New to forums and I have a question that you guys might be able to help with.

I own a 15-22 and love it. I also have a Silencerco Sparrow suppressor that I have used on the rifle. After shooting with the suppressor on the rifle and also on a pistol, I almost immediately decided that I wanted a 15-22 that would be as quiet as the pistol with bulk ammo (no supersonic crack). So now I am wanting to either SBR a 15-22, chopping the barrel to around 4.5" or possibly get an integrally suppressed version of the 15-22.

If I go the SBR route, then I will probably also purchase another silencer for full time use on that weapon. I would need a smith that knows 15-22s to cut and rethread the barrel. This would leave me with a very short, handy, and quiet gun. The cost of rifle + stamp + silencer + stamp + gunsmithy work. . . or

Innovative Arms has an integrally suppressed 15-22 rifle for msrp $1150 + tax stamp + transfer & paperwork fees. Leaves me with a full size 15-22 that is only slightly heavier than the standard rifle but always suppressed. The SBR route would be better handling due to reduced length, but that is the only upside I see as I wouldn't be using the suppressor on anything else (already have the sparrow for that).

I am open to input and thoughts on this, so please chime in. Also would love to hear from anybody who has experience with the Innovative Arms integral gun. Which is the better path financially and which will leave me with the better weapon. BTW cool factor is meaningless to me as I don't care about showing off at the range or posting pics and gloating on forums. I am concerned with which will be the most fun, reliable, and quiet.

Thanks for any help y'all can provide.

If this is the case, why not just use subsonic ammo? It would be much cheaper than a SBR with associated costs & stamp.

Now if you just want a SBR, that is a different matter.

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Partially because I don't want to have to rely on buying a specific kind of ammo. Also, I was shooting some "subsonic" ammo that still went supersonic out of the 16" barrel. I have a bunch of CCI standard velocity that stays subsonic, but I have thousands of more rounds of other ammo that is supersonic. And this type of bulk pack ammo is readily available, under typical conditions (ignoring current ammo shortages). Much nicer for me to walk into Wal-Mart and pick up a couple of bricks of ammo and be able to shoot it suppressed, or use whatever ammo my friends have brought with them.

I have other suppressors in different calibers, and realize when using them that ammunition selection is key to effective silencing. However, I do not want to have to be picky about ammo with a 22. I know I mentioned price as a factor, but freedom to use cheap readily available ammo and get the same results is worth it to me. My question was regarding weapons, not ammo.

Good luck on getting consistent quiet reports with HV ammo, no matter what you do to your firearm. Suppressed operation IS very ammo-dependent. There a reason subsonic ammo is below 1,000 fps.

You can't change the laws of physics.

I have had very good luck apparently when shooting my pistols suppressed. Virtually none of my ammo goes supersonic out of their short barrels. Now if using the integrally suppressed gun I would still have ammo going supersonic, that is the type of information I am looking for. In that case, I would go the SBR path. It was my understanding that the integral gun's barrel was ported so that typically supersonic ammo stayed subsonic.

You can probably get some good advice here:
SilencerTalk ? Index page

They have a rimfire section.

JM: Why? Do you want to use the 15-22 quietly at a distance that you can not use the pistol at? If so cutting barrel to 5" will limit your effective range to that of the pistol. Will the loss of velocity affect it's effectiveness on small game/critters/target? Also if you travel ( cross states line ) you can do so with the can but the SBR requires other "reporting". You mentioned using bulk ammo, whatever is there? certain brand?. I looked at the IA 15-22 - nice-but< 1150+ 200+75+80-90 for sales tax = 1515 approx vs 350$ for 5000 rds of subsonic remington, price would come to about 1500$ for 25000 rds of sub. So back to the original question- Why - If you need a smaller package you have the pistol, if you went with a 12" bbl SBR, you are only (gaining/losing ) 4" over factory gun, but would still have rifle like accuracy, if you go to 5" you now have a stocked handgun, giving up vel,accuracy. You could also try some CCI Quiet 22lr and that may give you what you are looking for in sound, maintain accuracy, save you 1500$ and you do not have to wait 7+ mo for paperwork. Just some ideas. Be Safe,

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SilencerTalk is a good place to look around. There was a video posted there of a Ruger MKIII that was integrally suppressed by SRT Arms that was specifically designed to use CCI Mini-Mags. It's a pistol, so I don't know if a rifle could be made to be reliably subsonic using HV ammo, but it would be cool if it could be.
SRT Arms Intergrally Suppressed MKIII Government Model - YouTube

I think that just maybe the OP is looking for justification to get a SBR... not looking for logic. The "high" cost of subsonic ammo over bulk ammo sounds like as good a reason as any.

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sub's are about .75 cents higher than normal .22 here. I don't personally have an integrated suppressed gun, but a friend does, and he can't stand to fire it due to the next to impossible job of tearing it apart every time he fires it since it gets so filthy, especially and more importantly more filthy than with a regular can (it's a 10/22) He wishes he would have just saved the money and stuck with cans only, left the rifle alone.
cost alone to SBR a .22 is really kinda silly, i mean i can see it on a 5.56 but to spend that much on a plastic .22 does not make sense to me.
sure with regular ammo you get sonic crack, the can is to make your shooting position not so noticeable so the enemy/prey cannot tell where it is coming from. notice the military does not use sub sonic 5.56...no good recipe for it really.

i've gotten 2-3 shots of dogs (coyotes) who just stand there after say i miss the first shot (does happen) since they can't tell where it came from, if you are camo'd correctly, so that opens you up for consecutive shots.
depends on your distance also from muzzle end to target..say 16" bbl to a target 50 ft away....will it go over 1000 fps to get there thus breaking the sound barrier? sometimes yes, sometimes no. fire any suppressed weapon into a good backstop 10 feet away and you will not hear it since it can't get up to speed.

wouldn't waste the time nor the money, unless you happen to have the disposable income to do so for fun, like the 99% of us do not have.

Each? Where are you?

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What does that even mean?

99% of us don't have disposable income for fun?
(Looks in gun cabinet)
Your stats might be a tad off.

I need no justification to get an sbr or can. If I want it, I will get it. I was wondering which would be the better option in regards to the firearm itself. As I have no experience with either of these options, I asked for opinions. Opinions on the firearms, not ammo.

And the cost of the ammo isn't my issue...availability is. Subsonic ammo is not readily available where I am. In fact no .22 ammo is right now, subsonic especially isn't to be found locally. And when I go plinking alone or with a group of my buddies, blowing through several bricks of ammo in a day is effortless. Thats why I want to be able to use the most readily available ammo and suppress it to the level I desire.

The round has all the speed leaving the muzzle that it is going to have.

You also assume I am suppressing this so that I don't spook game that I am shooting at. Not the case, I am suppressing for my personal comfort and the comfort of the humans near me.

Useful info though if the integral gun is difficult to clean, but you told me about your friend's 10/22. Not the gun I asked about which may be constructed in a way where cleaning isn't a chore.

Thanks, will check there too.

Yes, any projectile is going at max speed when it leaves the barrel. Unless it has a secondary propellant pushing it faster such as the artillery Rocket Assisted Projectile (RAP).

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The 15-22 and Sparrow sounds pretty quite with subsonic ammo. It may sound louder to the shooter because the plastic stock is right against your check bone. The Sparrow has little first round pop on a rifle length barrel but has a FRP on a pistol length barrel.

Any barrel under 4.5" (rifle or pistol) will keep high velocity .22LR ammo subsonic. Some hyper velocity ammo could still go super depending on altitude and temperature.

Accuracy is dependent on how well the muzzle crown is created, not barrel length. Barrel length adds velocity. A good suppressed host should be around 1000 fps.

Innovative Arms makes a good product but you already have one of the best suppressors for a rifle. It would be cheaper, easier to clean and faster to shorten or re-thread your 15-22. Be sure to ask for Sparrow thread specs. He does a good job and is affordable. JP grips did my 2" barreled MKII/III and it will still outshoot a P22, M&P22 or SR22.

OP ( or others) how does the intregally suppressed keep the bullet from being super sonic out of a 16" barrel? Does this method slow the bullet down?

I have an AAC Element and had a Ruger MKIII pistol cut down to I believe 3.5" so it keeps everything sub sonic. This combo works great.

The Element suppressor on my 16" barreled Spikes .22 keeps things quiet enough to me even with super sonic Federal 36 Grn bulk pack.

My one complaint is cleaning the suppressor is time consuming.

I got off track. How's the intregally surpressed rifle work if it has a 16" barrel to keep rounds subsonic? I'm clearly missing something here.

Emory

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JM: PM Sent.

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crofoot629: I just spoke to the company and they are using a 10" barrel, ports, and their can. Interesting setup that appears well thought out , to maintain accuracy, sound suppression, cleaning ability. It will be quiet with bulk ammo and still be user friendly. I watched their videos- impressive- and will let you know how mine sounds, works when I get it. Be Safe,

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Suppressed SBR in .300 ACC (Game Over)

No need to play around with a suppressed SBR in .22LR. Why give up accuracy and distance for something that looks cool.

Spend the money, have something that looks cool. And still have something that will out perform any other caliber suppressed in SBR.

While I agree on a 300 BLK SBR as being awesome, it has a few disadvantages. The 300 BO is a special purpose tool. It's well over a dollar a round now. That right there can take the fun out of plinking. It's not close to being as quiet as a .22LR, even with the best suppressed integral, the Liberty Suppressors Leonidas.

Here's mine. I much prefer to shoot my suppressed SBR 15-22 on a daily basis over my suppressed 300 BO SBR.

Thanks for the I formation.
It still seems to me that a 10" barrel would shoot high velocity ammo at super sonic speeds?

A 10" AR that was suppressed and stayed sub sonic would be a hoot!

Emory

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All these methods don't slow bullets down. They keep bullets from reaching enough velocity to break the sound barrier.

Standard velocity or subsonic ammo keep their ammo from reaching the sound barrier on long barrels. Short barrels or ported barrels keep the high velocity bullets from reaching the sound barrier. Here is a guide. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .22 Results

You would need to use subsonic or standard velocity ammo for that. Most people pick which ever velocity ammo stays subsonic and maintains reliable function of the host.

[QUOTE=strobro32;137357547]All these methods don't slow bullets down. They keep bullets from reaching enough velocity to break the sound barrier.

Standard velocity or subsonic ammo keep their ammo from reaching the sound barrier on long barrels. Short barrels or ported barrels keep the high velocity bullets from reaching the sound barrier. Here is a guide. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .22 Results[/QUOTE

Yep, hence the 3.5" barrel on my MKIII.
So the 10" intregally suppressed barrel has "ports" that bleed of gas never allowing the bullet to go super sonic. Because a 10" barrel would be super sonic with most 36 grn HV ammo with a Can on the end of the barrel.

Emory

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I am actually waiting on stamps for a 7.62 suppressor and SBR for exactly that caliber.

It has a totally different purpose than a .22 though.

crofoot629: I wish a 10" 223 were "super quiet" but you are dealing with a velocity of 2700+/- compared to a 22 lr that is in the 1100 +/- range, so it is just easier to get there from here! Physics still rules. Be Safe,

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The problem with that is that even with 40g Minimags rated at 1235 FPS to get the velocity consisently below 1126 FPS (sea level) the barrel has to be somewhere in the 6" range. If you live higher than sea level the SB is even lower and it decreases even more as the temp goes down. For Fed 550 bulk it would have to be even shorter. Are you prepared to have a 15-22 with a barrel as short as a Ruger or Browning pistol? Might as well find a 15-22 pistol instead.
See this site for relevant info:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .22 Results

Like others have said most who want to suppress a .22 and use HV ammo either get a short barreled pistol made (or a Tac Sol 4" threaded barrel added to a Ruger or Browning)or buy a Browning Buckmark Micro (4").

fire any suppressed weapon into a good backstop 10 feet away and you will not hear it since it can't get up to speed.
You need to learn something about firearm ballistics friend. As soon as the bullet leaves the barrel it starts slowing down because there is no longer any gas pushing it. Anyone who has ever used a chronograph knows this. There is only one firearm in the history of personal weapons that this does not apply to, the Gyrojet Rocket Pistol. Look it up if you don't know why.

In my original post I mentioned a 4.5" barrel, so I am well aware it would be under 6". And I also mentioned already having and using my Sparrow on pistols. I don't want another pistol. I want a gun with a shoulder stock, proper 2 hand grip, and a cheek weld. That length barrel with a shoulder stock and a handguard covering most of the suppressor would be about the same length as a 7-10" barreled ar15. Shot some of those and that is a quite handy length.

After getting some info via pm and phone calls though, it is looking like I may give the integral 15-22 from Innovative Arms a try. Still mulling things over for now

Trying to understand your logic... not put you down. This interests me as I'm awaiting my stamp on my 22Sparrow.

Since you already have a 15-22 and a 22Sparrow, what does the Innovative Arms gun give you that you don't already have? Would that suppressor not be much more difficult to clean than a Sparrow?

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What it would give me is a firearm that shoots bulk ammo that stays subsonic out of a shoulder fired weapon. Quiet like my pistol with the sparrow and no sonic crack.

As far as cleaning goes, the integral gun has a shortened and ported barrel. The baffles on the end of that are a monocore baffle stack exactly like what all the easy to clean silencers from Silencerco, AAC, or etc use. Take endcap off and remove baffle stack, then clean and reassemble. Only difficult part seems that it would be swabbing out the sleeve over the barrel where the ports might let some crud out. I think a cleaning rod would get that done just fine.

Besides, part of my shooting ritual is to come home afterwards and clean my guns while sitting in front of the tv. A couple of tv episodes or a movie later and I am done. I don't see frustration in that, more like meditation

Also Redneck, you won't be disappointed by the Sparrow. It is a great can that I would recommend to anybody. 1 of the best options out there for a 22 silencer.

The Major is correct in all respects on this, but for one small exception: the speed of sound is 1,126fps.

Almost all match grade 22LR is below 1,060. Most is around 1,040fps.

If you want to assure the bullet does not go supersonic out of the barrel, use ammunition designed for the purpose.

I shoot CCI SS and SS Segmented out of my 15-22 with an AAC Element and it is very quiet, both at the muzzle and down range. Any match ammo that I have used is equally as quiet. If that is what you desire, use the right ammo.

As for the comments about shooting dirty; that's any can, on any gun, with any ammo.

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Is the baffle stack Stainless?

Do you have to purchase two stamps... one for being SBR and one for the suppressor?

Seems like a cool gun but doesn't make sense to me. But that is not important because a lot of what I have doesn't make sense to others, and in the US of A you don't have to justify play things... well maybe to the wife. Just seems like this gun looks, feels and acts just like your 15-22 with the Sparrow. Looks like you are spending $1500+ just to shoot bulk ammo. Even during these trying times, I have still been able to purchase thousands of rounds of subsonic ammo. That is pretty much all I purchase nowadays.

So if I do some simple math and assume my subsonic ammo costs .03 more than bulk (just throwing numbers out), that means for that $1500 I could purchase 50,000 rounds of the more expensive ammo. That is a lot of shooting. Even now on Gunbroker, with those high costs, I can purchase 5000 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity for $ 575, so there is plenty of ammo out there.

Once again, you don't have to justify anything to me. I just don't see the importance of shooting bulk ammo in the purchase equation.

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Redneck, the baffles are stainless.

It is only 1 stamp for the suppressor, which is an integral part of the barrel. The length of that unit is over 16", so it isn't an SBR. Same way an AMD-65 is not an SBR even though the barrel is 12", it has a permanently attached muzzle brake that makes it over 16".

The msrp for that Innovative Arms gun is $1150, but it is much cheaper than that if I just send him my upper and let him build it off that.

Maybe I am crazy regarding the ammo, but another way to look at it is this...In every type of shooting except suppressed shooting I prefer my rounds to have as high a velocity as possible. That said, if I am going to buy up ammo then I would prefer the high velocity type. As I said, maybe crazy to you but it makes sense in my twisted little mind because I don't believe in having a stock of ammo that I am only going to use in 1 gun, and only when that gun has a can on it.

Just to be clear, I did not say, or even intimate, that the speed of sound was 1,000 fps. I simply stated that subsonic ammo was generally below that figure.

If you want to suppress a .22 in an AR platform - SBR a regular AR lower and then you can get a dedicated upper in any caliber ie: 22 LR, 300 BO or whatever. Use a dedicated integral or screw on suppressor. (I have both and works well) I have not found that sub sonic ammo works very well in a .22 auto but standard velocity and even high velocity does and suppresses well. As far as the 300 BO comment about $1 a round, anyone that shoots one of these should really reload... I sure enjoy mine in a bolt gun and semi auto. Considering the 55K backlog of ATF form 4's, I would say that 99% not having funds for toys is quite a bit off. Most of the guys here have plenty of "toys" as well as safe queens (which are a real waste of $$$) And - as long as the bills are paid, I will buy anything I want.

Understood and I stand corrected. Most of the sub-sonic stuff is around 1,040fps.

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Jonnie, your dilemma makes perfect sense to me.

There is a third option... Integrally suppress your 1522. Contact Belt_Fed see 1522 Classifieds for contact info.

Jonnie,

I think you should listen to your instincts. You already have one of the best .22 rifles and suppressors. Just Form 1 SBR it a 4.5" and use the Sparrow.

I've owned 2 integrals and rarely shot them as they are a PITA to maintain. No integral design will be as easy to clean as the Sparrow.

Wait times are crazy now. If you send send it out to IA for an integral, it will be gone for 8 months, 1 year if IA is not in your state. A F1 SBR is just as long but you can still shoot it with the longer barrel while waiting on the F1. I really like my 15-22 SBR, 4.5" barrel and Sparrow and recommend the combo.

Have fun with what ever you decide. Please share a picture (even though you don't want to brag) as it helps others with these conundrums. There's no substitute for experience.

Matt

the wait is examiner dependent since they divided them up into sections. Ann Feltner is exactly 6 months for a form 4. form 1 should be the same as it is the exact same kind of check. I spoke with her about the 2 i have in line that will be due at the end of august and she stated they will be on time. Just FYI, you can speak to the examiner that has your section of the country if you like.

Matt, help me understand. If I send off a form 1 to SBR my 15-22, all that entails is just the fee & the paperwork? The gun stays in service during the wait? When the form comes in, do you have to submit paperwork to transfer the gun to the service provider doing the shortening & threading?

Also, I read somewhere where it is legal to have 2 barrels... one short & a standard length & you can go back & forth with no requirement to notify BTAFE. It said they would like to be notified but there is no requirement. This right?

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If you do a Form 1 for a SBR, you can keep it until the Form 1 is approved and then send it off the be chopped and threaded. The BATFE will send the Form 1 to your house.

Most threaders do not want a copy of the Form 1. It is not illegal for them to do it as the barrel might be used on a pistol which has no barrel length requirement.

You can use any barrel length or uppers on a registered SBR as long as you keep the one in your possession that was registered.

Well OK. There goes another $200.

Seems like a no brainer to me. I would not want my 15-22 to be short barreled all the time but for $200 plus additional barrel, I wouldn't mind having the option to shoot suppressed both ways.

Since I will need to purchase another barrel, where do y'all get them from... S&W? Any source to get the short, threaded barrel initially, as opposed to buying a regular one & working on it?

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You can get a replacement barrel from S&W, but not the ejector or the collar/extension that holds the ejector to the barrel as far as I know. Would be nice to have a second upper with short barrel so you could swap back and forth once registered as an SBR. Easiest way for now would be to buy a 15-22 pistol and use it's upper.

Might I suggest just owning two 15-22's. Keep the one integral, and use the other with your thread on suppressor. First post, Hi All.

I want to know where your walmart is

Welcome.

Then I would have to outfit my 2nd one with all the goodies that I have on my 1st. They cost more than the gun. Would rather swap out a barrel, to go from SBR to regular.

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