CS45 Plastic Magazine Button Removal >And Upgrade to Traditional Catch<

I

inboost

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So it appears to me that the compact Chief's Special autos have a plastic magazine catch button that is likely pressed on to the steel catch and is captured by a barb or similar feature.

Button installed in gun:
CS45MBI.jpg


button photo from a parts website:
CS45MB.jpg


If I wanted to disassemble the magazine catch, it appears I'd take an appropriate sized punch and knock the catch post out of the button from the button side while supporting the frame. Can anyone confirm this is the correct method? Will it break the button or can it be reused?
 
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Thank you for the confirmation SW CQB 45, much appreciated! Do you know if they only have black or do they offer a silver button as well?
 
Yes, the Value Line Magazine Catch (it's last name in my most recent armorer manual) is removed by placing a drift pin in the center of the magazine catch nut (button) and driving out the magazine catch body.

The plastic nut should be replaced when removed from the magazine catch.

There's a recessed head on the end of the mag catch body which snaps through a 'ring' inside the plastic nut (button) and which holds it on the mag catch body. The nut is intended to be a 1-time use part, being driven onto the end of the mag catch body once.

Last time I checked the only color plastic in which the nut was available was black.
 
Thanks for the confirmation Fastbolt! Sounds like that means that other pistols share this plastic button besides the CS series of gun. Since Brownells doesn't list any parts specifically for the CS45 I'll have to pick an alternate gun to shop under. After searching the S&W parts list for 239090000 (part number listed under my CS45) I find matches in M410 / M457 / M908 / M909 / M910 which are all covered on their website.

I'll definitely put one of the buttons on my next parts order. I intend to have the aluminum frame re-anodized in the not too distant future so it's going to have to come apart.
 
Upgrading to a proper magazine catch

I've decided to replace the plastic mag catch with the traditional S&W detent retained threaded magazine button. I've ordered the parts to do so from the 45x6 family of pistols.
  • 107690000 MAGAZINE CATCH (RH)
  • 069350000 MAGAZINE CATCH NUT
  • 068290009 MAGAZINE CATCH PLUNGER
  • 105790000 MAGAZINE CATCH SPRING

My question is for anyone who has one of these 4506/4516/etc guns apart on their bench. I need to know the depth of the detent bore.

I borrowed a 659 and checked out it's detent bore to find it is 0.102" in diameter by 0.580" deep. The detent it's self is 0.100" and offset from the centerline of the mag catch by 0.160"

I've not drilled for the offset in my jig below, but you can see I'm one drill operation away from having a jig to do the job.


CS45MCJ.jpg


There doesn't seem to be any magic on the clocking of this detent bore other than the obvious locations where it would break out of the frame. They seem to be on a parallel with the grip angle (75 degrees) and have been placed by S&W at 12 and 6 o'clock (more commonly). Is there any preferred clocking for such a change?
 
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Looks like 0.525" deep is a nice balance between coil bind at 0.420" and free assembly length of 0.595". I also decided to drill 0.145" off center-line of the button, 0.160" just seemed too shallow of an engagement. The depth allows for the detent to be set flush with the frame surface as suggested by Fastbolt in the next post. I did have to take a thread off the mag catch as it was proud of the button in this configuration.

No more plastic (ok, save for the grips) on this CS45!

CS45MCD.jpg
 
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Nice job. You're obviously a machinist. I'm not and wouldn't have thought to attempt that job.

FWIW, when adjusting the nut/mag catch button in guns which come from the factory with metal mag catches and which use the plunger, the height of the plunger should be such that the top of the plunger is either flush with the frame, or just slightly below the frame. That's so the mag catch has the proper movement to both secure and then release the mag with the intended range of movement of the mag catch nut in the appropriate position.

That's in guns which come that way from the factory, though. I have no idea what the depth of the factory plunger hole is, so I have no idea if this would apply to your personal frame modification. Did you call S&W and ask for the spec before you drilled? The folks in either production or the repair center would probably have the specs available.
 
Fastbolt said:
Nice job. You're obviously a machinist. I'm not and wouldn't have thought to attempt that job.
Click to expand...

Thanks Fastbolt! I'm a hobbiest machinist at best. Not my trade by any means but I go slow and make conservative changes. I'm not so sure the 0.145" on center was the best of choices as the detent can be pushed out of it's bore towards the center of the mag catch but the action on the button is forcing it away from center line so I don't think there will be a penalty. I just didn't like the very tangential interference the 0.160" would give considering how wide the underside notch on the button has been cut by S&W.

Fastbolt said:
FWIW, when adjusting the nut/mag catch button in guns which come from the factory with metal mag catches and which use the plunger, the height of the plunger should be such that the top of the plunger is either flush with the frame, or just slightly below the frame. That's so the mag catch has the proper movement to both secure and then release the mag with the intended range of movement of the mag catch nut in the appropriate position.
Click to expand...

I'd say I've probably got more pre-load than S&W does then. I'm happy with the feel and the tension though, and the catch moves out of the way and into engagement without issue. I haven't tried it with a loaded mag shoved into the bottom of a slide just yet, I may end up with too much pre-load and have to drill a little deeper.
.

Fastbolt said:
Did you call S&W and ask for the spec before you drilled? The folks in either production or the repair center would probably have the specs available.
Click to expand...

Didn't even think to call and ask, I couldn't imagine getting something like that out of them as just asking betrays what I am up to, drilling into their frame!
 
You might be surprised by what they'd be willing to tell you, providing you can actually get to someone who has that info.

As I've heard in more than a couple of armorer classes, though ... if you do something to the firearm other than what is intended by the manufacturer and ruin something, especially the expensive part (meaning the serial numbered frame), well, they're in the business of making more of them to sell. (Then there's the whole potential liability issue of whether the non-factory modification causes a problem which can adversely affect normal, safe operation.)

Of course, since the CS45 is presently only being made for LE/Gov orders last time I asked, buying another one might eventually become a bit more difficult and probably more expensive.

I remember one instructor (I think it was in one of my Colt classes) who was being pestered by questions from one fellow about making some modifications and changes he thought would be better than what was being done by the factory. The instructor simply told him that the company would be happy to sell him as many new guns as he wanted to buy if he was determined to keep doing something that ruined them as he got them in his hands ... ;)

I certainly wouldn't be someone who tried that sort of modification, being neither a machinist nor a gunsmith (just a simple LE armorer) but there's probably some gunsmith somewhere who's a machinist and has thought about it. Might even have tried it. Dunno.
 
Fastbolt,

All very sage advice. And a good time to remind forum members reading this that they ought not to try this at home (Cut to Mythbusters disclaimer clip)!

As for getting specs from S&W, I would guess you're right. It's all about how you navigate the voicemail and departmental first-on-phone techs to get to the guy with the prints. I have no experience sailing those seas and figure I would die of old age before I got to someone who would be interested in helping. When I last called S&W for help on converting to DAO, I was ridiculed for having the desire and then quoted double what forum members have advertised they had the job done for.

On a similar quest to pick new sights for this gun, XS sights gave me a dimension over the phone on my first try calling their tech support. It took two weeks of phone followed by email tag to get the same number from Trijicon. After my first reply Novaks basically ignored me (but have been great on the phone other times). You just never know how it's going to go until you try. Next time I will give S&W a call but I won't hold my breath :D
 
As I just can't seem to leave well enough alone, I went ahead and put the frame back in the mill and dug out another 0.050". This allows the catch detent to be set flush with the frame surface as you kindly suggested it ought to be in your first reply. I like it and have edited my post and picture to reflect it. Be sure to go back and look at the photo (hopefully it will refresh for you) to see the overall look. Here's a close up where you can see the detent 'leaning' into the bore a little more than I like. This was due to my choice to move it inward for a more positive engagement.

CS45MCF.jpg


From my measurements, the catch must articulate about 0.065" inward to put the outmost edge of the tooth of the catch flush with the inside of the magazine bore. When I originally had the bore drilled at 0.475" I was not able to set the button flush as 0.475-0.420(coil bind length of detent+spring)=0.055", off by 0.010". I decided to go an extra 0.040" and take it all the way to 0.525" so I could match the effort required to release a fully charged mag to a stock gun.
 
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I’ve brought this old post alive again.

There have been some questions recently about the CS plastic mag release parts and somehow improving on them. I thought although it’s an old post it’s still relevant today.

As I’ve said in my response to other post just today, I don’t know how to attach an old post to a new one so sorry for doing it this way.

Jim
 
Nicely done, Mr Inboost!

I wouldn't trust myself with trying to hand Dremel
to that degree of precision (at least not on a frame!).

My conniving mind is wondering about a CS9--if
something like catch, spring and button from a
Model 39 would 'drop-in' to the CS9 set up, and
hold-fast with a drop of blue threadlocker...
 
Yes, Steve you can substitute a threaded mag release and steel button from a single stack 9mm.

You don't need to drill the frame for the spring and plunger.

Use the "tornado" spring from the CS9 (instead of the spring and plunger), install the new parts, adjust the button/nut to your preferred height, and, as you say, carefully put a very small drop of a wicking loc-tite on the center of the nut.

While it is possible to do this, I've never had a bit of a problem with the plastic button/nut on any of my CS models.

John
 
JohnHL said:
While it is possible to do this, I've never had a bit of a problem with the plastic button/nut on any of my CS models.
Click to expand...

Hopefully I won't, either. The 'snap on' plastic button didn't
inspire confidence, and I figure there's a fair chance I'd lose
the catch as well, if the button popped free--and checking the
usual suspects, the catches were not to be found.
 
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