Loose hammer stud?

Hello all, new here. I found this site while looking for info on hammer studs. I have a nice collection of j frame's and on my model 60 I noticed that after shooting it that there was oil coming out of the hammer stud right under the cylinder release. My stud can be seen very easily and I've noticed that on many of my other guns it's blended into the finish better. It doesn't stick out or anything, but I can see the outline of it.

So anyway I disassembled the gun and I can actually wiggle the stud with my fingers. Would this be considered normal? Maybe I've never noticed it on my other guns. This gun is a model 60 that I bought new in the mid 80's. I'm afraid to shoot it as I don't want to stretch the hole in the frame where it fits into it. I do not have any way to upload pictures at the current time.

Not normal, and not good, unfortunately; you don't want play in the hammer stud, which bears much of the action's stress under spring tension when in use and so needs to be solid and stable.

It's possible that with the sideplate on the hammer boss places enough stabilizing pressure to minimize risk of the stud breaking entirely off, but I'd wager that eventually the stud is due to shear, and at minimum is presently performing sub-optimally.

Everything I've read of late is that S&W no longer repairs broken hammer studs. Members with current S&Ws that have sheared the hammer stud report the entire firearm replaced under warranty. S&W began offering lifetime warranty to original owners in 1989. If your Model 60 is of that vintage or newer, you might be in luck. If older, you may of have find a qualified revolversmith willing to do the work, or you've got a parts gun.

Thank you for the help and that's what I was afraid of. The gun is definitely before 1989. I will try to locate a gunsmith or this.

Jframeguy said:

Thank you for the help and that's what I was afraid of. The gun is definitely before 1989. I will try to locate a gunsmith or this.

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Probably not the answer you wanted, and let's see who else chimes in -- lotta knowledgeable folks on this site, which let me welcome you to, by the way.

I'd still consider giving S&W a call, too; sometimes they surprise with performing a fix they don't normally, or offering warranty coverage to an original owner even if it's prior to the stated cutoff.

If you find a gunsmith in your area who's willing, great, but make sure they're also able -- the former in no way assures the latter. Otherwise, there are a few around the nation trained and qualified who might take it on.

Jframeguy:

If you can plainly see the outside of the Stud on the Frame then I'd think that it has been moving around (rotating) under use. I agree with Hapworth above and if it were me I'd get it repaired sooner than later. As long as the stud is still in one piece it should come out easily. Parts are still available and for a Professional GS the repair is not a big deal. I would DEFINITELY get it done EVEN if S&W WAS going to give you a new firearm because IMHO the older ones are far better than the new ones.

After the repair the Stud will be slightly more obvious because when originally built in the Factory the Frame is polished after the stud is installed making it all but invisible. I suppose you could also re-polish the frame after the new Stud is installed but that would be another expense - still, on a stainless gun it should not be all that much and would be something to consider as well.

I truly think it's pitiful that S&W no longer does this simple repair! For them it's a piece of cake and they should be ashamed of themselves! Many of these guns that are talked about on our Forum are NOT all that old and I do not consider a 30 year old Chief's Special obsolete or beyond repair for such a simple fix. Shame on you S&W!

I can only add that is an unfortunate problem to have. Factory or factory trained gunsmith required, in my experience. Good luck with it. Hate to see a broken Model 60 . . .

You've got to be kidding me. I see this post and say to myself that I can see this on my 60! Pulled my plate and low and behold it's also loose. This is a bummer and I'm fortunate that this came up as I have that 60 of mine up or grabs in the classifieds! Going to pull the ad and give s&w a call later. Major bummer and I hope you get yours fixed.

Makes me wonder if this is common or a case of the "I pulled the side plate and cycled the action with all the springs in" deal here? Have you done that with yours? I don't with mine but I can't speak for previous owners.

Edit:

Here's a pic of mine. I've honestly never paid any attention to it. Learned something new today. Unfortunately not a good thing for me.

I don't know the time frame when S&W went from a screwed in stud to a pressed in one. If your gun has a screwed in one, you should see the base of it has a notch on either side of the shaft that allows it to be screwed in and out with the use of a special spanner type tool. If so, it can be removed, the threads and the threads in the hole can be cleaned (brake and parts cleaner do good) and with a drop of locktite can be screwed back in, (making sure to put the side plate on for proper orientation) until it is set. allow it to dry a day then reassemble the revolver. If it has a pressed in stud, I don't know what fix there is other than being replaced. I've never had to try and find this part so I don't know the availability of them.

If you can remove the hammer stud, clean the hole in the frame, and using a prick punch, put a few divots on the stud part that goes into the frame hole. Use LocTite, press the stud back into the frame and let it set for a day or two, with the side plate on. I cannot believe S&W will not repair this as it would be a simple fix for them. So much for customer service huh?

I had to replace a hammer stud on a 586, so I made one on my lathe and fit it to the frame. Used cold blue on the end, so it doesn't match very well, but it works and the stocks cover it up.

I'm not sure on the timeline here but the older guns you'll find the hammer and trigger boss and studs pressed in. The stud is independent of the boss but a press fit. On later guns like my 625's the boss is milled from the frame and side plate and again I think the pins are press fit. If your gun is older and has insert bosses you need to see if the boss is loose or just the pin.

I've staked loose bosses on older guns with a prick punch being careful to hit around the boss in three locations and not so hard as to offset the boss but it's not likely. If it's loose studs/pins you may be able to carefully stake them but I've never tried it before. There are some trick very light penetrating epoxy products by Loctite that may work however the number or series I'm not sure of. They are a thinner version of their bearing race adhesive. I do know off the shelf epoxy resins are too viscous and will create hydraulic pressure if you inject even a bit in the hole and try to piston the stud down. It will pop back up.

Good luck

There seems to be some general confusion here on the proper terms of the parts, or boss and stud. The boss is a round and raised receiver on both the fame and side plate that holds and supports the trigger and hammer studs ( center pins ). The bosses on earlier guns were pressed and perhaps threaded into frames and side plates then faced off to regulate or center the hammer/trigger. In earlier guns the boss height varied according to fit up and assembly. It you were to add hammer or trigger shims they would ride on their respective bosses. Each boss is bored for a stud which is pressed to fit. The studs are essentially polished pins which the hammer and trigger pivot or swing on.

If the boss is loose it means it is one of the older guns where they are independent of the frame or side plate. I have a hard time understanding how a insert boss could get real sloppy since the boss on the other side is engaging the stud and preventing it from too much travel. As far as I know the newer guns all have milled bosses machined from the frame or side plate and therefore cannot come loose. With the earlier milled integral bosses the studs are still press fit. However I have heard years ago around 1989-90 that the CNC operations may start milling the boss and stud as one but I can't confirm this since I don't have any newer guns and quit gunsmithing . If this is indeed true I can see why the factory won't fix em -- they can't realistically.

Regards

garbler said:

There seems to be some general confusion here on the proper terms of the parts, or boss and stud. The boss is a round and raised receiver on both the fame and side plate that holds and supports the trigger and hammer studs ( center pins ). The bosses on earlier guns were pressed and perhaps threaded into frames and side plates then faced off to regulate or center the hammer/trigger. In earlier guns the boss height varied according to fit up and assembly. It you were to add hammer or trigger shims they would ride on their respective bosses. Each boss is bored for a stud which is pressed to fit. The studs are essentially polished pins which the hammer and trigger pivot or swing on.

If the boss is loose it means it is one of the older guns where they are independent of the frame or side plate. I have a hard time understanding how a insert boss could get real sloppy since the boss on the other side is engaging the stud and preventing it from too much travel. As far as I know the newer guns all have milled bosses machined from the frame or side plate and therefore cannot come loose. With the earlier milled integral bosses the studs are still press fit. However I have heard years ago around 1989-90 that the CNC operations may start milling the boss and stud as one but I can't confirm this since I don't have any newer guns and quit gunsmithing . If this is indeed true I can see why the factory won't fix em -- they can't realistically.

Regards

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I'm not sure of the terminology and can't speak for the OP, but when I wiggle the stud (part that goes through the hammer), I can physically see that circle under the cylinder release moving with it. My gun was shipped in 1980 according to members here. Again, can't speak for the OP on his.

I spoke to an s&w rep today and he quote me at $160 to evaluate and repair it. So while expensive it might be able to be fixed by them. 5-6 month wait time. So I'll start my own post when it's either fixed or told that they can't do it.

Boogsawaste said:

I'm not sure of the terminology and can't speak for the OP, but when I wiggle the stud (part that goes through the hammer), I can physically see that circle under the cylinder release moving with it. My gun was shipped in 1980 according to members here. Again, can't speak for the OP on his.

I spoke to an s&w rep today and he quote me at $160 to evaluate and repair it. So while expensive it might be able to be fixed by them. 5-6 month wait time. So I'll start my own post when it's either fixed or told that they can't do it.

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That gun has a press fit boss. The circle you see moving is the boss loose in frame. I have a 686 no dash that I built as a pin and plate gun and it is 1980-81 vintage so most likely just like yours. Staking with a prick punch will certainly do the job but you really should find a decent revolversmith or the factory if this is more than you feel comfortable doing.

Good luck

garbler said:

That gun has a press fit boss. The circle you see moving is the boss loose in frame. I have a 686 no dash that I built as a pin and plate gun and it is 1980-81 vintage so most likely just like yours. Staking with a prick punch will certainly do the job but you really should find a decent revolversmith or the factory if this is more than you feel comfortable doing.

Good luck

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Yes this is beyond my comfort zone. Thanks for the info.

I've repaired a few of them over the years and as long as the pin is "staked in " straight, once the side plate is reinstalled it should not move around. When being refitted (assuming it has not broken in two) rotate for best possible fit and mark it before final installation - basically align it as close to the original orientation as possible for aesthetics and HERE I agree that red locktite is a good thing.

The few that I have repaired came out good enough that unless you were specifically looking for the Stud on the outside of the frame it would be undetectable. I did not refinish the guns. My repairs have so far lasted at least 15 years and when the side plates are removed for maintenance every so often, the Studs remain rock solid.

I just noticed that I may have the same issue on a 625-6 45 Colt Mountain Gun. I've sent the following pics to Mark Delmonte, S&W Customer Service for evaluation. Expect an answer by mid-week next.




Keith

NOTE:

I have also seen perfectly good Studs that have NOT come loose, but are quite visible on the Frame. I suppose some guns just got polished better than others so JUST the mere fact that you can see the outline of the Stud does not necessarily mean you have a problem - but could mean it was just a poor fit or polishing job from the Factory.

chief38 said:

NOTE:

I have also seen perfectly good Studs that have NOT come loose, but are quite visible on the Frame. I suppose some guns just got polished better than others so JUST the mere fact that you can see the outline of the Stud does not necessarily mean you have a problem - but could mean it was just a poor fit or polishing job from the Factory.

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As always Chief38, your posts are excellent and very informative.

Chief, I was originally going to point out that what you are calling a stud is actually the boss which is defined as " cylindrical projecting part in a casting or forging that supports a shaft, pin or stud ". Since I am one of those who believes using the right name for Parts critical. But now I'm not sure .

I gotta ask you about the two photos above. These taken of the exterior of gun right ? So the two circular plugs we are seeing are actually milled or drilled and then pressed all the way through the side plate and frame. Which explains why you talked about polishing. If this is the case can you tell me how long have they been doing this ? I've been out of the business since the early to mid 1990's and never seen this feature at all.

This has to be cost cutting but how do they expect these inserts to stay put ? Obviously a problem. I'd really love to see a good photo of the inside frame around the hammer boss on one of these guns if somebody has one. The photo below is a early J-frame side plate and how it used to be done -- milled boss with studs inserted. No loose leaking parts but more machining I'm sure.

Regards,

S&W will repair your older revolver if the hammer stud is broken. It will require a new stud installation followed by a complete refinish if the revolver is blued. I don't know for certain, but an SS frame would likely be easier to refinish after the repair is done. The new stud will stand proud of the frame after installation and will require polishing to bring it down level with the frame.

Not too long ago, I bought a Model 13 with a three inch barrel from an individual over the net. Upon receipt, I inspected the gun and found it to be in apparent good condition with only some sluggishness of the action as is sometimes found when the internals are gummed up with old lubricant residue. Terms were no disassembly or firing of the gun.

After I accepted it, got it home, and removed the sideplate, I found that the hammer stud was completely broken off. I am unable to explain how the action could have operated at all, much less as smoothly as it did function. The seller refused to make any adjustment or accept a return. As happens, we sometimes buy experience!

I decided to contact S&W regarding repairs. They said they would do it if possible, cautioned me that a complete reblue would be required if it was done, and required me to send in the revolver (my expense) for evaluation and estimate of cost which would cost me $45 if repaired or not. I did not need a Model 13 paper weight and since I am very fond of three inch barrels, I decided to let them make it right. I sent it in, approved payment of the estimated cost, and waited. Took about 3 months, but I received the revolver back. Fit, function, and repairs were expertly done. Today's blueing is not the same as the old blueing, but the gun looks very nice. Action operates extremely well, better than most guns built in 1988. If I were to sell the gun, I might get half of what I have invested in it, but the gun is not for sale nor is it likely to ever be. It suits me, and the cost is and will be worth it too me. It will likely be passed along to one of my sons with full disclosure. I doubt either of them will be interested in selling it.

Point to be made is that you can get an older steel framed S&W repaired, in my experience repaired very well. I am very satisfied with the work. Whether the cost would be worth it to anyone else is a personal decision. My decision was good for me. If you decide to have your revolver repaired, I suggest you contact S&W and entrust them with the work. In any case, it must be repaired to be anything other than a paperweight. Good luck!