Pocket Carry Competition Association

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David Sinko

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This looks interesting. It appears to have rules similar to IDPA but is for pocket guns only. Most people I know who own pocket guns can't shoot them worth a damn and would never dare to shoot for score, but the hardcore among us should find this appealing. I really enjoy competing with my pocket guns so I'll support this. And it looks like reloads will be on the clock too. I never thought I'd see a venue of competition where my 940 would be considered a "gamer gun" but this just might be it.

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David Sinko said:
This looks interesting. It appears to have rules similar to IDPA but is for pocket guns only. Most people I know who own pocket guns can't shoot them worth a damn and would never dare to shoot for score, but the hardcore among us should find this appealing. I really enjoy competing with my pocket guns so I'll support this. And it looks like reloads will be on the clock too. I never thought I'd see a venue of competition where my 940 would be considered a "gamer gun" but this just might be it.
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It looks like a scam anybody can start a web site and charge people for membership. If you find out more after you pay them let us know.
 
Looked over your link. Sounds interesting, but I can see some bad habits coming from this in favor of sighting-scoring on target. Many pocket guns have sights (if you call it that) and are utilized for quick shots, short distances at a humans K-zone to disable a BG. Many of us prefer the point shooting (unsighted fire) with our compacts...An example of what I'm referring to...Some time back, Michael Bane on a TV "Guns-Ammo" IIRC, was illustrating firing at an extremely close range, almost arms length. He pulled his pistol in a classic Weaver w/two hand sighted fire and blasted away. I almost fell out of my chair..In reality, the time it took for him to do all this; he was a goner from a knife or pistol attack. I believe he thought he was doing the right thing (might have been at GunSite in AZ); but didn't let his instincts kick in.
 
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Not very similar to IDPA rules; more of a "son-of-IPSC" ripoff of IDPA "BUG" rules.

Makes me wonder if they are aware of the "carry gun" matches being done in Edmond, OK, with rules that are closer to IDPA but still not quite IDPA.

The posted draft rules have holes in them you can drive a truck through, and will need major patching when the gamers show up. OK for local fun matches, but not for sanctioned matches.

Thanks, but no thanks. Even the IDPA BUG matches degenerate to gaming with the barely legal Glocks and Rugers dominating the match. A 442 does not stand a chance.
 
To this day many believe that IDPA is a scam. The complainers are told "If you don't like it, then start your own gun game." Apparently somebody has done just that so I am willing to give it consideration.

You think point shooting is the solution to your problem? Great, then come out and prove it. If I need a few extra tenths of a second to hit with the sights and you can do it (get the hits and not just make noise) faster by point shooting, you will have beaten me and I will have learned something. As far as I'm concerned, that's what the match is for. "Freestyle" means you can point shoot every single target if you wish.

There are lots of learning opportunities at this type of match but people need to be willing to participate.

Dave Sinko
 
David, I'm not knocking this organization; just added a few caveats. Look at it this way, most pocket pistols by definition are small; hence smaller parts-distances of movement, etc. It must be almost perfect for total reliability. Being a competitor, some will try to enhance their accuracy by tinkering with trigger, handloads, etc. IMHO, will cause diminishing returns in reliability if it's used for street carry. If not for that purpose; get after it: sounds like fun...
 
Looked over your link. Sounds interesting, but I can see some bad habits coming from this in favor of sighting-scoring on target. Many pocket guns have sights (if you call it that) and are utilized for quick shots, short distances at a humans K-zone to disable a BG. Many of us prefer the point shooting (unsighted fire) with our compacts...An example of what I'm referring to...Some time back, Michael Bane on a TV "Guns-Ammo" IIRC, was illustrating firing at an extremely close range, almost arms length. He pulled his pistol in a classic Weaver w/two hand sighted fire and blasted away. I almost fell out of my chair..In reality, the time it took for him to do all this; he was a goner from a knife or pistol attack. I believe he thought he was doing the right thing (might have been at GunSite in AZ); but didn't let his instincts kick in.
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Big Foot said:
David, I'm not knocking this organization; just added a few caveats. Look at it this way, most pocket pistols by definition are small; hence smaller parts-distances of movement, etc. It must be almost perfect for total reliability. Being a competitor, some will try to enhance their accuracy by tinkering with trigger, handloads, etc. IMHO, will cause diminishing returns in reliability if it's used for street carry. If not for that purpose; get after it: sounds like fun...
Click to expand...

In my experience you need to know how to use the sights because not everything happens at arms length. Point shooting has it's merits but to ignore marksmanship skills with a particular gun makes no sense. I suppose it would make a good excuse when your score sucks though.

I've had no trouble qualifying with my BUGs - j frames and Kel-tecs - from 3 to 25yds and all of them have been proven 100% reliable without any tinkering or tweaking.

Should a club in my area start holding such events I'd certainly give them a try. I enjoy shooting IDPA with my duty gun and gear and feel that any trigger time can be good practice.
 
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I competed in the inaugrual PCCA match yesterday. Point shooting will work in some cases and the game will teach you how. For us who have shot this way it will feel comfortable this way. For the other part of some, you will need some sights whether it is a ditch or adjustable.
There ain't a game out there that does not have its critics. At my age, been there done that. This competition just started and the rule book is a living book. I just hope to hell he does not put some die hard IPSC, USPSA, or ICORE shooter on the rules committee.
Yeah, a little ICORE and some IDPA. Scam? Hardly. Copy? I don't know and I don't care. 3rd Saturday of each month I plan to have my M60-10 ready to go. Defender or Ultra II is in the making.
Caswell Ranch offers some interesting days to shoot ICORE, IDPA, Ruger Rimfire, PCCA, and he may start cowboy pistol only on the fifth Saturday.
Home
Parent corp. of PCCA.
Caswell Ranch Shooting Sports |Ruger Rimfire|IDPA|Shooting Range
Anyone know Dean Brevitt? Look in the dictionary under grand master.
See you at Dean's.
 
Bigfoot, not all of us got off the banana boat yesterday. I have competed in different disciplines for over 30 years. I trick out my own DA revolvers, SA revolvers, pump shotguns (M97 and others), and lever guns.
I saw Kimber, Beretta, S&W, Charter Arms, Rossi, Kel-Tec, Kahr, Sig, and others represented yesterday. Those that malfunctioned were the "as expected" malfunctioners.
I need a pair of grips that set the web of my hand back from the grip. Know of any? I will reduce hammer spring power and I will reload Federals on one of my three Dillon 650s. I will polish all necessary internal surfaces. I will replace the front sight with a "hi-viz".
C'mon guys, its half full.
 
At our Sportsman's Club we hold a monthly Defensive Pistol Match. It is loosely based on the IDPA Rule Book. We are not using the Gun Box. Pretty much come on out with what you have. We have a couple Older IDPA ESR guns with 5" barrels we let compete. In ESR we now have a 5" JM625, a Power Custom 5" 625, a 4" 625, and a 4" 610 shooting against each other. No big beal. They pretty much trade places winning.

We have a Division we have been calling CCW 5 Shot. It is basicly an IDPA BUG Match with a few changes. One is we are shooting the same course of fire as all other Divisions. No special BUG Course of fire. We reload on some stages, same as in all other Divisions. All of our other Divisions are set up in shot strings of 6 rounds, or 6 rounds and a reload on the clock. In the BUG it is 5 shots, or 5 shots and a reload on the clock. If you are shooting a sub compact Glock, it still only has 5 rounds in it.

Just a small Club Match, and so far we have no one Gaming it.

The main advantage I see to the BUG Division is getting the J Frames, and other small carry guns in use and practiced with instead of just carried. So far my 638 has been holding it's own.
 
I would love to see a match decated to the un-modified 5 shot pocket pistols. I carry a 642 in my pocket and I believe the way to really learn to shoot it is in competition.

The local ICORE club I shoot with, charges $5 for a match, and $3 to shoot a second gun. I shoot a Model 64 normally but pay the extra $3 for the second gun, and using my 642 drawn from my pocket, and reloaded with loose rounds in my other pocket.

Of course I don't win anything, you can't compete time wise, but I'm really learning to shoot my carry revolver.
 
I'm gonna suggest a pocket gun match to our area steel match guys. Sounds like fun!
 
Like RedCent, I also shot the initial PCCA match. I've shot IDPA, USPSA, ICORE, and Ruger Rimfire. I enjoy them all but this might become my favorite.

The stages tend to be short - if you follow what the founder intends I don't think there are a lot of ways to game the sport. If this takes off, you're going to see a lot of steel framed revolvers (SP-101s, j-frames, and Colts) and you'll see a lot of 3" 1911s

The sport is designed with higher time penalties for hits outside the A zone. Also has the concept of shooting the biggest threat firs - shoot the target with the gun before the target with a knife.

A number of folks had big surprises - and big time penalties, if they just tried to point and shoot. Oh, did I mention that if you have a full shot in the knife or gun then it counts as a miss? Some targets only required one hit - but if your bullet went into the gun you had a 'mike' and a 'not hit on target' OUCH!
 
Big Foot said:
Looked over your link. Sounds interesting, but I can see some bad habits coming from this in favor of sighting-scoring on target. Many pocket guns have sights (if you call it that) and are utilized for quick shots, short distances at a humans K-zone to disable a BG. Many of us prefer the point shooting (unsighted fire) with our compacts...An example of what I'm referring to...Some time back, Michael Bane on a TV "Guns-Ammo" IIRC, was illustrating firing at an extremely close range, almost arms length. He pulled his pistol in a classic Weaver w/two hand sighted fire and blasted away. I almost fell out of my chair..In reality, the time it took for him to do all this; he was a goner from a knife or pistol attack. I believe he thought he was doing the right thing (might have been at GunSite in AZ); but didn't let his instincts kick in.
Click to expand...
Gotta agree with Big Foot on this. That type of move will get you killed. IMHO, even habits developed in IPSC competition will get you killed. You should not burst from behind a barricade with an empty weapon and reload on the run to a new position. If you must burst from cover to re-position yourself, you should reload BEFORE you move. That way, you can at least lay down some surpressive fire or in a best case scenario, take out some BG's while you're out in the open.
 
I have competed with a semi most of my adult life. I find it very interesting using a revolver. It has taught me (dry fire at home) the revolver trigger. It has taught me focus and (some)patience.
I attended some county and state LEO qualifications long ago and shot IPSC in the 80s. We were taught the "Rock" early on. The instincts to fire from a hand pressing hip stance is still there. Laughable or not, I agree with Steven Seagall's stance when moving when spaces are tight. Strong hand and arm firmly pressing hip with pistol at slight cant. Put your correct mindset on and you WILL fire from the hip.
All the games have problems because we cannot go one on one, although paintball pistols woud make for an exciting house hunt. I firmly believe the true instinct would make you shoot "point".
I believe PCCA adds more ability, knowledge, mindset, and reaction. And it allows me to shoot. Fellowship with like minded people and practice for the ultimate life moment.
 
Here we have what we call a B (back) U (up) G (gun) Match
* Gun must fit 5 1/4" X 7" box Class Revevoler Semi - Hide out This is the small autos.
* A blue plastic is use for the draw as the location
of the draw is in the coarse of fire. ( safety )
* Stage is set 5 shoot Net. We use Idpa Tragets Score a little different the best hit is head. This help the J fames out and yes the 940 9mm loaded down a little for less jump is the ticket for revelover class.
We have app. 10 to 15 shooter and growing this will be our 6 match.
 
Has anybody actually shot a PCCA match? I have done two so far; one with a 2" Model 64 and the other with a 2" Model 940. It is my opinion that penalties for hits just outside the 0 ring are too harsh and encourage shooting that is far too slow for any kind of meaningful or realistic defensive application. I have always believed that good hits are far more important than blazing fast hits that are poorly placed. That said, this scoring method seems to be the other end of the extreme with more of an emphasis on target shooting.

Also, both matches that I shot were at an indoor range with somewhat less than ideal lighting. I had never realized how difficult it is to see the sights on a fixed sight stainless steel snub revolver under certain lighting conditions. While I have excellent vision and I can shoot these revolvers very well with ideal lighting, I struggled to see my sights under these conditions. When the distances increase or the scenarios become more demanding (head shots only, for example), the ability to make the accurate shots quickly suffers greatly. So in this sense I have definitely learned something.

I believe that the IDPA scoring system is better, in that both accuracy and speed have their place.

Dave Sinko
 
David Sinko said:
Has anybody actually shot a PCCA match? I have done two so far; one with a 2" Model 64 and the other with a 2" Model 940. It is my opinion that penalties for hits just outside the 0 ring are too harsh and encourage shooting that is far too slow for any kind of meaningful or realistic defensive application. I have always believed that good hits are far more important than blazing fast hits that are poorly placed. That said, this scoring method seems to be the other end of the extreme with more of an emphasis on target shooting.

Also, both matches that I shot were at an indoor range with somewhat less than ideal lighting. I had never realized how difficult it is to see the sights on a fixed sight stainless steel snub revolver under certain lighting conditions. While I have excellent vision and I can shoot these revolvers very well with ideal lighting, I struggled to see my sights under these conditions. When the distances increase or the scenarios become more demanding (head shots only, for example), the ability to make the accurate shots quickly suffers greatly. So in this sense I have definitely learned something.

I believe that the IDPA scoring system is better, in that both accuracy and speed have their place.

Dave Sinko
Click to expand...

Hey David!
I have shot a few matches at the founding club in NC and a couple weeks ago shot the championship. I have been shooting IDPA for a few years and feel that Pocket Carry does address some of the weaknesses that IDPA has. That being said, there have been some rule changes since inception and I am sure they will continue to evolve.

I am not sure what your indoor matches have been like but here is a link to video I took at the championships (I am the pov shooter).

‪PCCA Championship at Caswell Ranch 2011‬‏ - YouTube

I have been shooting an XD subcompact 9mm and it seems there is a mix of about 50-50 revolvers to autos.

-Steve
 
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