received this email...some may not have received it. Please read.

__________________
Cliff Rock

thx for the info..

did u get that notice emailed to you?

Basically, on any AR, the hammer has to be cocked for the safety to engage. If the hammer is not cocked and you force it into safety you can damage the rifle.

So essentially the AR is always cocked and ready to fire (even when on safe, the hammer is cocked) and it should always be treated as such..

I not only make sure that there are no rounds present when I remove the magazine but I also insert a chamber flag into the chamber so I know, visually that there can't be a round in the chamber. Even with that being said, a gun is ALWAYS LOADED until it can be proven thoroughly otherwise!

I just received the same e-mail about 1/2 hour ago.



Len

Ya, this email came directly to me.

I am with you Brett. None of it this was new knowledge, but I figure since this is a big internet source for 15-22 owners, I would post it here.

__________________
Cliff Rock

Thanks for the info!

Ed

__________________
DAV / NRA Endowment Member

Hotnanans,

I agree it's something that should be posted, and even re posted in the future. We get complacent over time, and if a repeated message saves a life that may have been taken accidentally, then we've done a good thing!

Good info- Sticky

Ok... so for those of us who weren't aware of this.. what should we do? I know that there have been times when I moved the safety and it was more difficult than other times.

How do I check my rifle for any damage caused by this?
What type of damage may occur? Broken safey? =(

The M&P15-22 selector is plastic and the trigger is steel.

If you force the selector to SAFE and the hammer isn't cocked you will bugger the selector cam for starters. If you then cock the rifle by retracting the operating handle you will bugger the sear by forcing if over the trigger bar.

The messed up selector will not properly safe the rifle and it will eventually become possible for the rifle to fire when on SAFE. Of course your trigger finger is your ultimate safety and it ain't gonna fire unless you press the trigger, messed up safety or not.

The M16 has steel trigger and selector parts and operator's manual has no "lawyerese" cautions or warnings about this. Merely states that "Selector cannot be placed on safe unless the rifle is cocked." Doesn't mean some dummy with an AR15 won't force it with a vice grip.

-- Chuck

Thanks for the info Chuck. So if everything seems fine right now, would it be safe to assume no damage has been done yet? Or is it one of those deteriorating failures where I'll see malfunction over time?

I'm pretty sure there were a few times where I've engaged the safety and then cocked the rifle.

Good to know and won't be doing that again..!

i would pull the safety selector out and examine it.. Go to my sticky at the top of the page and watch my videos for more details on how to do that.

Got the email from SW yesterday - but thanks for posting.

__________________
... ed ...

I am new to the AR platform and was unaware of the order in which the weapon should be cocked and or put on safe. Being unable to put the weapon on safe without first cocking the hammer as the owners manual states, I e-mailed S+W to be sure rather than force the safety selector to safe before cocking the hammer. The e-mail response from S+W stated that the safety just needed to be "broken in". I have been doing this until I recieved the e-mail on 3-18-10. Below is my e-mail to S+W and the reply I recieved.

From: Valenze, David [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:21 PM
To: 'Rxx'
Subject: RE: Safety



Hello,



The safety is rather stiff when new. It should just need to get broken in slightly.



Regards,



Dave





-----Original Message-----
From: RXX [mailto:rxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:07 PM
To: Smith & Wesson Support
Cc: rxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Safety

In the M+P 15-22 manual it is stated several times to put the fire selector switch on safe and then pull the charging handle, which cocks the hammer.



I can not place the fire selector switch on safe until after the hammer is cocked by pulling the charging handle.



Is this normal?

I have E-mailed a copy of this corrispondence with the S+W safety warning to S+W and am awaiting a response. I am unsure of what to do. I pulled the safety selector out to look at it and it is "buggered". The safety selector does still seem to work correctly. Should I just buy a replacement dropin trigger? Can I put an aftermarket safety selector in the M+P15-22? Don't Know about the seer, where it is or how to pull it out to inspect it.

thanks for any advice you can give.

Can you take a picture of it for us to see? Thanks!

Thanks for this post, I pick up my S&W M&P15 .22lr tomorrow evening!

Recieved a responce from the e-mail contact, (David), above.
As I am reluctant to ship my firearm, I requested to purchase a new safety selector, as it is quite simple to install. David arranged shipment of a new, and free, safety selector via USPS. Recieved it yesterday and am very happy to have been able to interact with a very straightforward and hassle free customer service.


S+W, good old American stuff, gotta love it!

As far as I know, you cannot put any AR-15 on safe unless the hammer is cocked. It will go half way and hard stop.

The point of this thread is that you CAN put an M+P 15-22 on safe before cocking the hammer, as instructed to do in the owners manual in several places. Doing so damages the composite safety selector and trigger sear.

Since i have an early serial number (DTH****), i am going to send it to S+W with the hope that they will also upgrade the extractor and ejector along with whatever else may be brought up to spec.

The instructions that came with the mailing label said to also send all magazines with the firearm, so i will send all six with the weapon.

Despite all of this i am a satisfied S+W customer and have every confidence in there customer support.

In my experience with the weapons I own of this sort, the safety will not engage if the weapon hasnt been charged, thus cocking the hammer back. As tension on the trigger assembly can be harmful if you plan on storing your gun for awhile. Dry firing isnt recommended either. Usually what I do is after cleaning, before reassembly I hold my finger on the hammer and pull the trigger easing the hammer into place. Then couple the lower&upper receiver. I do understand some peoples environments are more sensitive than others, kids, new shooters,& other scenarios can always be an issue, and I know some of these weapons are intended for home defense.

It was e mailed to me for mine.Although I haven't had that problem with it.

This info will come in handy when I pick mine up in 4 days. Thanks for the info.
Regards

Finally sent my 15-22 and got it back yesterday after a 15 day round trip. My situation is described in detail above. In short S+W gave me a New Safety Selector Switch, New Ejector Rod, New Extractor Retaining Pin With Antirotation Lug, New Blue Springs, New Unloaded Chamber Flag, And Six New Mags. All that from the initial inspection. Will have to call S+W for a more complete list of repaires/upgrades. First impressions are the charging handle pulls like soft butter instead of a two stage rusty jack! WOW! I have allways been a fan, but now I am a hardcore diehard believer of S+W and there 1st class customer suport.

Happy Camper Here

Thanks Gents. I just bought a new mp 15 OR flat top and haven't taken it out yet, and encountered the refusal to go on safe. Suspecting something like this, I did not force it. But I did not find anything about it in the manual. I have many firearms and none that do this... so finding it here before doing damage was a big help! shovel99

Thanks for the info everyone.
Had to renew my permit to purchase so I be getting my 15-22 soon.
Had it in my hands at Cabela's.

Felt good, didn't it?