I don’t reload, I would be using commonly sold rounds, Remington, Winchester, Fioochi, in both magnum and special. I do not yet know what SAAMI means and/or its relevance for my project, any explanation would be helpful for me. And yes reaming a cylinder would be preferable to barrel shortening, forcing cone re-cutting and of course buying a mag cylinder. The gun is a -6
Model 24 magnum conversion?
- Thread starter notsofast
- Start date
The only way to have a "convertible" 44 Spec/44Mag would be to start with the Mod 29 and have a 44 Special cylinder on the Mag length made up. A pretty expensive proposition. Cost wise, buy both guns and pocket the change.
SAAMI is the initials of the Small Arms And Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute, SAAMI. They set the cartridge and chamber dimensions and cartridge pressures that all large U.S. manufacturers voluntarily adhere to. This way all the large manufacturers' firearms can safely fire all the large ammunition manufacturer's cartridges.
Except for specialty cartridges from small boutique ammunition manufacturers the .44 Magnum cylinders' longer length only benefits reloaders. The extra length allows us to use bullet molds with longer noses, to load heavier bullets, and to seat bullets out to increase the volume of the powder space.
I used SAAMI because most members expect statements to be backed up by a respected source.
Except for specialty cartridges from small boutique ammunition manufacturers the .44 Magnum cylinders' longer length only benefits reloaders. The extra length allows us to use bullet molds with longer noses, to load heavier bullets, and to seat bullets out to increase the volume of the powder space.
I used SAAMI because most members expect statements to be backed up by a respected source.
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notsofast,
As K22fan posted, SAAMI also sets standard pressure for cartridges:
44 Spl is rated at 15,500 PSI (pounds per square inch) and guns manufactured in 44 spl are designed to safely withstand that pressure.
44 Mag is 36,000 PSI and therefore guns manufactured in 44 Mag are designed to safely withstand that pressure.
You're prosposing to convert to and shoot 44 Mag in a gun designed for 44 spl pressure. That we know for sure. What we don't know for sure, is what the Model 24 is heat treated for beyond 44 spl.
However, some years ago some Model 624s 44 spl with 3" barrels left the factory with cyls that had chambers long enough to accept 44 Mag cartridges. S&W spent an awful lot of money on a recall to get those guns back and correct the problem.
As K22fan posted, SAAMI also sets standard pressure for cartridges:
44 Spl is rated at 15,500 PSI (pounds per square inch) and guns manufactured in 44 spl are designed to safely withstand that pressure.
44 Mag is 36,000 PSI and therefore guns manufactured in 44 Mag are designed to safely withstand that pressure.
You're prosposing to convert to and shoot 44 Mag in a gun designed for 44 spl pressure. That we know for sure. What we don't know for sure, is what the Model 24 is heat treated for beyond 44 spl.
However, some years ago some Model 624s 44 spl with 3" barrels left the factory with cyls that had chambers long enough to accept 44 Mag cartridges. S&W spent an awful lot of money on a recall to get those guns back and correct the problem.
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"According to S&W, they are all the same after WWII. I've called and asked."
That doesn't hold water right off the bat. When the .44 Magnum was developed in the 1950s, S&W used different heat treating. Plus, depending on who you talk to, factory employees are notorious for giving bad information.
I have a M544, a 5" .44-40. I asked Roy Jinks, the historian and former head of the handgun production, if it was safe to fit a .44 Magnum cylinder. Mr Jinks said no, the heat treatment was different on the non magnum frames.
That doesn't hold water right off the bat. When the .44 Magnum was developed in the 1950s, S&W used different heat treating. Plus, depending on who you talk to, factory employees are notorious for giving bad information.
I have a M544, a 5" .44-40. I asked Roy Jinks, the historian and former head of the handgun production, if it was safe to fit a .44 Magnum cylinder. Mr Jinks said no, the heat treatment was different on the non magnum frames.
I can't see converting a .44 spl to a mag. A model 24 is a sturdy frame which means it can shoot some respectable loads which will do much of what a mag can. A .44 spl at 1100 fps is quite respectable
If you don't reload sell the model 24, there are people out there that wish they had one. Then buy a model 29 and you'll be further ahead.
I'm a fan of both the spl and mag but prefer the spl now that I'm older. To be honest I own 3 .44 magnum S&W revolvers, not one has ever seen a mag load. For my shooting the atomic loads just aren't needed.
If you don't reload sell the model 24, there are people out there that wish they had one. Then buy a model 29 and you'll be further ahead.
I'm a fan of both the spl and mag but prefer the spl now that I'm older. To be honest I own 3 .44 magnum S&W revolvers, not one has ever seen a mag load. For my shooting the atomic loads just aren't needed.
True on all counts.
For example:
• Heat treatment was eliminated by order Oct. 12, 1945 for cylinders on the & .32 ‘I’ frames, K22, K32 & K38, and the 44 Spl & 45 N frames: S&W 1857 – 1945. And the .357 continued to have heat treatment as well as all subsequent magnum cartridge models.
Who knows what changes S&W has undertaken in the subsequent 73 years. Not only will we not get specific information from their CS people that answer the phone, but those who do know the specifics are extremely unlikely permitted to divulge those trade secrets.
So we are left with only two definitively conclusive alternatives:
1. Have the revolvers privately and expensively lab tested for confirmation of strength,
2. or follow S&W's directions supplied with every gun; use only the specified ammunition. Which does not include shooting 44 mag in a 44 special revolver.
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DWalt
Member
It is possible to reload the .44 Special case to near-.44 Magnum performance levels. In fact that is exactly what Elmer Keith did during the period leading up to the production of the .44 Magnum (using 2400 powder). You can say much the same about loading a .38 Special case to near-.357 Magnum performance levels. So if you reload and simply have to have more power than the standard .44 Special loads provide (I can't say why), it is easily obtained in the .44 Special case without doing anything to the gun. Metallurgically, I can't say if that is safe or not for your Model 24. Personally, I am one of those who shoots normal .44 Special-level handloads in my .44 Magnum revolvers.
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keith44spl
Member
Us ol gun cranks do all sorts of things........
** I once owned an early 6 1/2" 44 Spl. (box marked 24-3)
frame was stamped 29-3 packin a 44 special barrel & cylinder.
.
** I once owned an early 6 1/2" 44 Spl. (box marked 24-3)
frame was stamped 29-3 packin a 44 special barrel & cylinder.
.
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Us ol gun cranks do all sorts of things........
** I once owned an early 6 1/2" 44 Spl. (box marked 24-3)
frame was stamped 29-3 packin a 44 special barrel & cylinder.
.
Ah hah! A 44 Mag Military! But with a target barrel.
keith44spl
Member
keith44spl
Member
A model 29-3 cylinder will work best....
Barrel butt will need to be adjusted for gap and the lead in the forcing cone re-cut.
As far as heat treatment goes...
It'll take quite a few magnum round to stretch the frame out of spec as to head space and barrel/cyl. gap.
We all know the 44 mag factory ammo of today is not the 44 magnum ammunition of the 50's.
What with all that said, I'd load my own 44 Special with the old Keith load,
or the Buffalo Bore Heavy 44 Spl loading and just roll with that as is.
Not a big deal.
.
Jim,
Check out the frame to barrel rib fit....No cleavage.
.
That's a beautiful fit. Did you mill down the barrel rib just a bit?
F75gunslinger
Member
SLT223
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Us ol gun cranks do all sorts of things........
** I once owned an early 6 1/2" 44 Spl. (box marked 24-3)
frame was stamped 29-3 packin a 44 special barrel & cylinder.
.
I very much like that!!!
A piece of lath and a lathe are not the same thing. FYI
Why do I continue to rely on spellcheck???
Thx,
