maybe there was a problem with the length of the firing pin on this revovler. The rep promptly told me that all the firng pins were the same length and that this was not the problem. the rep. told me to send the gun back so they could take a look at it but he doubted there was much they could do about the problem. The rep. said that when firing cheap ammo that I should expect this.

Now, since our department fires this same round in multiple guns without a problem, I don't put much stock into what the factory rep. said. First, why would the rounds not fire in the 325 and fire just fine in our 625's? Second, if I am paying this much for a performance center gun for duty carry, it better darn well fire whatever I put in the cylinder.

This is the first time I have been so dissapointed with Smith and Wesson. It is hard for me to make a decision to carry this gun over my Glock 21 that has never had any problems. The chief has not stopped giving me nothing but grief about wanting to carry a Smith and Wesson over a Glock.

I sent the gun back to Smith and Wesson to have them look at and determine if they think something is wrong with the gun.

WHAT A DISSAPPOINTMENT!

NVBob · #42 04-12-2009, 08:32 AM

I am embarrassed to report that my FTF problem appears to have been due to the mainspring screw not being tightened all the way. First trip out to the range after tightening the screw, and I had absolutely no problems with approximately 75 rounds.

Leonard · #43 04-12-2009, 11:19 AM

Smith should have put more thought, more effort and more quality control into their ultimate fighting gun.

I would like to see an N frame steel,no lock, with a shortened cylinder window too reduce all of that bullet jump in the long cylinder. I know some one years ago lengthened the barrel into the frame and shortened the cylinder but I understand the barrel around the throat area needs as much frame support as possible due to the pressure.

If I had it to do over and I may do this and get rid of my TR I would get a 25-2 replace the cylinder if the throats are over size, shorten the barrel, round butt it, tune the action, install a Weigand front ramp. This would be the ideal 45 ar or acp.

Len

Careby · #44 04-13-2009, 05:54 AM

My 325 is now in its 7th week at S&W repair for a loose barrel nut. I don't even remember what it looked like now.

ENH · #45 04-13-2009, 06:42 AM

I would call them again, it is a simple fix. I had mine back in a week or so when it happened to mine.

Careby · #46 04-13-2009, 11:30 AM

Oh, I've called a couple of times, mainly to make sure it wasn't shipped and lost in transit. The only information I could get was that (a) it's still there, (b) they are behind schedule, and (c) it could be waiting on parts.

ENH · #47 04-13-2009, 06:51 PM

Sounds strange to me, I sent my 396 with the cracked frame on the 17th and got it back today.

RightWinger · #48 04-14-2009, 10:33 AM

A little off topic here, but I was just curious, I own a 625, that I normally shoot .45 ACP out of, can I also shoot .45 LC out of this as well or would I need to have the cylinder modified first?

ENH · #49 04-14-2009, 11:07 AM

No you can't. The 45 acp head spaces on the case mouth and a 45LC will not fit in the cylinder.

Careby · #50 04-15-2009, 01:14 PM

I called S&W again today and found out they are refinishing my 325. It had a couple of spots of bare metal showing on the front of the cylinder hinge pin which I figured could be easily touched up - I'd have probably tried Aluminum Black. I can't help but be a little worried now about what a refinish entails, the guy I talked to said all the markings would have to be re-lasered. But then I thought, they did the original finish, so they ought to be able to do just as good a job the second time. I wonder how you strip that black coating off? It's supposed to be finished by Monday, which is good news.