Has the firing out of battery issue been fixed?

Feedme07 · Jun 18, 2012

Hello all,
I'm new to the forum and actually purchased the m&p 15-22 yesterday (still waiting for that 10 day period). Anywyas, I did my homework and decided upon this weapon, although I recently discovered multiple people having issues with firing oob malfunctions. Although I always wear hearing protection, I have never worn gloves when I shoot and typically only where eye protection when I shoot. If the issue hasn't been fixed, It seems I may have to acquire both of these items and refuse to shoot without them while using this weapon. I don't mind this weapon, but I do mind the idea behind it. All the weapons I own I like to be confident in, knowing that if i needed to use it for short periods of survival or for safety issues, that it will get the job done, and more importantly not harm me on accident if I'm unable to use the proper shooting equipment under dire circumstances. I'm thinking about switching my purchase to something like the GSG-5 as the oob instances are far more rare or so it seems, even though my heart has been set on the 15-22. Anways sorry for the long post, whats your guys take? Have these issues been addressed and resolved?
-Thanks
-Charles

grg3d · Jun 18, 2012

Hi and welcome to the forum, I can only speak for myself on this issue, I have fired 1500 rounds now and only had the following issues ( I have had mine since the first of this year)

1 FTF due to loading the magazine wrong
2 duds with CCI Mini Mags 40 grain (had good primer strikes and they did not go off twice each)

There are others here who have a lot higher round count than me (the slide fire group and they fire faster & more than me)

I also have a Ruger 10-22 that has had 1000’s of rounds and never experienced a OOB, I know it happens with semi auto 22’s sometimes but so far in 10 years of shooting it has not happened to me but I also clean my guns after every use…

Take care of your “tools” and they will take care of you.

I’m sure if it was still a problem with the M&P 15-22 it would be all over this fourm.

CPTBeaker · Jun 18, 2012

There is no inherent OOB issue with the 15-22 vs. a lot of other blowback autoloading 22LRs. If you keep your rifle's chamber and bolt face relatively clean you should have no problem.

I wouldn't let reports of 15-22 OOBs run you off.

You can read about OOB on Spikes, Ceiner 22lr conversions, dedicated CMMG .22lr uppers, TacSol LW AR22, etc.

That being said, there is nothing in the design of a lot of .22 autoloaders that stop this from happening (i.e. a timing mechanism / disconnector). Some Marlin autoloaders however do prevent the hammer from falling if the bolt is not in battery, however, unless there is a significant design change forthcoming, nothing has changed on the 15-22 from it's initial release to prevent this from happening. A stronger bolt recoil spring might help but then you risk FTEs & reliability. S&W has upgraded hammer/trigger springs (i.e. the "Blue" springs) to help with the issue, however, a lot of us replace the FCGs and don't experience OOBs...

I have ~2000 rds thru mine without any OOBs (and only moderate cleaning).

Even the long fielded Ruger 10/22 is not immune from OOBs.

Ruger mark II Target 22/45:

Uzi M11/22:

Glock .22lr conversion:

TacSol LW AR22:

Ceiner .22lr conversion:

tork'd · Jun 18, 2012

i can not even begin to tell you how many rounds we have put thru our 15/22 without any oob problems. but i also clean it after every outing. we normally go to the range with 3 other shooters. everyone brings their favorite ammo and we all shoot the 15/22.

on the other hand i do recognize that 10-22 and mark II oob...

Gopher Slayer · Jun 18, 2012

No problems here in thousands of rounds, and I don't clean mine excessively.

Use the ammo suggested on this website and the owners manual that so many never read, not whatever you can find for cheap. Then it will run like a champ.

Feedme07 · Jun 18, 2012

Wow this forum is awesome...What incredible replies in such a short period of time!...I really appreciate all of your guys help and feedback, and am now feeling much more comfortable with my decision. As for ammo, I've definitely done a fair bit of research and have decided to limit this weapons ammo to CCI mini mag and stingers only. Thanks for the input and please keep your opinions coming, the more feedback and comments the better, I really appreciate it.
-Charles

Gopher Slayer · Jun 18, 2012

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think the Stingers will run reliably in any semi-auto due to the longer casing and shorter bullet. They wouldn't in my 10-22 anyway, so I didn't bother trying in the 15-22. The mini mags work great and are very accurate.

If you ever buy bulk ammo, I've had no problems in thousands of rounds with CCI Blazer. The federal stuff is suppose to work well with the 15-22 too, but I can always find the Blazer in stock and cheaper at just about every store in Wshington and Montucky.

Have fun with yours and remember to post pictures and range reports. I never get tired of pics.

Erno86 · Jun 18, 2012

I have a Model "1", and a Spikes Tactical Solutions dedicated 22 AR uppers. Both have experienced OOB's, or premature detonations. Tactical Solutions sent me a beefy'er extractor to "fix" the problem; but the problem still exists. The root of the problem, I believe... is a dirty extractor female groove at the breech of the barrel chamber. It can get clogged with 22 lr powder soot. You need to get a small jeweler's screwdriver, and gouge out all the soot with the blade of the screwdriver in the extractor groove. Keep your extractor clean with blasts of degreaser, while wearing eye protection, and disassembly of the extractor a possibility.

I will have to wait and see if my OOB's still persist, for I first started reaming out the extractor groove, with a small bladed screwdriver just two days ago; while before --- I just used degreaser and a small Q-Tip.
An OOB...can also possibly occur with a "stovepipe" {spent shell casing partially sticking out of the action,} and a live round "partially" in the chamber. This still might be a dirty extractor problem --- but by no means --- do I consider myself as an "expert."

The Model "1" upper started experiencing OOB's at the approx. 40,000 round mark.

The Spikes Tactical Solutions, at the approx. 10,000 thru 15,000 round mark.

REMEMBER: Any OOB, or premature detonation ---- Will result in a squib load {BULLET LODGED IN BARREL!!!}

Majorlk · Jun 18, 2012

FWIW, I have shot probably 200k (at least) through a half-dozen semi-autos (both pistol and rifle) over the past four decades and have yet to experience an out-of-battery discharge.

YMMV.

Brett248Vista · Jun 18, 2012

There isn't a 22 semi auto pistol or rifle that I'm aware of that won't fire OOB.. A quick google will show you that the Ruger Mark Pistols, 10/22's 22 conversion kits for 1911's etc.. all have fired OOB.

rraisley · Jun 18, 2012

Neither my Browning Medalist nor my Hi-Standard Supermatic Trophy will fire OOB. At least OOB by more than 1/64" or so. Same with my 1911, but that's not a 22.

Aceman58 · Jun 18, 2012

I don't think you need to worry about OOB on the M&P 15/22. I've blown thru about 5000 rounds thru mine and I have issues with the 22LR ammo more than the weapon. If kept clean and cleaned between 1500 rounds, it should work very well for you. I would only feed it the good 22 ammo, my test pointed out to CCI Tactical 22LR rounds. Clean, great performance, lightly waxed copper plated designed for Semi-automatics like the 15/22. Only con is it cost about $24 for 374 rounds. That is my setup, good luck...

Majorlk · Jun 18, 2012

Brett248Vista said:
There isn't a 22 semi auto pistol or rifle that I'm aware of that won't fire OOB.. A quick google will show you that the Ruger Mark Pistols, 10/22's 22 conversion kits for 1911's etc.. all have fired OOB.

Well, your experience is different than mine. Every case that I have personal knowledge of was eventually traced back to improper maintenance on the part of the shooter, not any design fault.

photoracer · Jun 19, 2012

There was a design fault in early 15-22s traced to a recoil spring issue, mainly. I saw 3 new first run models have OOB at major rimfire shooting events. Once S&W got them back they replaced the recoil spring with the new "blue" spring (and maybe did some other things). After that I have not heard or seen a 15-22 have the issue and I have seen hundreds of them shot in speed competition events.
My custom Remington 597 had a total of 4 OOBs, 2 in competition and 2 in practice. Only two stuck a bullet in thebarrel. both returned to shooting once I poked the bullet out. What solved the issue in the 597 was going to CCI-SV ammo instead of CCI-MM.
I have not seen a .22 pistol have an OOB in all my memory, only rifles.
It is mainly a timing issue since these are blowback action guns and have a narrow range of correctly working. Anything that can cause the bolt to bounce slightly off the breech face, or speed shooting at too fast a pace such that the sear goes off before the bolt has gone into battery can induce it. Mostly because all blowback guns have the action assembly in trigger lockup when the bolt is still a number of millimeters from battery, depending on the rifle.

Brett248Vista · Jun 19, 2012

Majorlk said:
Well, your experience is different than mine. Every case that I have personal knowledge of was eventually traced back to improper maintenance on the part of the shooter, not any design fault.

Well I do completely disagree and here is why...

The 22's firing pin is not held away from the round at any time, the firing pin can strike the rim of the cartridge in or out of battery on MOST 22 Firearms.

Can it be attributed to maintenance? Who knows, that's MUCH too broad of a brush to paint canvas with. Fact is, it does happen and it is allowed to happen because of the design.

Majorlk · Jun 19, 2012

Brett248Vista said:
The 22's firing pin is not held away from the round at any time, the firing pin can strike the rim of the cartridge in or out of battery on MOST 22 Firearms.

Then explain the purpose of the firing pin spring on the 15-22. The pin IS retracted until struck by the hammer.

If a firing pin protrudes from the bolt face without being struck by the hammer, the cause is almost always, in the cases I have personally seen, debris and/or excess lubricant in the firing pin channel - or a broken firing pin spring.

I wonder how many of these incidents are caused by folks "machine-gunning" their 15-22 - pulling the trigger before the bolt in in battery?

Brett248Vista · Jun 19, 2012

Spin it how you want.. It's happened to people who were not rapid firing, it's happened to firearms long before the 15-22 and it will continue to happen. It's just the nature of the beast that there are occasions where the pin may strike the rim out of battery.

As the firing pin springs wear it will be more common, and if the spring is too light in the original design there will be problems from day one. S&W has already changed all the springs in this rifle at least once that we know of.

Majorlk · Jun 19, 2012

Brett248Vista said:
Spin it how you want.. It's happened to people who were not rapid firing, it's happened to firearms long before the 15-22 and it will continue to happen. It's just the nature of the beast that there are occasions where the pin may strike the rim out of battery.

As the firing pin springs wear it will be more common, and if the spring is too light in the original design there will be problems from day one. S&W has already changed all the springs in this rifle at least once that we know of.

You still haven't explained your obviously incorrect statement: "The 22's firing pin is not held away from the round at any time".

I'm not spinning anything, simply stating that MY experience does not match yours and that every incidence I have personally seen (maybe a half-dozen in 40 years) every one had a firing pin that was jammed extending from the bolt face due to improper maintenance. And I have never had one, in 200k+ rounds in semi-autos.

ChattanoogaPhil · Jun 19, 2012

A couple years ago this forum was flooded with OOB issues, but rarely see any now. If you are considering purchasing a new 15-22 I think you can scratch OOB off the list of concerns.

As far as the 15-22 being reliable in 'dire cicumstances"... I'd say it's as reliable or better than other popular semi-automatic rimfire.

rraisley · Jun 19, 2012

Brett248Vista said:
The 22's firing pin is not held away from the round at any time, the firing pin can strike the rim of the cartridge in or out of battery on MOST 22 Firearms.

How can that be? If that were the case, then the firearm would continue firing every time the slide/bolt slammed forward, right?

AFAIK, as mentioned elsewhere, it's the firing pin spring that holds the pin away from the round. Now, if the FP spring were weak, then it would be possible that when the bolt slammed home, the FP could continue to move forward and hit the round, firing. But even then, the bolt would be in battery. Sounds to me like such a problem would be caused by the FP being locked or jammed forward, for some reason, whether defective or not cleaned properly.

Has the firing out of battery issue been fixed?

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