My trigger is acting up...

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

So yesterday at the range I my rifle was firing and ejecting just fine, but after I fired one round I could not fire a second shot until I heard a click after pulling trigger 3-5 times. The process kept repeating itself. Today, I did a trigger test where you hold down on the trigger and with your thumb on the hammer and then push the hammer back down and then you release your finger from the trigger. When I released the trigger, the hammer just stayed in place and didn't click back up unless i pull the trigger a few times. Its as if the disconnector refuses to release the hammer.

[diducmeb4]

Did you check the spring?

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by diducmeb4

Did you check the spring?

Which spring?

[yugowego]

I would take the FCG out and give it a good cleaning and inspection... After that you should be good to go (if it was just gummed up) or know what might be causing the problem... Get some good pics of the FCG before you take it out and with it out of the rifle... Then we can go from there on trouble shooting your problem.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by yugowego

I would take the FCG out and give it a good cleaning and inspection... After that you should be good to go (if it was just gummed up) or know what might be causing the problem... Get some good pics of the FCG before you take it out and with it out of the rifle... Then we can go from there on trouble shooting your problem.

I'm not really sure how to assess this. So maybe you could shed some light on it.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Another pic...I think its a better angle of the trigger group

[yugowego]

Looks to me like your hammer spring took a **** and is letting your hammer pin walk out... Push your hammer pin back in... You have two choices here, send it back to S&W to fix it or buy a new milspec FCG to replace it.

[yugowego]

Also pull the FCG out to make sure the broken spring is not down in there ready to cause more havoc

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by yugowego

Looks to me like your hammer spring took a **** and is letting your hammer pin walk out... Push your hammer pin back in... You have two choices here, send it back to S&W to fix it or buy a new milspec FCG to replace it.

Oh wow. Well, I appreciate you taking look. I will definitely be shipping this to S&W now. Doesn't the hammer look crooked? Something tells me it shouldn't be that way.

[SimpleWeaponSolutions]

Watch this video, it should help with taking the trigger out and finding out what is wrong.

CMMG Lower Parts Kit - YouTube

and this picture should help too.

[mp15.22]

Originally Posted by R4MBLIN WRECK

Oh wow. Well, I appreciate you taking look. I will definitely be shipping this to S&W now.

Prolly be faster if you just buy a KNS pin kit for like $20bucks at a lgs rather then sending it back to SW.

[TYSTYX]

There's no need to buy a new FCG just because the springs are broken or the pins are walking. Springs are easy to replace and pins can be pushed back in. I wouldn't send it back to S&W. Look at the hammer and trigger pins on both sides on the outside of the lower receiver. Are they recessed evenly on both sides?

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by TYSTYX

There's no need to buy a new FCG just because the springs are broken or the pins are walking. Springs are easy to replace and pins can be pushed back in. I wouldn't send it back to S&W. Look at the hammer and trigger pins on both sides on the outside of the lower receiver. Are they recessed evenly on both sides?

The trigger pins seem to be even, but the hammer pins are no where near even.

[yugowego]

Originally Posted by TYSTYX

There's no need to buy a new FCG just because the springs are broken or the pins are walking. Springs are easy to replace and pins can be pushed back in.

Ever replaced a J spring?.. Hammer and trigger spring are fine, its the internal hammer spring thats more than likely broke... I personally wouldnt send it back either... As posted above KNS pins, a new hammer or complete FCG will fix it... It is easy and a ton of youtube videos to walk you through it.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by yugowego

Ever replaced a J spring?.. Hammer and trigger spring are fine, its the internal hammer spring thats more than likely broke... I personally wouldnt send it back either... As posted above KNS pins, a new hammer or complete FCG will fix it... It is easy and a ton of youtube videos to walk you through it.

No, I have never replaced any springs on any kind of rifle before. That's why I am a tad hesitant, but if it's a simple fix then I'm willing to do it.

[yugowego]

Originally Posted by R4MBLIN WRECK

No, I have never replaced any springs on any kind of rifle before. That's why I am a tad hesitant, but if it's a simple fix then I'm willing to do it.

Watch a few youtube videos on it... It not hard at all... PM me your address and ill send you a FCG.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Hold on a second guys...Alright checking out the hammer pins, I just put a little bit of torsion on the hammer and pushed the protruding pin back in a little bit and now the hammer is working like it should again, but the hammer pin still isn't completely even.

[yugowego]

It will work fine the the pin walks out again... The pin has a grove in the center of it and the hammer has a "J" spring internally the rides in the grove of the pin to keep it from walking out

[mp15.22]

Originally Posted by R4MBLIN WRECK

No, I have never replaced any springs on any kind of rifle before. That's why I am a tad hesitant, but if it's a simple fix then I'm willing to do it.

Its really easy bro. I put in the JP springs and KNS pin kit by watching this video. I big lengthy, but real easy to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R4eVw1SXdA

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by yugowego

It will work fine the the pin walks out again... The pin has a grove in the center of it and the hammer has a "J" spring internally the rides in the grove of the pin to keep it from walking out

So I will still need to replace the "J" spring to prevent this from happening, again?

[mp15.22]

Originally Posted by R4MBLIN WRECK

So I will still need to replace the "J" spring to prevent this from happening, again?

Your hammer pin will keep on walking you. I read on this forum that the recent MP15-22 are having this problem. Get the KNS pin kit and call it a day.

Mine kept on walking like this until i put in the KNS.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by mp15.22

Your hammer pin will keep on walking you. I read on this forum that the recent MP15-22 are having this problem. Get the KNS pin kit and call it a day.

Mine kept on walking like this until i put in the KNS.

Ah thanks for the pic that's how mine was looking before I pushed it back in for a second. I did get this 15-22 back in December 2012 so I guess mine is no exception. This helps so much. Thank you all for tips this is great.

[Gopher Slayer]

Check these out.

The problem is so common they should make it a sticky.


This just fell out of my lower

Need help - found loose pin while cleaning

Is something not right with my gun?

[yugowego]

Originally Posted by R4MBLIN WRECK

So I will still need to replace the "J" spring to prevent this from happening, again?

Yes... Do as posted above or take me up on the new hammer offer...

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by yugowego

Yes... Do as posted above or take me up on the new hammer offer...

I think I will go ahead to what has been posted, but I appreciate all the help and advice.

[RedNeck Jim]

OK, my opinion. You don't need the KNS pins. They are too expensive and are non rotating, which serves absolutely no purpose in this situation. Who cares if the pins rotate? JP makes pins & they cost less as you are not paying for the non rotating components.

Also, if while doing this you want a great trigger that any idiot (me) can drop in while you are putting these pins in, then get you a CMC trigger module. Pull out your old pins, take out all of the old trigger components, put in the CMC group, install JP pins... and you are done. You now have a match grade trigger that will stay locked in place.
CMC Triggers Tactical Drop-In Trigger Group Curved AR-15 Small Pin

[Gopher Slayer]

Originally Posted by RedNeck Jim

OK, my opinion. You don't need the KNS pins. They are too expensive and are non rotating, which serves absolutely no purpose in this situation. Who cares if the pins rotate? JP makes pins & they cost less as you are not paying for the non rotating components.

If the J-spring is broken, there's nothing keeping the hammer pin from moving side-to-side. The KNS pins would keep it in place, but would only be a band-aid.

[yugowego]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

If the J-spring is broken, there's nothing keeping the hammer pin from moving side-to-side. The KNS pins would keep it in place, but would only be a band-aid.

Plus rotating pins will eventually wear and oblong the receiver pin holes.... Takes a while but it can happen.

[Majorlk]

I still contend that the majority of the time, the problem is caused by repeated disassembly of the FCG every time the rifle is cleaned. In reality, the FCG in the 15-22 only needs to be disassembled if something breaks.

[yugowego]

Originally Posted by Majorlk

I still contend that the majority of the time, the problem is caused by repeated disassembly of the FCG every time the rifle is cleaned. In reality, the FCG in the 15-22 only needs to be disassembled if something breaks.

Agreed... I have a little 1 gallon air compressor mounted under my work bench that i use to blow out my lowers with... No need to remove anything, just blow it out and your gtg.

[TYSTYX]

My hammer pin keeps walking out on the right side. I've never removed the FCG and the problem started after about 500 rounds through the gun. My J spring is fine. I don't have the tools to clean up or recut the groove on the pin, so I finally just said screw it and bought the KNS pin set direct from KNS Industries. They should be here next week. I ordered the Gen 2 Mod 2 set.

[RedNeck Jim]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

If the J-spring is broken, there's nothing keeping the hammer pin from moving side-to-side. The KNS pins would keep it in place, but would only be a band-aid.

The JP pins hold everything in place, just like the KNS. Someone will have to document where any AR type gun has had issues with a pin rotating. Think about how many pins are in an AR.

I think some of you guys just like having more stuff hanging off your rifle.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by Majorlk

I still contend that the majority of the time, the problem is caused by repeated disassembly of the FCG every time the rifle is cleaned. In reality, the FCG in the 15-22 only needs to be disassembled if something breaks.

Well I can assure you that I never took apart the FCG. The pin just started walking on its own.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by TYSTYX

My hammer pin keeps walking out on the right side. I've never removed the FCG and the problem started after about 500 rounds through the gun. My J spring is fine. I don't have the tools to clean up or recut the groove on the pin, so I finally just said screw it and bought the KNS pin set direct from KNS Industries. They should be here next week. I ordered the Gen 2 Mod 2 set.

How can you tell if your j spring is fine? So far it had been assumed that mine, but that's all speculation. I mean I fixed the problem by pushing the pin back in, but I'm still unsure if I have to replace the j spring or not.

[TYSTYX]

The J pin is actually inserted into the hammer from the bottom. Sometimes they break where the bend is. Once that happens it usually falls out and the hammer pin has no way to lock in place.

[TYSTYX]

Originally Posted by RedNeck Jim

The JP pins hold everything in place, just like the KNS. Someone will have to document where any AR type gun has had issues with a pin rotating. Think about how many pins are in an AR.

I think some of you guys just like having more stuff hanging off your rifle.

Well, I figure that if owners can put on a 600+ dollar optic on their 15-22, or spend more than 20 cents per round for 22 ammo, then 33 bucks for the KNS set up isn't really that bad of a deal.

[RedNeck Jim]

Originally Posted by TYSTYX

Well, I figure that if owners can put on a 600+ dollar optic on their 15-22, or spend more than 20 cents per round for 22 ammo, then 33 bucks for the KNS set up isn't really that bad of a deal.

Hey I agree but IMO both parts do exactly the same thing, so why throw your money away?

That is the exact same logic I used in buying the CMC drop in trigger. IMO, this gun (or at least my gun) needed a better trigger. I don't know a hammer from a sear or a j spring from a whatever that little thingie is. I'm just not mechanically inclined. I know folks, like the Major, can buy trigger components cheaper than my drop in, and have a nice trigger. Good for them & I wish I felt comfortable doing that myself. Reality is... I can't do that. I would put the wrong spring in the wrong place or something else just as stupid. However anyone can drop in a CMC & never have to worry about what goes where... plus you now have a match grade trigger.

To me, I want a fine gun, a smooth light trigger & a nice optic for my old eyes. Everything else is just gravy.

[Gopher Slayer]

Originally Posted by RedNeck Jim

The JP pins hold everything in place, just like the KNS.

I didn't think you understood why someone would suggest something other than factory pins.

I wasn't arguing brand names or better designs. Guess I misread your post.


Personally, I would call S&W and tell them they should stop using these cheap FCG components if they want the 15-22 to keep a decent reputation. Then I would ask them to ship me a new hammer free of charge.

[RedNeck Jim]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

I didn't think you understood why someone would suggest something other than factory pins.

I wasn't arguing brand names or better designs. Guess I misread your post.

No problem. I use anti-walk pins on both my AR & 15-22. I personally don't see the need for non rotating & personally don't like the look of that bar connecting the 2 pins on the KNS. Besides that, they both do their job well.

FCG is just too important. I don't want my pins walking & I shoot much better with a match grade trigger. That combo is the first purchase I would make for any AR type weapon.

[Gopher Slayer]

Do the JP pins bottom out(touch the rec.) due to the 15-22's wider upper receiver?

[RedNeck Jim]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

Do the JP pins bottom out(touch the rec.) due to the 15-22's wider upper receiver?

They are oversized & fit mine perfectly.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by TYSTYX

The J pin is actually inserted into the hammer from the bottom. Sometimes they break where the bend is. Once that happens it usually falls out and the hammer pin has no way to lock in place.

Oh okay, then I guess mine isn't broken since nothing has fallen out of the lower receiver. It must be getting week though.

[Gopher Slayer]

Originally Posted by R4MBLIN WRECK

Oh okay, then I guess mine isn't broken since nothing has fallen out of the lower receiver. It must be getting week though.

With the hammer forward, try pushing the pin out. If it moves with little to no pressure the J-spring is toast.

Originally Posted by RedNeck Jim

They are oversized & fit mine perfectly.

I'm talking length, not diameter.
Can you tighten the screw heads all the way down without them bottoming out on the sides of the receiver?

[RedNeck Jim]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

Can you tighten the screw heads all the way down without them bottoming out on the sides of the receiver?

Yep. I have looked for the specs but see nothing on their length. You know the specs for either?

[Gopher Slayer]

Originally Posted by RedNeck Jim

Yep. I have looked for the specs but see nothing on their length. You know the specs for either?

I don't.
It's good to know they fit properly on both receiver sizes though. They must have plenty of slack side to side on an AR15 receiver.

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

With the hammer forward, try pushing the pin out. If it moves with little to no pressure the J-spring is toast.

Well I did what you said and the pin moved out of place, but I wouldn't say that it moved with little to no pressure.

[photoracer]

Originally Posted by RedNeck Jim

The JP pins hold everything in place, just like the KNS. Someone will have to document where any AR type gun has had issues with a pin rotating. Think about how many pins are in an AR.

I think some of you guys just like having more stuff hanging off your rifle.

Yes they do have issues. That is why they make oversize pins at .1555 in addition to normal .154. It is the rotating of the high grade steel pins in a polymer or alloy holes that creates the wear. Not going to happen right away of course but if they keep popping out of the side holes that will increase wear in polymer for sure. I have them in both my 15-22s and my ARs. Some drop in trigger makers actually include them in the installation kit. I also have a set of the JPs with the clips. They work good in keeping the pins in place but do nothing for the wear issues.

[DoItRtOrNtAll]

Hey guys, seems to me I'm having a similar problem. Seeing as this is my first rifle, I'm new to guns. I was out at the range yesterday and this is whats happening to me, I fire one round and the trigger doesn't reset, if I push the trigger forward with my finger, I hear a click, and the rifle can be fired again. Being that I am a service tech, I am mechanically savvy. I removed my lower and have disassembled my FCG and I don't see anything that is obviously broken, the pins holding the FCG in did not walk, and were even when I removed them, so am I looking at a broken "J spring" inside the hammer? I don't know how I would check it, or remove it. It looks intact but could be broken somewhere inside the hammer not visible unless taken out.

[yugowego]

Originally Posted by DoItRtOrNtAll

Hey guys, seems to me I'm having a similar problem. Seeing as this is my first rifle, I'm new to guns. I was out at the range yesterday and this is whats happening to me, I fire one round and the trigger doesn't reset, if I push the trigger forward with my finger, I hear a click, and the rifle can be fired again. Being that I am a service tech, I am mechanically savvy. I removed my lower and have disassembled my FCG and I don't see anything that is obviously broken, the pins holding the FCG in did not walk, and were even when I removed them, so am I looking at a broken "J spring" inside the hammer? I don't know how I would check it, or remove it. It looks intact but could be broken somewhere inside the hammer not visible unless taken out.

With the hammer out of the lower, put the hammer pin in the hammer and see if it "locks" into the J spring. It will be hard to push or pull the pin out of the hammer if it is locking with the J spring properly.

[Gopher Slayer]

Originally Posted by DoItRtOrNtAll

Hey guys, seems to me I'm having a similar problem. Seeing as this is my first rifle, I'm new to guns. I was out at the range yesterday and this is whats happening to me, I fire one round and the trigger doesn't reset, if I push the trigger forward with my finger, I hear a click, and the rifle can be fired again. Being that I am a service tech, I am mechanically savvy. I removed my lower and have disassembled my FCG and I don't see anything that is obviously broken, the pins holding the FCG in did not walk, and were even when I removed them, so am I looking at a broken "J spring" inside the hammer? I don't know how I would check it, or remove it. It looks intact but could be broken somewhere inside the hammer not visible unless taken out.

Look inside the hole of the hammer. If you can see a little piece of metal sticking out then it's not broken. Or just try pushing the pin through the hammer while not in place. If it doesn't catch, then the spring is weak or broken.

Not my pic, but it shows what I'm talking about.