After sorting through the pile of trainwrecks for my self-guided/self-taught expansion of 'smithing skills, I decided to go with #5 next.

Project name: Bullshooter

Bullshooter is someone's old PPC gun that was sold as "missing pieces, needs repair". It's a 14-2 from around 1965 with an unknown bull barrel, a BoMar rib, and Davis stocks, put together by an unknown maker at an unknown time. It had a DAO hammer that was visible in the pictures but no trigger and unknown other missing internal parts. The only other clue from the auction pictures was that the sideplate screws were also missing.

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I wasn't sure what I would find when I opened this one up. It was a roll of the dice....it could be that someone upgraded and took their "good" trigger with them, or it could be that the pins were all broken off inside and I had just purchased a pile of parts.

Here's what it looked like inside. I've got pins!

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It will likely be a good shooter once you get all the parts in it. Hope it works out for you.

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protocalldesign.com

Stacking the deck in my favor as much as I could, I broke open a parts kit for a 15-3 to grab the missing pieces. I have other plans for the DAO hammer that came with this one, and the 15-3 kit had a semi-target hammer in it, so the hammer, trigger, rebound slide, hammer block and hand all came from the kit. There was a stock rebound slide spring in the kit also, but I went with a Power Custom 12 pound rebound spring for two reasons: I wanted to see what difference it made and I had one.

The trigger was installed into the frame without the hand just so that I could get a feel for how the trigger/cylinder stop interface worked. The original cylinder stop was still in the frame so I left it right where it was. It looked like someone had tried unsuccessfully to remove it and had the spring all cattywampus. A few minutes with a dental pick got the spring in straight. The trigger had a sharp edge on it that hung up on the cylinder stop, so I took a few light passes on the trigger with a ceramic stone and it smoothed out the operation of the cylinder stop considerably.

Installing the hand onto the trigger was the first PITA. The hand spring was still in the trigger, so I got a freebee there. After getting YouTube certified in hand installation, it was a simple matter of using a vice, a dental pick, and all three of my hands to hold the spring and get the hand installed in the right orientation. Eventually I hope to be able to do it with only two hands and in less than 20 minutes.

My next issue was that the hand from the kit had just a slight amount of drag on the right side of the frame window. I have the right file to open the frame window, but I decided that I could buy quite a few new hands for the cost of a frame. I used a hard arkansas stone to very carefully polish the right side of the hand, removing as little material as I could. That seemed to take care of the slight drag.

I got to use one of my shiny new tools when it came time to install the rebound slide and it sucked. I got lots of practice using the rebound slide spring tool thingy for taking the rebound slide out as I worked on this one, but for assembly I just can't seem to get it to work. It'll compress the spring but it slips off center and runs into the side of the rebound slide and won't go that extra little bit to hold the spring on the pin. Back to YouTube for another certification.

There is a video out there from an old gentleman who says he worked for Smith and Wesson for his entire career and only used one tool for assembling revolvers: A screwdriver that he ground himself. Hmmmm....one of the toolboxes that I bought at an estate auction had a screwdriver in it that looked quite a bit like that one....maybe? YES! The previous owner of the toolbox must have run into the same problem because there was a screwdriver ground exactly the same way as the one used by the gentleman in the video, and it worked perfectly for setting the rebound slide in place. The special screwdriver is ground with a very long taper on the sides and will fit inside the end of the rebound spring, allowing it to be compressed and set in place on the pin.

Here we are with the new pieces in place:

Edit to add: As I was looking at the picture I thought to myself "Why is there an extra sideplate screw hole?" It was then that I realized that I had forgotten to put in the trigger stop. Oh well....I need practice taking things apart and putting them back together.

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I learned quite a few things during this session, and I fully realize that what I was doing really was more "armorer" work than "gunsmithing".......I'll eventually get there.

My next learning experience was related to the mainspring and strain screw. While the sideplate was off the mainspring was either completely removed or installed with just the slightest amount of tension on the strain screw to lessen the amount of pressure on unsupported hammer pin.

It worked fine in double action set up that way, but I thought I was completely hosed when I tried to cock the hammer single action and it wouldn't travel all the way back. Some careful examination revealed that there was interference at the hammer strut unless the strain screw was completely tight. Setting the strain screw all the way solved the single action problem.

Maybe everyone else here knew about that, but it was a first for me.

The next adventure was in fitting the hammer block. I expected to have problems everywhere except that one.

The first indication that I had a problem was that the trigger wouldn't reset if the sideplate was on. Without the sideplate everything worked fine.

I spent quite a bit of time messing with the rebound slide and rebound spring until I figured out that there was another piece involved when the sideplate was on: the hammer block. All my work without the sideplate also involved having the hammer block out of the way. The block only went in when the sideplate was on.

After quite a bit of time manipulating the action and watching every place that the hammer block could possibly interfere, I found a small burr at the top of the hammer block. A few minutes to radius the top edges where it rides past the hammer and bolt with a file took care of the trigger reset.

Keep us posted.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Now that the trigger, hammer, and other stuff was all playing happily together, it was time to found out just how lucky (or not) I really was.

What would the timing be like?

The parts kit contained the cylinder from the donor 15-3, but I wanted to see what would happen with the original 14-2 cylinder.

Last week in Las Vegas I demonstrated my ability to turn a $100 bill into 16 cents several times, but today I won. Every chamber locks into place well before the hammer reaches full cock in both single and double action.



How about the trigger pull? I'm not ready to say that I did an "action job" on this one because there was absolutely no work done to any sear engagement surfaces by me. I did use matching parts that may have been worked on in their previous incarnation but I didn't touch that part. While I was chasing the trigger reset I did quite a bit of "fluff and buff" on the internals (I can see my reflection in all 4 sides of the rebound slide) but that was it.

With the 12lb Power Custom rebound spring the single action pull had a low of 38 ounces and a high of 44 ounces. With the "stock" spring from the parts kit the single action pull is 48 ounces on all 6 chambers. I've stayed with the heavier pull because it was more consistent.

I haven't yet checked the endplay, yoke alignment, or put a range rod into it to check the chamber alignment, but I have a feeling that all of those will turn out to be ok. I could probably just clean it up and go shoot it, but I want to play with my other new toys/tools. That'll be after Christmas. Hopefully we'll test fire this one for the New Year.

Edit to add: I'm curious about whether or not other people have noticed inconsistent trigger pulls with lighter springs

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I wouldn't give more than $3.00 for that..........Then I would use it as a trotline anchor.......I don't rescue other people junk and mistakes.

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S&W Accumulator

I just thought of another place where I got lucky: the yoke retaining screw from the 15-3 worked perfectly in the 14-2 without any issues. My working theory is that using a parts kit from the same era as the project gun greatly increases the probability of having parts work together as opposed to taking pot-luck and mixing timelines.

We'll find out more about that theory as I work through the various projects.

This one isn't done, but it's at a good stopping place for now. Look for updates on this one in early January.

Next up: Trainwreck #3 "Short and Sweet"

Thanks for the feedback, Mike. I used to think that way and bought only nice guns and paid to have them worked on by expensive people. At the moment I have the time, the money, and the desire to learn how to do more than just wipe things down after I shoot them.

The entire goal here is to use "junk and mistakes" for learning. I'd rather learn how to push a file working on a clapped out old revolver than on my Perazzi.

If you're enjoying this saga, you'll really love the next one. Here is project "Short and Sweet" :

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There is something to be said about the satisfaction of making a "silk purse out of a sow's ear"!

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I’m currently working on a barn find Mossburg .22. I’ve sourced a magazine and rear sight. Refinishing the stock and removing rust. It will never be a show piece but I already know it shoots straight.

I have several that may not be pretty, but by golly they will shoot. They work for what they were/are intended for!

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I had a few minutes tonight after She Who Must Be Obeyed (SWMBO) went to bed, so I thought I would quickly finish up the initial work on Bullshooter.

Yeah, right.

The adventure started out well with the endshake test. After cleaning the cylinder and forcing cone, I broke out the feeler gauges and started poking. The cylinder gap all the way around was a tight .009". That's towards the high end of the spec, but I had to remind myself that this one wasn't made to chase maximum velocity with jacketed bullets and buckets full of WW296. This guy was made to run all day on small doses of lead and flammable dirt.

Poking a wooden wedge between the recoil shield and the cylinder produced very little movement. With the wedge in place all chambers measured out at a tight .007", so .002" of endshake. Time to move on...

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Next up was to check the yoke to frame fit and the yoke alignment.

Frame fit was beautiful. This gun has had a ball-detent installed on the yoke, so I was a little worried about what I would do if the yoke flange didn't meet the frame correctly. That turned out to be a non-issue.

The initial yoke alignment test failed, but just barely. It was so close that I was able to line things up by simply holding the frame and pressing on the yoke barrel with both thumbs.

Good so far.....

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This is where it all went south. I got distracted because the gun was talking to me....I noticed that there was a rub mark on the hammer. A closer look with the hammer installed revealed that the bolt looked quite a bit like a cheese grater in that same spot.

No worries - I'll just take off the thumbpiece, pop the bolt out and polish it a bit. No big deal.

What I forgot about was the Zing! when the spring and plunger went flying off to join several AR-15 detent pins, one AR buffer retainer pin, and a 1911 mainspring cap in the bowels of the garage. If I ever move out of this house I'll be able to build several guns just with the parts that are behind and under the shelves.

The nice thing about working with a parts kit is that all I had to do was reach over and grab the replacement spring and plunger out of the package.

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Once the bolt was smoothed up, all I had to do was pop it back in.

Yep, just pop it back in. No problem. It just pops back in.

This time I tried to be a bit smarter and worked inside a plastic bag. The bag saved me from the Zing! twice.

Over the course of the next hour I tried every way I could think of to just pop the bolt back in. No go. At all. No matter what angle I tried or what tool I used to hold the plunger in place it just wouldn't go that last fraction of an inch. I finally convinced myself that even a clone of Daniel B. Wesson with perfect hair and the whitest of teeth would not be able to get this damn thing back in. Time to think and look....

Was there something blocking the frame channel? No.

Would the bolt fit in place without the spring and plunger? Yes, quite easily.

Does the plunger actually fit into the hole in the bolt? Yes, it does.

How far will the plunger go into the bolt when the spring is compressed? Not very far...and that's one heck of a spring. Why is it so hard to compress?

Working inside my bag again, I used a piece of bar stock as a pushing-thing and tried to see how far the plunger would go into the bolt. There was a solid 1/8" of an inch that stuck out no matter how hard I pushed.

I decided to sit and mumble to myself for a bit, so I eased the pressure off and pulled the plunger out with my fingers. The plunger came out, the spring came out, and the second spring came out.

Wait, what?

The original spring had not launched into the bowels of the garage. Only the plunger went flying. The original spring stayed inside the bolt the whole time. It wasn't until I mashed the replacement spring into it really hard that it decided to come out of hiding to taunt me.

With only one spring in the hole the bolt really did just pop back in.

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With the bolt back in place I decided that it would be a smart move for me to put the gun back together and call it a night. I greased everything up, put it all back together without having to look at any pictures (yay me), and everything works fine. The grease on the side of the hammer is not being disturbed by cycling the action so I don't think there's any rubbing going on now...

One more quick test before it went back in the safe: the range rod. I don't have a match .38 range rod, but the service rod dropped all the way through to the firing pin without any issues on all cylinders.

It's time to take this one out and shoot it. Look for a range report on New Years Eve.

This has been a fantastic thread so far and I’ve absolutely enjoyed your writing style! The only detraction was one absolutely DB post, #9 and then you go and reply with post #11 and I like you even more, and I will swear to you — I couldn’t do the same myself. I can only imagine some people did not get a hand across their wide mouth when they needed it in life. I’ve never understood threadpooping, I’m never likely to either.

An excellent yarn you’re spinning!

Fun thread!

I bought three rough Model 65 police trade ins to learn the internals and how everything comes out and goes back in.

And learned the plastic bag trick the hard way trying to remove and reinstall the rebound slide spring without a (second) launch to oblivion.

Looking forward to “Short and sweet!”

Fwiw, bronze wool and a bit of synthetic motor oil plus some elbow grease can do amazing clean ups on blued or SS guns that look like hell.

Thank you both - I appreciate it and I'm glad that I can give something back to a fine group of people.

I own 46 Smith & Wesson revolvers and up until these TrainWreck threads started I had never had a sideplate off of any of them. The insides of a revolver were always something mystical and I was absolutely sure that if I took off the sideplate a bazillion intricate parts would evaporate into the ether. The result was that I've paid my friend Nelson Ford a truly obscene amount of money over the last 30 years.

My first 'smithing experience was at the age of 16 when I took my Dad's 1911 to a gunsmith in a brown paper bag because I couldn't figure out how the sear/disconnector/trigger relationship worked after disassembling it.

Last year Nelson told me that he was thinking about retiring. That scared the bejeesus out of me and I decided then that I needed to learn to do some of this stuff on my own. I'll never be a true artist like he is, but I should be able to handle advanced basic functions. Knowing that he's still there and that if I get in over my head I can show up with a brown paper bag and a bottle of Blanton's makes me feel better about jumping in. I guess that makes Nelson my imaginary emotional support llama. I'll have to tell him that when I call him on New Years Eve....

Excellent thread! Went and going through similar, although not to the same extent. Have taken notice the oem rebound springs are ground flat on the ends, and the special tool works better on them. Then noticed the special tool tips were rounded, which didn't play well with the aftermarket springs. Flattened the ends of the tips, and deepened the notch. Better, but still pita and will try the ground screwdriver tip, which is sincerely appreciated!

A small Phillips screwdriver or hex tip works well, also.

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protocalldesign.com

Lotsa fun.

Enjoying your journey and description.

John

My, but aren't you just a little ray of sunshine. You couldn't just click the "back" button instead of dumping on someone else's thread? Not even on Christmas Eve? WOW!

Great thread Shotguncoach. I think it is really cool that you are fixing old guns to teach yourself basic gunsmithing skills - and sharing your experience with the rest of us. Even though there are some people who will never "get" it.

I've done a little bit of the same and it is a really cool feeling to turn a former basket-case back into a working firearm!

Great job, keep it up. Your threads so far are very fun to read. Don't let the negative-Nancies get ya' down.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

I too am enjoying this thread. I have made all these mistakes and a few more.
It is a very enjoyable to be able to fix these things and have fun with them. When the revolver is done, and works well, it is a big feeling of accomplishment.
With the price of good used S&Ws this is more topical every month.
Can’t wait for next installment

I am enjoying this thread as well. Thanks for sharing.

I remember sign in a gun shop that read something like:

Strip, Clean and Reassemble- $45.00
You Strip, we assemble- $60.00

I laughed hard at that!

I think it is really smart to do stuff like this. Look at everything you learned and the value of that in itself. It is harder and harder and more expensive to find actual revolver smiths.

Unless it is really damaged there is no reason a frame can not become an excellent shooter. If fact no reason the can't be made better than a factory gun. It isn't all about collecting or collector value.

I would like to find a Bomar rib set up. I want to make a 45 acp PPC Gun

When finished your "boat anchor" may well out shoot some guys pristine factory gun that he got with the box and tools.

I keep thinking of the 2 Registered Magnums that have shown up on the forum that have paperwork showing they were sent back to the factory for timing issues shortly after purchase, that and the reports of poor results from sending guns back to the factory for repairs.

Yes, there is some precision involved, but actually they are just not that complicated to work on.

I am getting the impression you’re more “adventurous” than I’ve been. Maybe I need to find more of a “train wreck!” I would like to learn how to fix timing issues when one or two cylinders are out of time, especially late.

Fwiw, while waiting for a job interview at a gun shop I asked one of the counter guys if I could look at the two 3” 686s they had (maybe four or five revolvers out of a couple hundred guns on display.) Both were taken in trade. One had perfect timing, the other had two cylinders which were late, and so didn’t lock up before the hammer reached full cock.

The guy asked what I was doing cycling the second revolver, which had the perfect timing. I told him and then showed him how to check the timing and showed him the difference between the two revolvers. He had never heard of timing, how to check it or how to fix it.

I’m sure the out of time revolver left the factory like that.

Also, as little as I know about revolvers compared to many of our members here, I’m the “revolver expert” at both shops I work at, because nobody else knows anything at all.

Absolutely! These old revolvers are mechanical things built on designs that are at least 100 years old.

They aren't aren't so complicated that today's young folks should be so completely baffled by how they work - even though they aren't digital.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

What S&W revolver actions are is extremely clever. The way the trigger trips the cylinder stop, the rebound slide both resetting the trigger and acting as a hammer block, how the trigger engages the double action sear to start the hammer and then gets transferred to the hammer itself and also the trigger moving the hand up to rotate the cylinder. How the cylinder bolt releases the cylinder via center pin both front and rear and blocks the hammer when not home.

Most of the real precision you don't have to mess with. The trigger and hammer studs, the holes in the trigger for the stud, hand and strut. Mostly just the DA sear engagement. A little shine on the sears and sliding surfaces. You can mess with the springs which are not precision nor expensive. Hands and stops are not expensive either.

@John Patrick - one of the trainwrecks that I have (project "warhorse") is out of time by varying amounts on every chamber. I'm sure that they won't all respond the same way to a single fix and some individual work will be required. We'll get there together!

I enjoy this thread very much; thank you for posting this information. where does one find a "parts kit" or was the parts from your stash?

You can definitely find them on Gunbroker — usually a company that is in charge of de-milling seized guns. They disassemble as much as they can, collect all the parts, then torch or cut the frame so it is “legally destroyed.”

They sometimes appear at gun shows, but Gunbroker has them often. And as they are legally NOT a firearm, you don’t need the assistance of an FFL to receive them.

Individual parts can be sourced from Numrich.

Gun Parts & Firearm Accessories | Numrich Gun Parts

(Like a replacement rebound slide spring after you’ve launched one into oblivion.)

I've been getting my kits here:

EveryGunPart.com Smith & Wesson

They had a really good sale around Thanksgiving and I bought 10 kits.

Edit: If a 4" 624 kit shows up, I call dibs!

The OP in post #4 mentions that his shiny new tool didn't work for reinstalling the rebound slide spring and he reverted to a home-made tool made from a screwdriver.

I too had to learn this stuff the hard way, but after seeing "Larry" (on Midway You Tube) also "slip" with his homemade screwdriver tool, I ordered a shiny new tool from Gunsmither and lo and behold...the tool works perfect BOTH ways disassemble and reinstall). Comes color coded red and black tips, with decent instructions, even a sketch on the backside.

The "fork" works just great, no slip, no "gotcha", both eyes still intact.

Worth the money? I think so and I am no gunsmith, just a curious guy and a tool hound anyway so it has sure made my life easier around S& W revo's.

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__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

I like your style. You have a nice, methodical way of teaching yourself, and you're doing well.
One slight correction in terminology-
Those little poles are more correctly called "studs".
Since you're becoming an ex-spurt, ya wanna get the words right.
I disassembled my first S&W ( a 5 screw 4" Pre 29) over 59 years ago. That rebound slide was a learning experience for sure. I finally figured out how to do it with a small tapered screwdriver, and I've been doing it that way ever since. No problem. I did add the rebound slide tool to a Brownell's order years ago, but I find it cumbersome, slow, and often annoying.
I keep meaning to order this one that cmans posted, but I keep forgettin....

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thank you Sir - I do appreciate the correction. Words do matter. AR-15’s use pins and I mixed the terminology. I think there’s even a thread about that in another section of the forum….

To all, feel free to call me out on stuff like this. The other one that I know I have issues with is “grips” vs “stocks”.

@Cmans - that tool looks familiar…I think there may be one in my pile of second hand tools. I’ll check tonight. Thank you!

All of Sevens statements are 100% true and correct.

FWIW, "parts kits" for common guns can also be found on eBay.

It's worth doing a search on both eBay and GunBroker when you're looking for inexpensive parts to salvage a "basket case" gun.

JMO and YMMV.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Looks good. Is that one or two flyers? 😁😁😁

I was a Shotgun coach too at one time. Taught Combat Shotgun.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Bullshooter got test fired today and passed with flying colors. 100% reliable and a joy to shoot.

The sights were apparently set for 7 yards so the first shots were pretty high. This was my first experience with a Bo-Mar rib and I really enjoyed it. Easy to see and easy to adjust.

That great big barrel makes for a very steady hold and rimfire level recoil, but I really have to pay attention to the front sight. Any lapse of concentration and the muzzle drops fast. It will certainly help build wrist and forearm strength.

I didn't have any wadcutter ammo loaded so I used 158 grain lead semi-wadcuters. Bullshooter liked them just fine. Two-handed single action slow fire put every shot into the X ring at 15 yards (previous post). My shooting buddy was practicing controlled pairs from a low ready, so I did the same for 12 shots with Bullshooter. Recovery time for the second shot was very similar to shooting a K-22 thanks to the massive barrel. I'm not quite as fast (yet) with a revolver as I am with a 1911, so now I have a new goal. I will say, though, that controlled pairs with Bullshooter are more accurate - probably due to the extra weight, lower recoil, and the extra split second for sight picture while I crank the trigger. Sometime this spring I'll run some back to back tests with a timer.

Overall, Bullshooter is the most pleasant centerfire handgun I've ever shot. I'm really glad that I started this journey.

Next up is some additional work on the face of the trigger. I like the narrow trigger but the sharp serrations have to go. We'll see how close I can get to a mirror polish using just hand tools and sandpaper. I know a dremel would be faster but we're supposed to be learning the old ways here.

As we were packing up my shooting buddy asked what powder I was using. All I had to do was hold up my hand and he knew....

Edit: Grrr...another sideways picture. The flyers went high, not left.

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That's two.

I shifted my grip slightly and blew up what would have been a nice group.

I also loathe the serrated trigger and the only thing worse than a serrated trigger on an excellent double action S&W revolver is the super wide, gangly serrated “target trigger” on my favorite double action S&W revolvers.

No custom PPC build I’ve seen comes with a bloated and serrated trigger. That’s because it’s the wrong trigger for smooth double action shooting.

Thanks for a very interesting thread.

Consider getting a "combat trigger" for bullshooter. Smooth and not too wide. Typical of what's found on my 1980s K frames.

If you like the trigger pull that you have. You might consider just filing or grinding off the serrations.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.