Hello all,
I'm new to the forum and actually purchased the m&p 15-22 yesterday (still waiting for that 10 day period). Anywyas, I did my homework and decided upon this weapon, although I recently discovered multiple people having issues with firing oob malfunctions. Although I always wear hearing protection, I have never worn gloves when I shoot and typically only where eye protection when I shoot. If the issue hasn't been fixed, It seems I may have to acquire both of these items and refuse to shoot without them while using this weapon. I don't mind this weapon, but I do mind the idea behind it. All the weapons I own I like to be confident in, knowing that if i needed to use it for short periods of survival or for safety issues, that it will get the job done, and more importantly not harm me on accident if I'm unable to use the proper shooting equipment under dire circumstances. I'm thinking about switching my purchase to something like the GSG-5 as the oob instances are far more rare or so it seems, even though my heart has been set on the 15-22. Anways sorry for the long post, whats your guys take? Have these issues been addressed and resolved?
-Thanks
-Charles

Hi and welcome to the forum, I can only speak for myself on this issue, I have fired 1500 rounds now and only had the following issues ( I have had mine since the first of this year)

1 FTF due to loading the magazine wrong
2 duds with CCI Mini Mags 40 grain (had good primer strikes and they did not go off twice each)

There are others here who have a lot higher round count than me (the slide fire group and they fire faster & more than me)

I also have a Ruger 10-22 that has had 1000’s of rounds and never experienced a OOB, I know it happens with semi auto 22’s sometimes but so far in 10 years of shooting it has not happened to me but I also clean my guns after every use…

Take care of your “tools” and they will take care of you.

I’m sure if it was still a problem with the M&P 15-22 it would be all over this fourm.

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M&P15-22’s Tupperware for Guys

There is no inherent OOB issue with the 15-22 vs. a lot of other blowback autoloading 22LRs. If you keep your rifle's chamber and bolt face relatively clean you should have no problem.

I wouldn't let reports of 15-22 OOBs run you off.

You can read about OOB on Spikes, Ceiner 22lr conversions, dedicated CMMG .22lr uppers, TacSol LW AR22, etc.

That being said, there is nothing in the design of a lot of .22 autoloaders that stop this from happening (i.e. a timing mechanism / disconnector). Some Marlin autoloaders however do prevent the hammer from falling if the bolt is not in battery, however, unless there is a significant design change forthcoming, nothing has changed on the 15-22 from it's initial release to prevent this from happening. A stronger bolt recoil spring might help but then you risk FTEs & reliability. S&W has upgraded hammer/trigger springs (i.e. the "Blue" springs) to help with the issue, however, a lot of us replace the FCGs and don't experience OOBs...

I have ~2000 rds thru mine without any OOBs (and only moderate cleaning).


Even the long fielded Ruger 10/22 is not immune from OOBs.


Ruger mark II Target 22/45:


Uzi M11/22:


Glock .22lr conversion:


TacSol LW AR22:


Ceiner .22lr conversion:

i can not even begin to tell you how many rounds we have put thru our 15/22 without any oob problems. but i also clean it after every outing. we normally go to the range with 3 other shooters. everyone brings their favorite ammo and we all shoot the 15/22.

on the other hand i do recognize that 10-22 and mark II oob...

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is it just me?

No problems here in thousands of rounds, and I don't clean mine excessively.

Use the ammo suggested on this website and the owners manual that so many never read, not whatever you can find for cheap. Then it will run like a champ.

Wow this forum is awesome...What incredible replies in such a short period of time!...I really appreciate all of your guys help and feedback, and am now feeling much more comfortable with my decision. As for ammo, I've definitely done a fair bit of research and have decided to limit this weapons ammo to CCI mini mag and stingers only. Thanks for the input and please keep your opinions coming, the more feedback and comments the better, I really appreciate it.
-Charles

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think the Stingers will run reliably in any semi-auto due to the longer casing and shorter bullet. They wouldn't in my 10-22 anyway, so I didn't bother trying in the 15-22. The mini mags work great and are very accurate.

If you ever buy bulk ammo, I've had no problems in thousands of rounds with CCI Blazer. The federal stuff is suppose to work well with the 15-22 too, but I can always find the Blazer in stock and cheaper at just about every store in Wshington and Montucky.

Have fun with yours and remember to post pictures and range reports. I never get tired of pics.

I have a Model "1", and a Spikes Tactical Solutions dedicated 22 AR uppers. Both have experienced OOB's, or premature detonations. Tactical Solutions sent me a beefy'er extractor to "fix" the problem; but the problem still exists. The root of the problem, I believe... is a dirty extractor female groove at the breech of the barrel chamber. It can get clogged with 22 lr powder soot. You need to get a small jeweler's screwdriver, and gouge out all the soot with the blade of the screwdriver in the extractor groove. Keep your extractor clean with blasts of degreaser, while wearing eye protection, and disassembly of the extractor a possibility.

I will have to wait and see if my OOB's still persist, for I first started reaming out the extractor groove, with a small bladed screwdriver just two days ago; while before --- I just used degreaser and a small Q-Tip.
An OOB...can also possibly occur with a "stovepipe" {spent shell casing partially sticking out of the action,} and a live round "partially" in the chamber. This still might be a dirty extractor problem --- but by no means --- do I consider myself as an "expert."

The Model "1" upper started experiencing OOB's at the approx. 40,000 round mark.

The Spikes Tactical Solutions, at the approx. 10,000 thru 15,000 round mark.

REMEMBER: Any OOB, or premature detonation ---- Will result in a squib load {BULLET LODGED IN BARREL!!!}

FWIW, I have shot probably 200k (at least) through a half-dozen semi-autos (both pistol and rifle) over the past four decades and have yet to experience an out-of-battery discharge.

YMMV.

There isn't a 22 semi auto pistol or rifle that I'm aware of that won't fire OOB.. A quick google will show you that the Ruger Mark Pistols, 10/22's 22 conversion kits for 1911's etc.. all have fired OOB.

Neither my Browning Medalist nor my Hi-Standard Supermatic Trophy will fire OOB. At least OOB by more than 1/64" or so. Same with my 1911, but that's not a 22.

I don't think you need to worry about OOB on the M&P 15/22. I've blown thru about 5000 rounds thru mine and I have issues with the 22LR ammo more than the weapon. If kept clean and cleaned between 1500 rounds, it should work very well for you. I would only feed it the good 22 ammo, my test pointed out to CCI Tactical 22LR rounds. Clean, great performance, lightly waxed copper plated designed for Semi-automatics like the 15/22. Only con is it cost about $24 for 374 rounds. That is my setup, good luck...

Well, your experience is different than mine. Every case that I have personal knowledge of was eventually traced back to improper maintenance on the part of the shooter, not any design fault.

There was a design fault in early 15-22s traced to a recoil spring issue, mainly. I saw 3 new first run models have OOB at major rimfire shooting events. Once S&W got them back they replaced the recoil spring with the new "blue" spring (and maybe did some other things). After that I have not heard or seen a 15-22 have the issue and I have seen hundreds of them shot in speed competition events.
My custom Remington 597 had a total of 4 OOBs, 2 in competition and 2 in practice. Only two stuck a bullet in thebarrel. both returned to shooting once I poked the bullet out. What solved the issue in the 597 was going to CCI-SV ammo instead of CCI-MM.
I have not seen a .22 pistol have an OOB in all my memory, only rifles.
It is mainly a timing issue since these are blowback action guns and have a narrow range of correctly working. Anything that can cause the bolt to bounce slightly off the breech face, or speed shooting at too fast a pace such that the sear goes off before the bolt has gone into battery can induce it. Mostly because all blowback guns have the action assembly in trigger lockup when the bolt is still a number of millimeters from battery, depending on the rifle.

Well I do completely disagree and here is why...

The 22's firing pin is not held away from the round at any time, the firing pin can strike the rim of the cartridge in or out of battery on MOST 22 Firearms.

Can it be attributed to maintenance? Who knows, that's MUCH too broad of a brush to paint canvas with. Fact is, it does happen and it is allowed to happen because of the design.

Then explain the purpose of the firing pin spring on the 15-22. The pin IS retracted until struck by the hammer.

If a firing pin protrudes from the bolt face without being struck by the hammer, the cause is almost always, in the cases I have personally seen, debris and/or excess lubricant in the firing pin channel - or a broken firing pin spring.

I wonder how many of these incidents are caused by folks "machine-gunning" their 15-22 - pulling the trigger before the bolt in in battery?

Spin it how you want.. It's happened to people who were not rapid firing, it's happened to firearms long before the 15-22 and it will continue to happen. It's just the nature of the beast that there are occasions where the pin may strike the rim out of battery.

As the firing pin springs wear it will be more common, and if the spring is too light in the original design there will be problems from day one. S&W has already changed all the springs in this rifle at least once that we know of.

You still haven't explained your obviously incorrect statement: "The 22's firing pin is not held away from the round at any time".

I'm not spinning anything, simply stating that MY experience does not match yours and that every incidence I have personally seen (maybe a half-dozen in 40 years) every one had a firing pin that was jammed extending from the bolt face due to improper maintenance. And I have never had one, in 200k+ rounds in semi-autos.

A couple years ago this forum was flooded with OOB issues, but rarely see any now. If you are considering purchasing a new 15-22 I think you can scratch OOB off the list of concerns.

As far as the 15-22 being reliable in 'dire cicumstances"... I'd say it's as reliable or better than other popular semi-automatic rimfire.

How can that be? If that were the case, then the firearm would continue firing every time the slide/bolt slammed forward, right?

AFAIK, as mentioned elsewhere, it's the firing pin spring that holds the pin away from the round. Now, if the FP spring were weak, then it would be possible that when the bolt slammed home, the FP could continue to move forward and hit the round, firing. But even then, the bolt would be in battery. Sounds to me like such a problem would be caused by the FP being locked or jammed forward, for some reason, whether defective or not cleaned properly.

There is NO mechanical interlock to stop the pin from moving at any time. The only barrier stopping pin movement is the spring. This is not like centerfire rifles where the pin is too short to reach the primer until the bolt is positively in battery. Inertia can move the pin and a light or weak spring will cause it to strike. And also as Major posted, dirt and debris can cause issues too, if you space the bolt back 1.5mm out of battery it will easily still fire the round, I've proven this and have the video on Youtube.

Same here. Only you can add a decade+. I have pushed all my weapons to their limits durring break-in and have never had any OOBD's.

FWIW. I also clean my weapons on a regular basis and inspect EVERY nook and cranny once they are (what I consider) broken-in.

From a survival standpoint in the Military. I have had many weapons smokin' hot to the point of burning out barrels and seen strange things happen to them in the heat of battle.

I've often wondered if some of those OOBD's (besides being dirty weapons), have happened because some one was playing "Master Blaster" with their semi auto 22 ???

Agreed, of course.
Also agreed.
I agree with that as well, but don't think inertia could cause it to fire OOB. Inertia tends to push the FP against the cartridge at two times: 1) When the cartridge is fired and slams back against the slide/bolt; but of course, it's already been fired then. 2) When the slide/bolt slams home in the chamber, against the cartridge. This would cause a run-on or automatic firing, but it would be in battery at this point, unless of course the cartridge was oversize. And if it were oversize or jammed before going into battery, the inertia and force on the FP would be somewhat less than if it went into battery correctly, so doubt very much this would cause the problem.

The remainder of the time, inertia tends to keep the firing pin away from the cartridge, as does the FP spring. Maybe you could drop the gun on its barrel end causing it to fire, but I'm talking about normal operation.

To me, the only way it could fire OOB is if an oversize casing or obstruction prevented the cartridge, and therefore the bolt, from slamming home /and/ the user fired the gun. Certainly not an impossible situation, but definitely (?) one created by the ammo and not the gun. (edit: that's probably too strong. A gun problem could obviously cause the ammo to jam.)

I'm sure that is the case, which is what I described above. I just don't think it could be caused by inertia, but rather the shooter has to have fired the gun using the trigger.

I have a Remington nylon 66 and never had an oob or FTE and have fired thousands of rounds of all kinds of ammo in it. It will fire as fast as you can pull the trigger (machine gunning the trigger) and it keeps on firing.

I have an M&P 15-22 and had one oob fire today and it did a double fire twice in 50 rounds.

Actually I've seen it happen in an AR-15 that I once owned. This was the A1 rifle model from many years ago. We were out in the country and the current owner was putting as many rounds through the barrel as he could in as short a space of time as possible. We figure he was somewhere around 2-3000 rounds and it was so hot the round cooked off before it was completely chambered. Blew the magazine out the bottom and ruined the bolt and all. Fortunately it didn't ruin him or the upper and lower or barrel. Rebuilt it and he still uses it with his Russian night scope on coyotes. (Yes, he's about half crazy but we grew up together so that sort of explains both of us.) Point is, you get anything hot enough and it will cook off a round.

CW

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Brett248Vista knows what he is talking about. In the early days of the 15-22 (and it's initial teething issues) he did some quite impressive research on this issue. Thanks again Brett.

There was an issue on some of the first guns. I know that as a fact, as we experienced one on our first outing with our first 15-22. It was cleaned well before our first range trip. It was with Federal Bulk pack that was in very good condition (we only buy fresh ammo in mass bulk). It was the 108th round ever fired out of it. Our gun was replaced immediately.

So:
- those that say it only occurred due to poor gun maintenance are WRONG
- Those that say it only occurred with non-approved ammo are WRONG.
Those are facts, spin it how you like.

Our 2nd 15-22 has well over 10,000 rounds now, and not a single issue ever with it. We really like it, can't say enough good about that gun. But the early issues are well documented fact.

BTW - I've seen this occur on other .22 LR rifles.

My 15-22 experienced the double fire and the OOB discharge. The OOB was while using Remington Gloden Bullet bulk and it happened more than once on the same day. The rifle was brand new and out for the first time,very dissappointing at the time. As advised by this forum I sent it back to S&W and they did the upgrade to the bolt spring ,extractor and hammer spring. Since then I've put everything through with little or no problems what so ever.
I did have a Colt Huntsman match that fired OOB one time,scared the **** outta me,even blew bits of brass into my fore head,but that was the only time it happened and I'm pretty sure it was due to some sticky bullet lube that did'nt let the cartridge go into the chamber all the way causing the bolt to be out away from the breech,and I don't remember what I was using at the time.

are you still using the same ammo? there are better options like cci blazer and federal bulk.

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od: xd9 3"&4", 15-22, 1911 .22

Ammo has'nt been much of a problem since I got it back and the Colt was lost in my divorce (I miss that pistol,bought it with money I earned working in my Dad's fire extinguisher shop one summer) I use to try not to use the Rem but I have a ton of it that needs to be shot,so now that my 1522's can shoot it I use it as much as any other I have

Tens of thousands of rounds through mine... no OOB's and very, very few malfunctions of any kind. An average range day will include 500+ rounds through the 15-22 and it's extremely rare to see problems at all.