Infrared Spectroscopy of FireClean and Crisco Oils | Vuurwapen Blog


"FireClean is probably a modern unsaturated vegetable oil virtually the same as many oils used for cooking.

The professor had something to say about the formulation and its relevance as a gun oil. “I don’t see any sign of other additives such as antioxidants or corrosion inhibitors. Since the unsaturation in these oils, especially linoleate residues, can lead to their oligomerization with exposure to oxygen and light, use on weapons could lead to formation of solid residues (gum) with time. The more UV and oxygen, the more the oil will degrade.”

Thoughts?

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Take your time, fast. J.Hughes

"Green" lubricants are biodegradeable and over time and exposure to oxidants and catalysts they, well, degrade. Big surprise?

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Science plus Art

Why would anyone put oil on guns that is designed for cooking food? Way too many good gun oils on the market for such silliness.

Doesn't surprise me and it won't deter too many people who use it. Legions of people use and swear by Hoppe's #9 oil paying as much $5 for half an ounce and it is nothing more than 100% mineral oil. Hoppe's #9 Gun Oil Liquid

Well ain't that a kick in the pants... the MSDS confirms it.

The same stuff touted as being "refined to perfection for use in firearms", is basically the same stuff I've been using to seal my unfinished kitchen wood cutting boards/blocks for decades, that I get online for about $30 a gallon (.23 cents an ounce).

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

I use good old synthetic 5W-30 motor oil, works great and it's cheap compared to buying gun oil.
A quart of Mobil One last a long time.

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John

'Ballistol' is another. It is comprised of mineral oil (other names: white oil, baby oil..) plus a touch of oleic acid (probably as an emulsifying agent (soap)), plain alcohol and perfume.

That's why it'll clean your gun, mend your cut finger, make the holster and sling look like new, lube the muzzle loader patches, give you more mpg,,just about everything and not harm a thing.
It's baby oil,,,

Respectfully I'm not sure about your claim regarding Ballistols formula. I've been using this stuff since the 80's ( steel screw top cans ) and can attest that just like the old directions warned it will attack and dissolve brass or copper alloys. I've had Ballistol literally dissolve the case mouths of some Rem 45-70 brass to the point it was sharp as a knive and primer pockets that would no longer hold a primer. Of course the brass sparkled but big trade off sort of like hydroflouric acid used to shine chrome in car and truck washes.

BTW the original Ballistol paperwork claimed to have oil of licorice in it. Question I have is have they snuck in a new formula ? I still have several big cans of the original mix so not sure what they are selling these days

Regards

The bulk of Ballistol is made up of White Mineral oil, but there are a few other contents in there as well http://www.ballistol.com/wp-content/...S_TECH_BIO.pdf

If you get a Quart of Dura Lube or slick 50 it will last forever and bonds to the metal! I put it in 2 ounce bottles with a nozzle to assist in application.

I just dip my guns in the old french fry oil that the local Mcdonalds tosses out behind the dumpster every night,
Cost is totally free and your guns have the sweet aroma of French fried potatoes when your at the range...
The occasional free french fries that are hiding in there are just another perk.


Hows that for environmentally friendly ?

Heck... that's what I used to run in an old '83 Mercedes diesel sedan, and local restaurants were happy to let me haul it off, rather than pay to have it done.

Filter it through cheese cloth into a 5 gal bucket to get rid of the food particles and it was good to go, just pour it in the fuel tank and rumble off.

The deep frying use got rid of the glycerin... which is what needs to removed when transforming pure vegetable oil into bio-diesel. And yes... the exhaust smelled like French fries.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Just beware that Hoppe's #9 gun oil is not the same as #9 cleaner... If you look at the ingredients, you'll see its a blend......

Yeah, a lot of folks only think of the solvent when they see/hear hoppes #9. There is actually two #9 oils, the older lubricating oil which is the one that is pure mineral oil and the lubricating gun oil which is a synthetic blend with other additives.

So what's the additive in Hoppe's No. 9 Solvent that gives it the aphrodisiac aroma? I sure like it when my wife puts a little behind her ears. :-) (just kiddin' and it's a good thing she doesn't look at my posts very often.)

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

It's been changed a little a couple of times to please the Greenys.
I wouldn't doubt if older mixes had a touch of ammonia in them to cut copper fouling in the bore. That'll shine brass and copper buckles up nice too (like Brasso), but long term exposure to those trinkets by the ammonia formula will degrade them. Just a guess though.

Oil of Licorice is of some medicinal use, other than that it's a perfume for the mix. It's not much of a cleaning agent for metal,leather or wood.
It's supposed to be OK for your stomach though.

The ingredients listed now are: White oil, oleic acid, alcohol, perfume.
That's it.



The stuff is listed at slightly alkali,,8 or 8.5 I think. Don't know what they insert for the 'perfume'.
Nothing earth shaking in the formula.
The fact that it does work well shows how little in the way of specialty lube is needed to clean the gun mechanism.
Much less than the mass marketers would like us to believe.

I use Mobil 1 sparingly.
But a lot of people use and have used Ballistol with no problems either.
Both pretty simple gun lubes I guess.

I saw a guy once at the gunshow demoing frog lube and would eat it to show it's harmless. I guess he lived?
He gave me a free sample pack and it did ok on my gun. Never tried it on my toast though.

Lol. I have no clue what's in froglube, but I called their customer service once and mentioned that their MSDS information contained absolutely no warnings of any kind and he replied that it didn't need any. I then asked him, so I could eat it or actually spray the solvent in my eyes without any harmful effects and he said "yes, it's completely non-hazardous."

Marvel Mystery Oil, which I have used as a light oil for decades is :
74% Mineral Oil
25% Stoddard Solvent (which is just highly refined mineral spirits)
1% Lard (lard is rendered hog fat )

I bet a lot of expensive super gun lubes are mostly mineral oil. And if I remember correctly, mineral oil will not hurt you if ingested in limited amounts . I believe it is used as a laxative. I worked at a wholesale drug co. and We sold the stuff to pharmacies .

Gary

Yep, pharmacy isle of your big grocery store is the place to buy mineral oil, store brand of course. Last time I bought it was $2/pint, on sale. Primary use is for the cutting board.

My thoughts: This "controversy" is made up. There is not a controversy. Fireclean did nothing wrong. And I don't use Fireclean; never have, so I have no dog in this fight. But the Internet reaction is childish, to say the least.

Here are the facts:


1) Fireclean has a public record patent - that anyone can read - that describes vegetable oil blends as a firearm lubricant. The patent has been published for TWO years.

2) Fireclean touts certain advantages using their product, and apparently the advantages have apparently been proven.

3) A blogger ran a test on several oils that confirmed that Fireclean has properties similar to - you guessed it - Vegatable oils.

4) The blogger ran with the headline "Fireclean is Crisco."

5) Now the headline has been changed to "Fireclean is Vegetable Oil," a fact that is been public record for at least two years. But the URL of the blog still states "http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/yes-its-true-fireclean-is-crisco/"

6) There is no explanation from the blogger why he changed the headline. (I surmise because the headline was false.)

7) People are now questioning the integrity of the company that markets Fireclean because its product is made of vegetable oil. (to me, this makes absolutely no sense).


This is the result of a sensational headline that has since been retracted without comment, and now a company's reputation has been damaged. Yet nobody is asking questions of the blogger. Such as: Why did you change the title after alleging Fireclean was Crisco?

Shameful how many have taken out the pitchforks (not here, but elsewhere).

^^^ Finally, a voice of reason.

Besides, what's the difference what it is made of as long as it meets the manufacturer's claims?

Doesn't matter what it is made of bottom line is it does better at specific tasks than the vast majority of other available lubes. Those tasks include maintain carbon residue in suspension and remain in place. Is it the best choice for every gun, no, but it excels at DI suppressed sbr use or any high round AR use. I know of too many serious shooters whom I respect that use it to let a ginned up interwebs controversy change my opinion. In particular one started by someone pushing a competing product weaponshield.

Vegetable oils WILL gum up in not too long of a time. They just aren't stable.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Doesn't surprise me at all.

I believe that! I can, also, say that when it's been allowed to coat one of my guns for months at a time Ballistol - of which I've used many a can over the past several decades - has become significantly, 'gummy'. However it hasn't been noticeably destructive of any metal surface(s) I've kept it on; and I still continue to do a lot of my cleaning with it.

For protection, however, and especially for external protection, I've yet to find anything I like better than FrogLube Paste. I use it on the outside of my EDC's; and FL can go for months and months without needing to be touched up. (Unless, like some people, you really enjoy polishing one of your pistols while you're watching the telly, or something!)

I'm not so crazy about FL as a bore cleaner, though. For bore cleaning I've never found anything better than Flitz Metal Polish. This being said, as an external protectant for the outside of my guns, and Randall-Made knife blades I am 100% satisfied with FrogLube Paste, and doubt that I'll ever find anything better.

Oh, yeah, when it's properly applied according to the manufacturer's directions, FL is slippery; but you've got to be careful to hold the gun upside down and prevent the, 'drips' from getting into the action while you're, 'baking' the gun.

'Why'? Because any coagulated FL runoff can get tacky; and, once it's been allowed to congeal, FL won't do the job for ya, and especially not in cold weather - That's, 'Why'.

Inside a gun's action I prefer to use any number of Sentry Solutions products: e.g. Hi-Slip Grease, Smooth-Kote Bore Treatment, and, of course, Tuff-Glide Lubricant. (All of which I'm careful to avoid direct skin contact with, OK! Which is exactly the same reason, 'Why' I don't lubricate any of my firearms with motor oil.)

That's it! Everything I've learned about: gun cleaning, maintenance, and staying healthy in one short post.

You can use it on Ivory also to help keep it from drying out.

... whats wrong with CLP

talkabout fixing it till its broke

I used to use CLP and various solvents, but noticed after I cleaned my guns, I always felt nauseous and a little jittery, plus my wife complained about the stench. I started thinking exposing myself to this stuff this can't be healthy, so I did some research and found a lot of these products contained some pretty harsh chemicals(neurotoxins and carcinogens). The whole purpose I own guns in the first place is to protect myself and my family, so slowly killing myself with hazardous chemicals pretty much contradicts that goal. If something will work while being non-hazardous, it makes sense to me to choose it over something that could negatively impact my health.

I have been using Gunzilla for a number of years now with great success...except it makes my eyes itch after I use it. I think it consists of vegetable and plant extracts so I must be having an allergic reaction. My son and I wandered into one of those snake oil sales demonstrations at a sports show and we drank the KoolAid - and we have never looked back.

I would imagine it is simply that Crisco objected to being compared to a firearm cleaner/lubricant chemical product.

FWIW, I have no dog in this fight, I had never even heard of Fireclean until this bit of internet excitement.

For anyone seriously interested in this dust-up, head over to www.m4Carbine.net "General Discussion" section for the epic thread roiling on this matter; Fireclean's an especially AR-centric product, so there are many interested parties on both sides of the divide.

Lots of insightful back-and-forth, plus plenty of entertaining squabbling.

I use fireclean. It works as described. That's all that I care about.

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SDMF

But, if you could buy the exact same thing for a fraction of the price, wouldn't you do so?

Any reasonable person would, but based on the available information -- including that posted by FC's detractors -- no one knows what FC is, only that it's vegetable based...like virtually every other non-toxic lube.

Even if it's positively confirmed at some point that it's contains nothing more beyond ingredients you can buy at any grocery store for a fraction of the price, there will still be some folks who refuse to believe it. I've told countless people that Hoppe's #9 lubricating oil is nothing more than 100% mineral oil, but some simply refuse to believe it and will continue to needlessly waste their money.

I wonder if its organic ...... lol

It's most likely a mixture of several vegetable-based oils.

Most lubes are mixtures of fossil or mineral based oils. No big surprise here, especially with FC, which has a published patent application that describes mixtures of vegetable based oils.

If you have the recipe for any lube, you can certainly make it yourself for cheap. But then that's what companies do - they come up with a recipe and sell the product.

Ever hear of Coca-Cola? Fructose, water, some coloring and flavorings. Are they ripping us off? Nope. People like Coke.

I think you have a misconception of where I'm coming from. I never said a word about them ripping people off or doing anything unethical. I do love the prospect and find it extremely interesting that many supposedly advanced, high tech gun care products are really just common readily available non-toxic products. Hoppe's #9 oil is just mineral oil, nothing more, nothing less and it works, but if I like and use Hoppe's oil, I can buy a bottle of USP mineral oil at the pharmacy(which is actually also better) for a fraction of the price, so why wouldn't I let others know the truth?

Something like making your own Coca-Cola is a little more complicated and involved than that and perhaps Fireclean is as well, but if I like and use Fireclean and if it's just a matter of literally buying a couple of vegetable bottles off the grocery shelf and mixing, I'd do and recommend that instead. I like saving money and non-toxic products and this Fireclean supposedly works well, so I would be thrilled to find out it's actually nothing more than a simple, easy to make blend.

Liberal Tears!

$79.99 for a 6 oz bottle.

Best lube in the world.

Attached Images

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Molon Labe!

Me too! Had every homeless person and neighborhood dogs chasing my cop car! Tried Hoppes and every redneck was asking me out for dinner. Finally settled on Mobil 1 0-30, now I can shoot 200 mph without worrying about sludge.

I see where you're coming from, and thanks for elaborating. My read of the patent, and my educated guess, is the FC formula is a mixture of several types of vegetable oils. It's likely difficult to reproduce in the exact proportions, however, and I have no clue how varying the proportions affects overall performance.

So yes, if it were as simple as that, then by all means (subject to any patent rights FC may procure). But that's the trick - trying to come up with the formula.

For the life of me, I don't know why this story has such legs. Fireclean, and other products, are vegetable oil based. It was no secret to someone that was even mildly curious, as FC has a published patent application.

Now, if you'll all excuse me, I'm going to grab the bottle of Evian water by my bed and take a sip before I go to sleep.

I have never heard of this Fireclean until now. Cooking oil is much too thick and sticky for firearms. What was ever wrong with CLP, Hoppe's, or the ever great RemOil?

Nothing in terms of performance. Some folks(myself included) are looking for safer, less toxic alternatives that will work just as well.

The atmospheric pressure in an engine is different from the one your gun is in. Motor oils have maximum lubrication properties when in the atmospheric pressure of your engine. Engine oil does not meet the military spec requirements for oil use on guns. In addition, in independent tests, motor oils have performed poorly in rust prevention compared to some high-tech gun oils.

The most widely used gun oil and grease by military forces and government agencies is the one that is rarely mentioned in these consumer-centric forums. It is Mil-Comm.

And for handguns one should mostly be using a mid-viscosity grease rather than an oil. On my Shield, I only use oil sparingly in "hard to reach" places that are known to rust, such as under the rear sight and on the magazine catch area inside the magazine well.

Interesting.

I pulled my FS9 out of the safe yesterday.

The barrel and hood were sticky and the action was a bit sluggish.

I'd cleaned it after the range session 9 August with Fireclean, and left it in the safe.

Is anyone aware of long term effect on Fireclean while being stored?

My VP9, shot last Friday, and cleaned after, is fine.

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Take your time, fast. J.Hughes

Be sure to use Extra Virgin Olive oil, it has a higher burn temp than regular old canola oil and is good for you. Smells nice too!

Heck, all the no stick pans are a form of Teflon and most all snake oil has PTFE (Teflon) so keep it all in the Kitchen.

Guys in the lounge love to post food and guns threads so go for it!

Actually the MSDS does not say what it is.

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/MS...67_default.pdf


FireCLEAN Defends Product, Publishes statement on "CanolaOilGate" - The Firearm Blog

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Still Running Against the Wind

The Italians actually were apparently using olive oil as a weapons lubricant in North Africa in WW2, supposedly to good effect.

Working in the oil industry I am constantly amazed at how expensive gun oil is. We can sell you 42 gallons of light sweet shale oil that is so clean out of the well it looks like honey for about $44 today. Basically a buck a gallon. It has the consistency of thick kerosene to diesel depending on the formation and well with no refining.

What sort of pixie dust do these companies buy that takes it from a buck a gallon to many bucks per onz?

Even high grade synthetic motor oil is only $2 a quart.

"Walks off shaking his head...."

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SWCA 1646

Anybody? At all?

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Take your time, fast. J.Hughes