22 LR Extraction Problems with 617

Macinaw · Mar 16, 2014

I've been shooting Steel Challenge for about four years. At around stage three it became difficult to load rounds into the chamber and extraction was tough.

I read some threads about the problem. Following the advice from tomcatt51 (forum member) I purchased the reamer from Brownells.

At yesterdays Steel Challenge match the loading became effortless and extraction was simple throughout the match.

If anyone has problems like this; I highly recommend the $45 reamer from Brownells. It is easy to do.

tomcatt51 · Mar 17, 2014

It's nice to get feedback on this. We have a group of nay sayers here that seem to think reaming the chambers is a sin and that various in-effctive mickey mouse polishing methods are more appropriate.

Having reamed the chambers in a number of the 617/17/18 revolvers (several after various polishing attempts were tried) the only regret I've heard is that they didn't do it sooner.

armorer951 · Mar 17, 2014

finish reamer

I think most gun owners would question their use of this method for several reasons.....they're not sure that finish reaming will cure the perceived problem ("didn't S&W finish ream the cylinders properly during the manufacturing process?" they might ask), they are not confident in their ability to use the tool properly(irreversible damage), and they are concerned that the use of the reamer might void the manufacturer's warranty.

tomcatt51 · Mar 17, 2014

I would think most gun owners would like their gun to reasonabley chamber and extract rounds. A SAAMI spec chamber will do that.

The 617 extraction threads always bring forth mickey mouse chamber polishing schemes.

1 It's clear S&W doesn't cut the chamber to SAAMI specs. The chips I clean from my SAAMI spec reamer clearly demonstrate that.

2 If you're not comfortable doing this yourself it shouldn't be hard to find someone who has the (actually pretty minimal) required skill.

3 If you send your gun to S&W all they'll know (if they notice) is that your chambers are SAAMI spec. You think that's grounds for voiding a warranty? Not a chance.

Reamed chambers make the 617 et al much nicer to shoot. That's clear to anyone who has done this or had it done.

I get more PM's asking about this than anything else.

625-8s are also prime candidates for chamber reaming but that's for another thread...

S&WIowegan · Mar 17, 2014

We had a raft of these problems with 617s a few years ago when lots of us bought them to shoot steel. My guns were fine but a former local gunsmith had horribly out of spec chambers. The finish reamer cured his problem and he helped everyone else too.

If you don't like this idea/cure, please suffer in silence.

hanken · Mar 17, 2014

What size reamer dia. did you use from brownells

donki1967 · Mar 17, 2014

I had extraction problems only with CCI STD ammo.The 617 ejects the GECO,WIN,FED empty cases without any problem.
I love my 617 6" 6shots

tomcatt51 · Mar 17, 2014

hanken said:
What size reamer dia. did you use from brownells

Brownells' 513-051-220WB

It's a SAAMI spec finish reamer specifically for revolver chambers.

Rimfire Cartridge, .22 Long Rifle Finisher (Cyl) : RIMFIRE CARTRIDGES | Brownells

Cutting oil, the good thick brown stuff:

UNIVERSAL DO-DRILL | Brownells

tomcatt51 · Mar 17, 2014

S&WIowegan said:
We had a raft of these problems with 617s a few years ago when lots of us bought them to shoot steel.

Mike I assume? He kinda got me started reaming 617 chambers. I shot the King of Revolver Match way back when... There were two pretty distinct groups at the steel match. Those with reamed chambers and those beating on extractor rods...

BlueOvalBandit · Mar 18, 2014

I'll have to say, in light of my recent experiences including a 625-8 I'm not sure S&W owns any finish reamers or even knows how to use one. They really should just include a reamer with every revolver purchase since it's often corrected by the end user anyway.

Sent from behind enemy lines using TapaTalk

jepp2 · Mar 18, 2014

It really isn't that much different than cutting the cylinder throats when they are undersize (process involved, not the actual surface cut). I have done that on several revolvers when the throats are smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel. Only way to get lead to shoot well.

Just curious based on the picture you shared. Did you disassemble the cylinder before reaming? I always do when cutting the throats. Not absolutely necessary, but it makes sure a chip doesn't wind up in the wrong place.

Great job and thanks for sharing.

tomcatt51 · Mar 19, 2014

BlueOvalBandit said:
I'll have to say, in light of my recent experiences including a 625-8 I'm not sure S&W owns any finish reamers or even knows how to use one.

It is really kinda interesting as the chambers do have a nice surface finish. The issue is being undersize and out of round and having walls that are clearly "not straight". Not a nice combination.

BlueOvalBandit · Mar 19, 2014

tomcatt51 said:
It is really kinda interesting as the chambers do have a nice surface finish. The issue is being undersize and out of round and having walls that are clearly "not straight". Not a nice combination.

I know what you mean, reaming my 625 you could feel the high and low spots. I want to believe this is a result of excessive tool run out, perhaps from trying to keep up with demand. It's bad regardless, I had to double take multiple times when I reamed my first cylinder to make sure I had the right reamer it took so much more metal out than I expected.

Sent from behind enemy lines using TapaTalk

armorer951 · Mar 20, 2014

reamer

armorer951 said:
I think most gun owners would question their use of this method for several reasons.....they're not sure that finish reaming will cure the perceived problem ("didn't S&W finish ream the cylinders properly during the manufacturing process?" they might ask), they are not confident in their ability to use the tool properly(irreversible damage), and they are concerned that the use of the reamer might void the manufacturer's warranty.

FYI: Reference the discussion about the use of the finish reamer, I sent Smith and Wesson an e-mail on Monday about whether or not use of the reamer would void the warranty. Here is their reply:

Subject: question about warranty

Dear Customer,

That would void the warranty, the firearm should be sent in for us to look at.

If further assistance is required please reply accordingly.

tomcatt51 · Mar 20, 2014

armorer951 said:
Dear Customer,

That would void the warranty, the firearm should be sent in for us to look at.

If further assistance is required please reply accordingly.[/I]

Nice meaningless generic response.

The reason we ream chambers is because S&W WON'T. They'll send the gun back saying it's "in spec", or, at most, replace the cylinder with another with undersize chambers.

Similar situation with Ruger and undersize throats. I check throat size and have sent back the (rare) gun with OVER-size throats and got the gun back with a cylinder with their usual UNDER-size throats. At least those can be reamed to size...

One guy I shoot with sent his 617-6 back because of forcing cone issues. Another dull cutter... They replaced the barrel (warranty) and said NOTHING about his reamed chambers.

None of this changes the fact that chamber reaming is one of the best things you can do to a 617.

S&WIowegan · Mar 21, 2014

I can pretty much assure people who ream cylinders that S&W wouldn't even detect that if you returned your gun for service later. The warranty workers are parts changers, not highly experienced gunsmiths. If you don't believe me read a few "I sent my gun back to S&W" threads.

Babalooie · Apr 6, 2014

After reading through this thread, I remembered that I have a SAMMI spec finish reamer that I purchased several years ago from Midway USA:

PTG Solid Pilot Chamber Finish Reamer 22 Long Rifle Sporting

I ran the reamer through my 617-5 cylinder and WOW! what a difference. The rounds just glide into their chambers now. Extraction is smooth like 'butta' too.

I bought the one from Midway USA because Brownell's was out at the time. Now, I see the roles are reversed. Midway is out and Brownell's appears to have theirs in stock.

Well worth the purchase.

Also, why would you want to tell S&W? Like they used to tell us in the service, "Don't volunteer useless information."

H Richard · Apr 6, 2014

I acquired one and first ran it through my 34-1 and it just cleaned up and was relatively easy to do. I then picked up my Pre-18 and it was very soon very difficult to do. I could only cut in a very tiny fraction at a time, and them work the cutter out and clean it and re oil and repeat. It took me over 20 minutes to do one chamber completely. (No wonder I could shoot about 4 cylinder-fulls then have to nearly beat the rounds out). I haven't tackled the other 5 chambers yet and thinking of taking it to a gunsmith to do the rest. I was using honing oil as I didn't have specific Cutting oil. Would that make the difference? I couldn't believe how much metal I was removing from the chamber.

Big Cholla · Apr 6, 2014

I also reamed the chambers on my 10 shot M 617 and the 6 shot M 617 (original cylinder) that now is used in my M 48 on occasion. Accuracy was not changed either better or worse. Extraction is now what it should have been from the factory. No more pounding the extractor!

Answer to H Richard: Yes, the proper cutting oil makes all the difference in the world. Also, check your reamer for sharpness. Put some heavy dark cutting oil in a squirt can, mount the cylinder horizontally in a padded vise where you can get a good push on the reamer handle and use lots of oil. It will make a mess down below the vise, but that can be cleaned up later. Pull the reamer out smoothly frequently while cutting and clean chips from everything. I use an old clean toothbrush on the reamer. ........ Big Cholla

tomcatt51 · Apr 6, 2014

First, thanks guys.

Second, the .22 revolver chamber reamer I gave a part number for, post #8, is a Manson reamer, SAAMI spec (also frequently called "sport/sporting"), and revolver specific. It may be (probably is) the better reamer...

Definitely use the thick brown cutting oil, clean the reamer regularly, DON'T turn the reamer "backwards" ever.

Don't be surprised by the number of chips you end up with.

22 LR Extraction Problems with 617

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