NcStar Courage 4x32 Scope Review

Fair warning - Pic and word heavy post...

Description of the scope and mount:
I recently purchased an NcStar Courage 4x32, model number SCOUBP432G in Black. Along with my new scope I got a NcStar Quick Release scope mount, item#MARCQ.


Where I bought it from and why...
It's the exact same setup the guy on rrages.com is selling for $79.00, shipping included. I did not buy from that website, but I did like the look of the setup, and wanted a cheap 4x32 scope I could mess around with and not feel guilty if I beat it up a little bit.

I found my set up on Amazon. The scope was $21.68 and the QR mount cost me $22.45. For a grand total of $44.13, shipping included, I beat rrages price by $34.87. Not trying to bash that website, but just be careful before you jump on anything offered there.


WHAT ABOUT THE REVIEW, DUDE?
OK. Back to why I'm posting this. I haven't shot the gun with the new setup yet. I will post a review and range report in the near future.

What I can say is this - I am definitely impressed with the fit and finish of my $22 scope. I can't begin to describe how elated I was to see that the cross-hairs lined up nicely, the glass was very clear. Everything is crisp and in focus right out of the box. Heck, I didn't even have to mess around with the focus knob on the back of the scope.

Everything fit together nice and tight. Mounting the QR scope mount on the 15-22 was more than easy. I tightened down the adjustment screw as far as it would go, put the mount on the rail, flipped the lever, and it's rock solid.

There are only a couple of points I wanted to make, that are not necessarily negative. First, the Amazon description (which was vague in the first place) said that the reticle would be green. Some of these courage series are said to have an illuminated reticle, so I was hopeful. Mine is not. It's a plain black Sniper P4 style reticle. No biggie. Also, there is a cheesy little lens cover that is included. Doubt I'll use this when I'm plinking, but I'm sure it will work well to protect the lenses during transport.

One other point that I consider to be a little bit of a con is the eye relief. NcStar claims it should be 3 inches. While it is probably close to that, it sure feels awkward having your face that close to the charging handle. It's not really bad, but could be better eye relief. (I know I could remove the back sight and get away from the charging handle, but I want it on there.)

Please feel free to ask me any questions you have about this setup. Again, WOW! This is a really nice setup for the price. Definitely worth taking a look at for your 15-22. It does not feel cheap in your hands, and it feels rock solid mounted on the gun. Like I said before, I'll post another review after I get a chance to zero it in and see how she holds up.

Pictures
Here are some pics that I hope will give you a better idea of which model / mount I'm talking about, and a good visual for how things line up and look on the gun.

I bought two of those mounts and put them on both a big AR and my 15-22, and both of them were crap.

Configurations:
AR-15 5.56 NATO, with a Mueller Eraticator scope (1-inch scope tube)
AR-15-22 with Nikon Rimfire Classic (1-inch scope tube)

On the big AR, I had my scope adjusted all the way to the stops and POI was STILL 4 inches right of POA at 50 yards.

On my 15-22, and with the scope dialed to the stops, the POI as about 3 inches left of the POA.

I tried turning the inserts, swapping them end-for-end, and even swapping them between mounts. There were small changes in POI (with the scopes still run to the stops), but nothing anywhere close to what I would call acceptable.

Of course, those are just my experiences and you might have better luck. Based on what I've experienced though, I wouldn't own another piece of NC-Star crap if it was given to me. I would also never own another mount that had inserts for smaller scope tubes.

Now, having said that, I am curious to see if it's the inserts that are causing the problems, so I'm keeping the mounts in case I get a scope with a 30mm tube.

For the curious, I switched over to the Burris P.E.P.R. mount. It's 3-times the price of the NC-Star mount, and isn't a QD mount, but hey, my scopes now need almost no windage adjustment to make them shoot where I'm aiming.

EDIT: I also tried installing the mounts backwards. POI changed as you might guess - it was the opposite of what I had when they were pointed the other way. I also had no problems with the mount coming loose on the rail. Finally, when I took the mounts off to replace them with something better, I noticed that each scope had play between the adapter spacers and the ring itself. Even with the cap screws run all the way down and tight, the adapter rings still rotated freely in the mount.

fingers crossed...

Thanks for your input! Now I am really anxious to get to the range today and see how both perform. If they suck I'm going to regret not picking up that nikon prostaff I saw on a black Friday deal at cabelas.

I just want to counter this a little when dealing with Amazon vs. dealing with Rrages.

With Amazon you do not necessarily know what you are getting, you found that out.. There are glaring inaccuracies in how things are listed on Amazon. With Rrages he may be a little more (remember shipping is included in his prices) and what you see is what you get. I've dealt with George (Rrages) and I find him to be a very reliable vendor.

+1 rrages good guy to deal with. He really has a great selection of all the tacticool accessories, good descriptions and pics.

amazon's titles may not always be accurate, but there is almost always a model number listed under product details. take a couple minutes to google search a product or item # if you have difficulty. I would however never buy from marketplace sellers.. this is anything that doesn't say "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com" marketplace sellers are the equivalent of buying from anybody else on the internet and there are no guarantees. amazon itself however is a top notch company.

Brett248Vista said:

I just want to counter this a little when dealing with Amazon vs. dealing with Rrages.

With Amazon you do not necessarily know what you are getting, you found that out.. There are glaring inaccuracies in how things are listed on Amazon. With Rrages he may be a little more (remember shipping is included in his prices) and what you see is what you get. I've dealt with George (Rrages) and I find him to be a very reliable vendor.

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I have to agree with you that Amazon's descriptions can be a joke sometimes, but the company itself it one you can trust.

I'm sure rrages.com is awesome too - I just thought I'd pick it up cheaper elsewhere. Sounds like rrages is a good guy to do business with though. My intent wasn't to bash his business, but I just thought the profit margin built into that particular setup was a little substantial!

ChattanoogaPhil said:

+1 rrages good guy to deal with. He really has a great selection of all the tacticool accessories, good descriptions and pics.

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He really does have some cool stuff that I've had my eye on, and a lot that seems reasonable for the price. I'll probably end up buying something from him sooner or later.

Saab,

We never said you was bashing, we were just chiming in with our thoughts on the other guy.

The problem with Amazon as I see it, and this is an issue with eBay too, is that they "save" selling templates and you are at the mercy of the original listing's accuracy if you just pick the default template when you sell.

My buddy Dave recently purchased a sling pack off Amazon and the model he got, was not the model in the listing. When he got it he checked back with Amazon and others had complained about the same issue. Of course the seller said he would remedy the issue, just pay shipping back.... Now how is that fair? So Caveat Emptor applies.. Gotta do your homework.

Brett248Vista said:

Saab,

We never said you was bashing, we were just chiming in with our thoughts on the other guy.

The problem with Amazon as I see it, and this is an issue with eBay too, is that they "save" selling templates and you are at the mercy of the original listing's accuracy if you just pick the default template when you sell.

My buddy Dave recently purchased a sling pack off Amazon and the model he got, was not the model in the listing. When he got it he checked back with Amazon and others had complained about the same issue. Of course the seller said he would remedy the issue, just pay shipping back.... Now how is that fair? So Caveat Emptor applies.. Gotta do your homework.

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I totally hear you on the template thing - it's almost to the point of humorous sometimes. (Except when you end up shipping stuff back like your buddy had to.)

I've seen a lot of your posts Brett, and wanted to thank you for all of the work done on this forum.. I'm about to finish my review of my scope and first time shooting my gun in another post in this thread, so you'll have to keep tabs and let me know your advice... I'd appreciate it!

Range Report..

OK, so I've put together a range report and had a couple of issues that I need help on!

First the scope and mount, since that's what this thread is about. For the most part, I really like the scope. Like I thought it would be, the glass was really clear. The cross hairs are nice and sharp, but maybe a little too thick in my opinion.

There are a couple of major issues I saw with the scope and mount that I don't know if I can overlook. I would get my groups nice and tight at about 60' (the indoor range I go to isn't very big.) Then, after loading another magazine, I'd go back to shooting and notice that my groups were all over the place. Same place on the bench, same distance, same everything. Then I noticed that the quick release mount has a little adjustment screw on the side that was working its way loose after shooting just 25 rounds! I know a little loctite would fix this, but I'm not sure that's the only issue. The mount as a whole is a little "loose" it shifts back and forth on the rail ever so slightly, and I'm not sure what the difference is now, because before the range session it was rock solid.

After getting the set screw back in place, I'd have to re-zero my scope by a couple of clicks down and to the right every time. So really, I can't figure out if I'm losing zero due to my scope, or the mount, or maybe both?

Not that there is a huge difference here, and I had a better example, but threw away the wrong target. See in the first picture the group is fairly tight. Then after loading another mag, I get this group in the second pic that's all over the place...





Any other thoughts on the scope and mount? Should I send it back and try something more tried and true, or try and work out the kinks?


Now a gun issue:
Also, I've ran into the dreaded issue of the bolt not holding open after the last round in the magazine. This is the FIRST TIME I've ever shot the gun. I probably put 350 rounds through it today, and started experiencing this about 75% of the time after 200 rounds or so. I know nothing of the bolt assembly, and would appreciate ANY advice I can get on this before I call S&W. Is it possible that it could be dirty enough after 200 rounds to cause an issue?

saabsquad said:

OK, so I've put together a range report and had a couple of issues that I need help on!

First the scope and mount, since that's what this thread is about. For the most part, I really like the scope. Like I thought it would be, the glass was really clear. The cross hairs are nice and sharp, but maybe a little too thick in my opinion.

There are a couple of major issues I saw with the scope and mount that I don't know if I can overlook. I would get my groups nice and tight at about 60' (the indoor range I go to isn't very big.) Then, after loading another magazine, I'd go back to shooting and notice that my groups were all over the place. Same place on the bench, same distance, same everything. Then I noticed that the quick release mount has a little adjustment screw on the side that was working its way loose after shooting just 25 rounds! I know a little loctite would fix this, but I'm not sure that's the only issue. The mount as a whole is a little "loose" it shifts back and forth on the rail ever so slightly, and I'm not sure what the difference is now, because before the range session it was rock solid.

After getting the set screw back in place, I'd have to re-zero my scope by a couple of clicks down and to the right every time. So really, I can't figure out if I'm losing zero due to my scope, or the mount, or maybe both?

Not that there is a huge difference here, and I had a better example, but threw away the wrong target. See in the first picture the group is fairly tight. Then after loading another mag, I get this group in the second pic that's all over the place...

Any other thoughts on the scope and mount? Should I send it back and try something more tried and true, or try and work out the kinks?


Now a gun issue:
Also, I've ran into the dreaded issue of the bolt not holding open after the last round in the magazine. This is the FIRST TIME I've ever shot the gun. I probably put 350 rounds through it today, and started experiencing this about 75% of the time after 200 rounds or so. I know nothing of the bolt assembly, and would appreciate ANY advice I can get on this before I call S&W. Is it possible that it could be dirty enough after 200 rounds to cause an issue?

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ive never used the scope, so i cant chime in on that, but that mount is horrible, ive seen it first hand and it works itself loose constantly. put a little loctite on that hold down screw and if it doesnt help cut your losses, you got a good deal. and one more thing, 3" of eye relief on a cheapo scope is a very very good thing, more than you would get with most. You cant really buy a 20-40 dollar scope and expect a leupold.

Jswiney9 said:

ive never used the scope, so i cant chime in on that, but that mount is horrible, ive seen it first hand and it works itself loose constantly. put a little loctite on that hold down screw and if it doesnt help cut your losses, you got a good deal. and one more thing, 3" of eye relief on a cheapo scope is a very very good thing, more than you would get with most. You cant really buy a 20-40 dollar scope and expect a leupold.

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Thanks for the feedback! I'm hoping the loctite will do the trick, but it seems like a couple of folks on here have had issues with that mount.

As for the 3" of eye relief, I'm pretty sure I was closer to 1.5 to 2ish today at the range. And I totally agree - what am I complaining about with a $22 scope!

the mount is the problem its been a known issue with ncstar and all this time they still haven't fixed it. i remember reading about it many times before but its too late for me so do some google searching you'll find it. usually sending it back just results in them charging you $10 and then they don't fix anything. although if it is a brand new recent purchase they might not charge. either way it might still be a problem when you get it back. as for the bolt hold open i haven't figured it out yet myself either.. brand new gun, brand new mags.. relatively clean. not sure.

All I can say is my Mark III uses the same type of QD mount and mine works fine..

Here's a video I made that might explain it.

YouTube - How to mount your NcStar Mark III Scope (QD Mount)

The issue with that throw lever is that you need to make sure it's adjusted so that it locks down tight, but not too tight. And that's hard to describe because it's a "feel" thing. And then once you get it adjusted to where you feel it's locking down tight. Then you need to put a drop of blue thread locker on that adjustment nut so that it doesn't work loose. And like I show in the video, you need to establish a practice for repeatability if you dismount and remount the optic via the QD bracket.

As for the last round hold back. I've never had that issue, the only suggestions I can come up with is make sure the magazines are clean and that the bolt release is clean. The magazine follower is what pushes up on the bolt release when the mag is empty, so if the mag is dirty or the bolt release is dirty it may be sticking.

grimreaper21 said:

the mount is the problem its been a known issue with ncstar and all this time they still haven't fixed it. i remember reading about it many times before but its too late for me so do some google searching you'll find it. usually sending it back just results in them charging you $10 and then they don't fix anything. although if it is a brand new recent purchase they might not charge. either way it might still be a problem when you get it back. as for the bolt hold open i haven't figured it out yet myself either.. brand new gun, brand new mags.. relatively clean. not sure.

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Shipping it back for a replacement on your own dime is just adding insult to injury. I have two of those pieces of crap, (or I did, anyway). Don't bother, just throw it away, and you'll sleep better at night. I'm using Burris PEPR mounts on all my ARs now. They're only $65 if you shop around.

jsimmons said:

Shipping it back for a replacement on your own dime is just adding insult to injury. I have two of those pieces of crap, (or I did, anyway). Don't bother, just throw it away, and you'll sleep better at night. I'm using Burris PEPR mounts on all my ARs now. They're only $65 if you shop around.

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Well rather than just sit here and slam how bad of a mount it is, which I can't substantiate since I don't own one. Would you care to take a few moments to explain to me why it's such a bad mount? Do you have any specifics on what the issues are? I'm curious! And besides, any real specifics can help buyers make an educated decision.

Brett248Vista said:

Well rather than just sit here and slam how bad of a mount it is, which I can't substantiate since I don't own one. Would you care to take a few moments to explain to me why it's such a bad mount? Do you have any specifics on what the issues are? I'm curious! And besides, any real specifics can help buyers make an educated decision.

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didnt you just say you had this mount with your scope? im confused now. The problem with the one on my buddies is that it just wouldnt hold tight after a few magazines were ran throught the gun, i can understand working loose a little bit on a ermmm "less expensive" (sounds better than cheaply) made mount, but not after just around 100 rounds. The loctite does the trick though! easy fix, just aggravating til you figure out what it is.



EDIT: nvm, see where you had the same TYPE but not exactly the same one.

So the mounts are total pieces of junk, but loctite fixed the only issue you're aware of?

Rustpot said:

So the mounts are total pieces of junk, but loctite fixed the only issue you're aware of?

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That's what I wanted to know too.

See the NcStar scopes (and I assume mounts) come with instructions, but I somehow feel like no one that has "issues" reads these instructions. I will say I know of one NcStar QD mount that was defective, a forum member on here had issues with the locating pins falling out of his. That's obviously bad tolerances in the manufacturing process.

I've had no such issues with my QD mount, but I did read the instructions, I did learn how to properly adjust the tension, I do use repeatable procedure when I mount/dismount and I did thread lock the adjuster nut.