ICORE matches

I posted this in error in another forum, maybe some of you folks that shoot ICORE can go beyond the rule book and shed some light on some Q's I have?

Years ago I stopped shooting IPSC, IDPA, bullseye, trap, skeet, PPC, WSSA (now known as steel challenge) and all organized competition. I noticed that there are a few ICORE clubs within driving (albeit longish) distance from south Florida. So... I'm thinking of joining ICORE and going up to the matches in Volusia county.

My Q's for those of you who shoot ICORE:

1. What are the most popular guns / classes?
2. The "Limited" class is not defined in the rules, only classic and open division. What is the limited division?
3. What class would a 686+ or 627 times 8, or 10+ shot 32 mag be in?
4. Are courses of fire 6 shot revolver neutral?
5. Lastly are there any ICORE members in southeast Florida who tried to start their own chapter?

If they're answered in the rules, I haven't read the answers there.

I'll take some but leave some for others here. VCG & HC and CFR & PC in central Florida have strong ICORE contingents.

ICORE has very simple rules and scoring compared to other disciplines which makes it very fun. Distances are sometimes substantial. 15 M - 25 M is not that unusual. Number of shots per stage is sometimes around 30 too. 6 stages makes a match and steel is used often. Sometimes entire steel stages.

I gather you know of the rule book but here it is just in case. Stages and matches are definitely built for 6 shot revolvers. The 686+ 7 shot revolver has no fit in a shooting division. Match directors may allow rimfire revolvers in a separate division. I've never seen smaller than 38 centerfire caliber. Rare individuals shoot larger 45 ACP limited. Barrel length is not constrained so 5" guns and even 6" are fairly common. Holsters and other equipment is much more like USPSA than IDPA. That said many revolver shooters shoot ICORE usung guns and equipment legal for other disciplines.

http://www.icore.org/pdf/ICORE Rules 9th Edition (12-31-2013).pdf

Limited is moonclip revolvers, open is revolvers with optics like red dots, classic is like SSR in IDPA using speedloaders. Power factor for 38 special in classic is 120. Ammo requirements for other divisions is less familiar to me but 120 is minimum.

Wyoming Antelope in Tampa / Clearwater is begining ICORE this month.

Glad to help. Come shoot with us at either club I mentioned. You'll be glad you did.

I've run ICORE matches, including the Central States Regional "Wheelgunner's Revenge" in Niles, Michigan every July.
Indeed, some ICORE stages are six-shot-neutral to a fault. A bit of freestyle seasoning might improve a few I've seen over the years.
ICORE uses NRA D-1s which is my only issue with the game. Along with the rather punitive time-down scoring system, similar to IDPA's but tougher, accuracy is much more important that speed, in the big balance of elements all action pistol works with.
Limited Division is the non-compensated, iron-sight division with few restrictions.
Classic Division just came down the road a few years ago to separate the less-techie revos, so it's much the same but restricted to speedloader-fed and only six shots as opposed to the ubiquitous eight-shooters.
Now that USPSA has changed its Revo Division to allow eight-shooters (minor power factor only), the scarcity of the 627 will get much worse and prices will go the wrong direction.
IDPA is very homey for sixguns at most clubs but the ghastly rulebook could drive a saint to drink and strong language.
ICORE has about 2500 members these days, but it's tough sell still.
I established my last USPSA match of the season in Plainfield, IL as a "Revolver Match" and we cut the match fee to five bucks for any sixgun. We had but 12 takers in a field of 44 (well, it was November), not bad, but if it had been June (with a normal field of 90) I doubt we'd have seen even a that dozen.
But if you can find an ICORE match, you will have found the friendliest people you'll meet on a range. They just don't take themselves nearly as seriously as their USPSA bretheren.

gnappi said:

My Q's for those of you who shoot ICORE:

Click to expand...

Shot ICORE today. Ill do my best

1. What are the most popular guns / classes?
Classic, 30% Large variety of K and L frame. guns. My club is also an IDPA club so a few of the SSR shooters user their SSR rig to also shoot ICORE. Otherwise a 6" K or L frame gun rules the roost. I prefer using modern round butt frame mounted firing pin revolvers so that is where I would start. I would feel comfortable shooting my 4" 67 in classic however If would prefer a 6" so that I can be sloppier on the sights without loosing accuracy. You will also see one or two old farts on a budget trying to make a Ruger SP101 work. Stick with Smith.
Limited. 50% This is by far the largest division at most any club. 627's rule the range. typically in the 5" flavor. Lots of slab side and V-comp's running around our range.
Open is also typically 20% of the club makeup and are 8 shot 627's running custom barrels. Ported or comped with Cmores.

2. The "Limited" class is not defined in the rules, only classic and open division. What is the limited division?
Currently Limited is an open revolver without optics or comp. Most anything else goes.
If you can find a custom made 9 or 10 shot .32...then go for it there is no capacity on capacity.

3. What class would a 686+ or 627 times 8, or 10+ shot 32 mag be in?
Limited... assuming it does not have ported barrel or an optic. Then it would be Open.

4. Are courses of fire 6 shot revolver neutral?
To the best they can be. Sometimes a large field course will have 8 shot advantage that gets missed during setup often at the local level. We 8 shot guys like shooting the 6 intended and then swinging to take a long pair in an attempt to cut a reload out.

5. Lastly are there any ICORE members in southeast Florida who tried to start their own chapter?
I'm in Northern California...Cant help you here.

If they're answered in the rules, I haven't read the answers there.
I suggest you get a gun and get to a club. It is some of the best folks you could ever meet. We are all just as competitive as some of the other sports but with a little more maturity.

ICORE Classic: Most Common equipment. 6 shot ONLY 38 Special. Ruger GP100 in 4.2 or 6 Inch. Smith & Wesson K and L Frames.
Speed Loaders: Safariland Comp III, or Jet Loaders

ICORE Limited: Normally a Moon Clip fed 25, 610 or 625, with Open Sights. An open sight 686 Plus with moon clip conversion or a 627 set up for moon clips would be good choices.

ICORE Open: Add an optical sight to a limited gun. You are open for a few more modifications also.

I have 2 Classic Revolvers:
S&W 64 with 4 Inch barrel. Trigger Job, Chamfered Chambers, and a Novak 1911 Green Fiber Optic front sight.

S&W 686-5 with a trigger Job, Chamfered Chambers, and a pinned Green Fiber Optic front sight.

I have a combination of Speed Loaders. I run mainly Jet Loaders with my K Frame. I run mostly Safariland Comp III speed loaders in the 686. I also have a good collection of HKS speed loaders for Load and Make Ready.

I use Big Creek Speed Loader Carriers which I make.

I also have 2 Limited Revolvers. a 610, and a 4 Inch 625 both have all the work discribed above done to them.

I use my everyday carry leather pancake holsters. I am a Senior, and will never be any better than a low B shooter. I see no reason for me to go to a kydex holster.

I also set up our ICORE Matches. With ICORE you have a lot of elbo room on setting up a match.
I normally pick a 12 to 18 round classifier stage from the COF Library. Some times I will have 2 Classifier Stages.
I will normally have a couple stages that are primarily steel reactive targets.
The remaining 3 or so stages will normally be Practical Tactical Stages.

I run a pretty low round count for ICORE keeping our Match to 100 rounds per entry. Most ICORE matches are 150 - 200.
Our shooters normally enter more than once.

As was stated above most ICORE Stages are around 30 rounds. I normally set ours up with some 6, 12, or 18 round stages. I seldom set a stage up with over 18 rounds.
Our ICORE Match follows our Saturday Defensive Pistol Match. We try and use the same stages as much as possible both days.

EDIT: Unlike the West Coast, My Missouri shooters are primarily shooting Classic revolvers, with a few Limited Moon Clip guns thrown in. WE have NO Open revolvers at all locally at this time.

Bob

Something that escaped my attention but perhaps obvious, ICORE competitors are revolver enthusiasts as the discipline acronym states. We often partake of the other sports, even with a revolver. The point is, if you wanted to check back into disciplines from your past or new ones, we will gladly facilitate. If you are ready to hit a match, an IPSC set of equipment for your 627 may be the ready to go way to go. Feel free to PM me if you want to know more about CFR & PC events or VCG & HC ICORE. I also know some of the Port Malabar folks often frequent these two clubs for additional revolver time because their home club does not do ICORE.

Thanks a whole bunch!

It looks like I'm in pretty good shape equipment wise. I have 6,7 and 8 shot Smiths (all box stock) and can shoot in any division.

What I'll do is check out the match schedule and try to get up there.

I read that the "USPSA has changed its Revo Division to allow eight-shooters (minor power factor only)" a while back and had to laugh. My .357 loads will knock poppers down setup in heavy wind that only the MAJOR calibers have a chance at. Why don't they just chrono them?

Oh well no power factor penalty for A hits still eh? Not that it matters, when they took cash prizes away down here I lost interest.

I hope to see some of you soon.

Gary

PS, Has anyone attempted an ICORE chapter in South East Florida?

A couple of small points to add to some of the excellent information here.
It may seem a trivial item, but IPSC does not allow eight-shooters (627s) in Revo Division. Only USPSA does. ISPC is still holding to six, as far as I know.
There's a humorous moment with the recent introduction of the ICORE Classic Division. The concept mostly came out of the West Coast and was casually named "Retro" at first. Once word of it spread to Europe, where sport shooting has a bit more of the revo thing going on (because of gun law issues), our Italian colleagues rose up in indignation.
It seems "retro" translates rather badly into Italian: it appears to refer to what polite company might call a deviant reproductive act.
Not sure what you mean, gnappi, about USPSA and power.
While I'm not too enthused about the eight-shot Revo rule, the power factor differential is thought to help those of us still hanging on to our .45s. I don't know about that.
But any popper that won't go down with 115pf loads like factory .38 Special or weak 9mm 115s is going to be challenged anyway.
In fact, as a match director (serving also as rangemaster usually) I carry around a Detective Special with ICORE-power loads (120pf) for calibration.
In the beginning, the whole purpose of poppers in USPSA was to ensure a power floor and keep the gamers a little more honest.
I wish USPSA had just left the 627s in Production (which is rife with revo-specific equipment rules) but that's the way Board went.
One more thing I'd add about ICORE competition in general. I believe the tilt towards accuracy (three Charlies in a stage is usually fatal) tends to de-emphasize the slowness coming from the larger number of slower reloads than other action pistol. Really, going clean, all Alphas, can cause a stage to be much closer to a bullseye match than run-and-gun. But, that's what it takes to get ahead.
I also agree with the need to lay off the high-round-count stages. I like a 28 or 30 round stage well enough but for speedloader guys who really haven't put a lot of time into practice and drills, it is very frustrating to have an 80-second run.
I learned the same lesson and tend to go more in the 22-24 round range now, depending on the club bay layout.
I also pile on the steel for ICORE. I've used every piece the club owned, because of two things: one, a lot of ICORE shooters have SASS cowboy shooting in their background and they're very much at home looking at a range full of metal. Two, it gets rid of those two-second Charlies (see above).
Still fun, though, and it's always a good day on the range.
I got stirred up enough yesterday from all this to break out my Webley and put a box of .45s downrange. Still nicer ergos than any of my other big revos but... I can't see that little sliver of a front sight anymore!

"Not sure what you mean, gnappi, about USPSA and power."

If I remember correctly a minor caliber scores lower out of the "A" zone? Well if you hit all "A" zones you don't lose anything, or has something changed in scoring?

Hey gnappi, I'm the assistant match director for the ICORE match at Volusia County Gun & Hunt Club (VCGHC). We have our anniversary match this month on the 3rd Saturday. 8 stages, round count is just under 200. Bit of a ride for you depending how far south you are.
We have our match every 3rd Saturday our web site, Volusia County Gun & Hunt Club | New Smyrna Beach | DeLand
Central Florida has their match every 4th Sunday, their web site, Home
With the Wyoming club in Tampa starting up that will make 3 clubs in the state. Between our club and Central FLA we generally get 30 shooters at a match. Some of our shooters have to work Saturdays so they miss 1 match a month.
As far as power factor goes 120,000 is all you need regardless of the division you shoot. Any more questions shoot me a pm. I'll get you some contact info if you want to take on being a match director.

I've been thinking about getting into ICORE competition so this is good info. Been working on a 6" GP-100 for use in the classic series.

What holster rules are there? I assume all holsters must cover the trigger, right?

These are quite enjoyable matches, however the only place that has one a year in north central Pa / southern tier NY has been Cortland, wife & I both shot had a good time, wish other clubs would host one throughout the year as well.

We used 629 & 686 with cheapo nylon holsters, Safariland speedloaders, we both had a great time.

As far as holsters in my local club, I believe the requirement is 'covered trigger & vertical holster' or perhaps 'forward cant of muzzle'. Some use the fast draw skeleton competition things.

We don't have any 'power factor' issues that I know of.

Personally I much prefer the music of the steel targets, and have noticed my score often is degraded by non-A zone metrics.

gnappi said:

"Not sure what you mean, gnappi, about USPSA and power."

If I remember correctly a minor caliber scores lower out of the "A" zone? Well if you hit all "A" zones you don't lose anything, or has something changed in scoring?

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Both Minor and Major Power factor earn 5 points for each "Alpha". Major earns one more point for everything else in USPSA.


To the person asking about holsters, this is from the ICORE rulebook:

3. ICORE requires a holster that will securely hold your firearm. The holster must cover the trigger guard area.
Holsters must be attached to your gun belt. The heel of the butt of the gun is not allowed below the bottom of the
belt. (An exception shall be duty rigs and single action rigs.) Tie downs are allowed on single action rigs only.
The Match Director may require a "holster test". With the gun/belt/holster assembly attached to the tester's waist,
the revolver must be retained in the holster when the tester hops. During this hop, both of the tester's feet must
clear the ground, the tester's heels must clear the ground by at least 3 inches and the tester may not hold or
touch the revolver. All retention devices on the holster used to pass the holster test must be similarly engaged at
the start of every course of fire.

Bugs Bunny

Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club in New Tripoli, PA has a few matches a year. As well they have the Regionals this year in October, which I plan to attend. They put on great match, great bunch of people. Don't know how far you are from Albany, NY, but they have 4 ICORE matches scheduled this year. Also worth the drive, IMO.

Trying to come up with a reason compelling enough to plop down a grand plus for a 986 9mm. It's a no go in IDPA so I'm considering taking in an Icore match here in Tampa.

Am I reading the rules correctly that the 986 would be OK in Limited as long as I was making 120 PF?

Correct any caliber loaded with a moon clip is a limited gun. Classic is loaded with speed loaders and an open gun will have optics on it and be fed using speed loaders or moon clips

Rod Brown said:

Bugs Bunny

Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club in New Tripoli, PA has a few matches a year. As well they have the Regionals this year in October, which I plan to attend.

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The East Coast Regional Championship is October 12th...

Thanks Don P I'll give it a try, and see about finding a 986.