opoefc
US Veteran
Anybody know of a competent gunsmith/welder who is experienced in welding repairs of demilled S&W aluminum alloy frames? Ed.
Welding repair of alloy frames ?
- Thread starter opoefc
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Ed, you might need a magician for that.
oger
SWCA Member
It depends on exactly what alum alloy they used but remember alum moves around so much when welded that the end result is probably useless for anything but a paper weight.
SAFireman
SWCA Member
It may be welded for cosmetic purposes, but I doubt that it would ever be suitable for any kind of use other than display.
gunnails
Member
Don't laugh, serious, JB Weld.
If it had cracked and broke, maybe - for a few rounds at least. But if it was CUT there is a thin layer of metal gone where the cut was made (the same thickness as the blade that made the cut).
Putting the two halves together with that layer of metal missing is going to make the frame shorter. Way too short for the kind of tight tolerances required for the gun to work.
Same with welding. You would need to hold the two pieces precisely in a jig that would maintain the perfect exact alignment and distance between them. Even then heat warping would probably cause the two joined pieces to be misaligned too much for it to ever function.
That is why they cut them up to demil them. It is pretty much impossible to repair the damage.
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Nearly anything can be done if you are willing to throw the right amount of money at it. The question then becomes whether it's worth the cost of repair or purchasing a new/replacement. I suspect in this case, it's the latter.
Any competent firm such as Clark should be able to perform this, but beyond the question of cost is whether they want to invest the time and whether they think the finished product will be safe.
OP: might want to post some pictures so we can better judge what amount of work needs to be preformed.
Any competent firm such as Clark should be able to perform this, but beyond the question of cost is whether they want to invest the time and whether they think the finished product will be safe.
OP: might want to post some pictures so we can better judge what amount of work needs to be preformed.
I read alloy frames are 7075 aluminum and that pretty much rules out a weld repair back to a safe, shootable gun. I'm speaking as an experienced welder and fabricator of aluminum parts. If the frame was 6061 a weld repair would work better but then the frame would have to be heat treated, and then you have to deal with distortion of the part.
Another thing that popped into my mind is legality. Do you manufacture a firearm when you make a demilled frame usable again?
Another thing that popped into my mind is legality. Do you manufacture a firearm when you make a demilled frame usable again?
Tired Gunsmith
Member
The Eutectic aluminum welding rods were attempted many years ago when the demilled alloy frame revolvers were available for very low prices.
There were a number of them done that we saw, and none were of the same dimensions as before the 'weld'.
We would not do this even though we did repair broken trigger guards on alloy revolvers.
Our legal advisor said that we would be "Manufacturing" if we did restore one of these 'former' guns.
There were a number of them done that we saw, and none were of the same dimensions as before the 'weld'.
We would not do this even though we did repair broken trigger guards on alloy revolvers.
Our legal advisor said that we would be "Manufacturing" if we did restore one of these 'former' guns.
Trying to pick up some learning here on the Form. What alloy S&W would warrant the expense to weld and refinish. I believe the pre-37 and 12s were the first? Or was it the AF 2"? Maybe Im a bit to frugal to spend a lot of money on an"if".
Probably none. Welding an aluminum part and getting it back to it's original dimensions and temper is no trivial matter. You might as well CNC machine a new frame out of billet stock, IMO.
Hello Shocker, if there is none, what is the point?
Before I retired I used to weld lots of aluminum. I used filler rod from New South wales that was terrific and did lots of motorcycle parts and a few alloy trigger guards. Then Our insurance man showed up and told Me not to do guns. It seems if You alter a gun, or weld a broken part You assume manufactures liability for that gun. Cycle parts were OK.
Thanks all for the input. Some have advised that a good motorcycle repairman ( Jesse James ) can do the job, as they repair/restore weld thin aluminum fins on engines. The S&W in question is a Baby Aircrewman with the right side recall shield broken off by a clumsy demill job. 0therwise, the frame is pretty much undamaged, so as I see it, weld on a chunk of aluminum and shape it to fit. Maybe JB Weld can do it! I've fixed a lot of things with JB! Last sale of one of these topped $20K at auction, so spending a few bucks for repairs may not be too insane. Talk about a project gun ! This has got to be the PR0JECT 0F THE YEAR ! Ed.
OK, well if the recoil shield is all that has been "demilled" then it may be repairable. Obviously most of us were thinking of a REAL demil job where the main part of the frame is cut into two or more pieces.
If you had described it as having one side of the recoil shield broken off, the answers you got would have probably been totally different. I know mine would.
The recoil shield isn't nearly as much of a tolerance-critical part as the main body of the frame. I can see where a broken recoil shield would be very repairable. The only question then is whether it is worth making the repair.
In this case, the answer to that question would be MAYBE or even probably...
If you had described it as having one side of the recoil shield broken off, the answers you got would have probably been totally different. I know mine would.
The recoil shield isn't nearly as much of a tolerance-critical part as the main body of the frame. I can see where a broken recoil shield would be very repairable. The only question then is whether it is worth making the repair.
In this case, the answer to that question would be MAYBE or even probably...
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scooter123
Member
I expect that there would be a lot of Unintended Consequences in attempting a repair in this location even though it appears simple. First problem is that the chances of the sideplate fitting after the repair approaches ZERO to probably the 5th or 6th decimal. Because Aluminum moves around a LOT when it's welded. Second issue is that it's very possible you'll find you have welded up the opening for the Hand in the welding process. Try and picture how to fix this particular area using nothing more than hand tools. Most likely you'll need an actual Dental Drill to get an opening to start with and you'll have to do this without the aid of any jigs. Finally you'll have a REPAIRED collectable and selling something like this without disclosing the repair is technically a Felony Fraud due to the extreme valuation you have stated. After all the effort spent on this "Restoration" I doubt you'll see more than 1000 dollars offered by anyone and odds are that nobody will touch it because welding Aluminum is a giant can of worms because this frame was originally Forged and it's now a Weldment with all sorts of build in stresses due to that welding.
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email these people with some pics and tell them what you are wanting to do and your concerns. See if they can repair the recoil shield.
They have an excellt record of work for the custom gun folks.
email these people with some pics and tell them what you are wanting to do and your concerns. See if they can repair the recoil shield.
They have an excellt record of work for the custom gun folks.
That part wouldn't cause much if any problem with fitting of the frame due to the location, maybe this one would be possible, and the possibilities of this gun ever being fired again are slim to none also. Let us know if & when you get it done.
Some aluminum alloys are not considered weldable and for good reason. I was talking to my brother who is a certified welding inspector about this and heading said although you might get a clean weld on the types of alloy used in guns, you would never get good strength and as they use a type of hardening that would be lost in heat effected zone. Most likely would not break in the actual weld but beside it that heat effected zone. My advice on any critical part is don't do it. Ever noticed that airplane wings and bodies are rivetted and not welded. Even in the days of amazing robotic welders they spend tons of man hours rivetting because they can not get that aluminum to weld with strength. Very similar to firearm aluminum alloy. PS also have a BIL who is a product in exec for Boeing.
Don't weld aluminum gun parts. Maybe trigger guards floor plates etc. Not any action or critical frame parts. And this is an opinion from a guy who modifies steel frames. I also wouldn't weld on a steel gun frame other than grips frames etc with out redoing heat treatment
Don't weld aluminum gun parts. Maybe trigger guards floor plates etc. Not any action or critical frame parts. And this is an opinion from a guy who modifies steel frames. I also wouldn't weld on a steel gun frame other than grips frames etc with out redoing heat treatment
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