Gonna take the Form 4 plunge. Not going the trust route, for I have a Sheriff that has no problem signing off on suppressors. Anyhoo, a local dealer has a Gemtech and, since my 15-22 has no muzzle device, will thread my barrel for free upon purchase of the suppressor and clearance of ATF paperwork.

Questions:

1) Is the Gemtech a good one?

2) What will the suppression level be if I keep using my favorite ammo, the CCI Mini-Mag? Can I keep using this ammo or will I be stuck going to subsonic ammo for maximum suppression?

Discuss.

I use the Sparrow, so can't comment on Gemtech.

Must use subsonic for maximum sound suppression. With high velocity ammo, such as Mini-Mag, you will still get the loud sonic crack. With subsonic & my 15-22, the loudest sound is the bolt cycling and the clang of the round hitting steel. With my bolt action CZ, it sounds like a pellet gun.

Be REAL, REAL careful on who threads your barrel. Done wrong, it impacts accuracy & safety. I use ADCO, as they specialize in doing it. I would never let just anyone do it... even if free.

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Which Gemtech can? I would only suggest a can with stainless steel innards for ease of cleaning. I think Gemtech had a SS Alpine with M baffles.

CCI Mini Mags will have a ballistic crack out of a 16" barrel. You should use standard velocity or subsonic ammo for best results.

Another thing you might consider is buying an additional 15-22 that already has a threaded barrel. Then see if he will cut your current barrel and thread it at a length the will keep the CCI Mini Mags subsonic. Just put in the form 1 for the SBR at the same time as the form 4 for the silencer...it's only money...

There are plenty of other reasons to GO the trust route. Just because your sheriff is friendly now doesn't mean it will stay that way. Plus if you want others to use it, the trust is easier in the long run. But it's your decision.

All hv ammo will have a sonic crack out of a 16" barrel. Standard velocity ammo is subsonic most of the time (depending on weather).

Gem tech is not the top tier 22lr supressor. Doesn't mean it's bad though. Don't think it's as easy to clean as the sparrow.

You are stuck with sub-sonic ammo if you want it to be quite. Now to find some that will cycle your gun!! Beings rimfire rounds are dirty, you must clean the suppressor very often. I have several different ones. Top of my list is the AAC Element . It's easy to take apart after 700rds. and has the K baffles. The aluminum baffle type erode after a will and loose the efficiency. I had my first one since the early 90's.

As for the barrel threading, factory threading is hard to beat, someone else may just throw a die on it . Factory is done off the BORE.

I would not limit my choices to what a local gun shop has on hand. Check SilencerShop. Good selection and prices. No nonsense folks who are great to do business with.

Another recommendation for ADCO barrel threading. They do great work and they do it proper. I've had 3 barrels shipped in to them for threading and all have had an 8 day turnaround time from the day I dropped it off at the post office to the day it hit my doorstep.

+1 for all of the above. I do not know which gemtech you are talking about? I have used sparrow SS, spectre II, apex from Innovative Arms, Kodiak TL from Liberty Suppressors, that said I am a distributor for Liberty Suppressors and I like Kodiak best. Before you say it, I have had first round pop from all 4 on different days, weather, temp,ammo, etc. You will get a crack from most ammo, with most cans unless it is subsonic. Innovative arms does a integral can on 15-22 upper which is the quietest of all. It is not that difficult to clean, you only hear the click of the action with Federal bulk 36 gr 1250 FPS?. They cut the barrel to about 10" then permanently add the suppressor to keep it over 16" so no SBR. Suppressors do not require ATF permission to travel to a legal location, while SBR's do. The can will only be on 1 gun but you can shoot standard + HV quietly. Depends on your funds, wants, time. Free threading is not free if it is not centered on the bore and you get baffle strikes!! Silencer shop has the best prices of anyone, fast CORRECT paperwork, excellent to work with. I do not know your dealer and I am not degrading his work, just trying to let you know the good, the bad, the ugly!! Check prices, other forums. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

I was looking at Silencer shop prices and a Gemtech Outback IID is 270$ shipped and in stock. Just to help you compare if he is selling you the gemtech for 225$, it is new, and that includes his transfer cost, that would be very reasonable, but if the price is 300$, plus 50$ for transfer I would look long and hard before going that way. Again I do not know which gemtech you are talking about, this is there least expensive one. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

As I said before, I don't have one however I note some of the Gemtech models mentioned aren't stainless steel... but are aluminum. From my experience, stick with stainless. These cans can be extremely hard to clean. I tried several methods of cleaning mine but found the dip to be the best way... by far. It is easy. Just mix equal amounts of vinegar & hydrogen peroxide in a glass jar, add the stainless suppressor parts, let bubble for 24 hours and then wipe off the residue. No scrubbing whatsoever & shinny as new. DO NOT put aluminum parts in the dip.

I dip mine after every 500 rounds or so. Having a user serviceable can is very important but to me, having one that can be dipped is just as important.

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Just remember that the dip is extremely toxic! DO NOT just dump it down the drain!!!

Actually, the residue from any method of cleaning is toxic. Even if you were to sandblast it off, that dust would be toxic. When using the dip, after cleaning the liquid contains lead acetate. I don't touch the stuff. I use tongs to remove the parts from the jar, then wipe them down while wearing gloves. I pour the liquid in a plastic container designed to hold toxic waste & have it labeled with proper hazard labels. At the point the container gets near full, I will give it to folks licensed to take such material. That should be several years down the road.

My setup. I use 35% hydrogen peroxide that I order from Amazon & dilute 50% with water. You can use the normal stuff but this works a bit better, I think.

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I have a buddy building mine for the 15-22 out of titanium. Which I can get a little cheaper than the price of most places online. His 15-22 is quiet enough that he could be shooting it and u could still hear a mouse fart. Plus it'll be a custom one off CAN. I've always been a sucker for customs.

once the sheriff signs off...it doesn't matter if he remains "friendly"or not...his signature merely states there are no local laws forbidding ownership

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

For that suppressor, yes. But once you have the NFA bug, you will want more items, in all likelihood. A trust is easy to obtain and maintain. I doubt 41p will ever see the light of day IMHO.... Meaning that I don't care which political persuasion my local CLEO has that day.

Ya'll need to look up FIRE CLEAN on You tube, or their web site. I clean after 1500 rounds. NON -TOXIC safe for everybody, and use one drop on Q-tip to coat hole can. To clean it, just air hose it off.

I think it important you understand, the end result of the cleaning is not non-toxic. The lead does not magically go away... nor the other compounds which are in the residue. However, that stuff does sound interesting & I will probably give it a try. Thanks for the heads up.

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I looked at the Fire Clean demo. The guy said that the AR bolt would require scraping. That tells me the product doesn't do anything special. If it can't even clean a bolt on an AR without scraping. how is it going to tackle the carbon and lead in a rimfire can?

I appreciate the replies. Gemtech is out. Going with the Huntertown Guardian 22 with the stainless baffles. Probably won't actually have it in my grubby paws until next year! All paperwork in done and enroute to Atlanta ATF office...now just gotta wait until my dealer says the paperwork is back.

I do have a habit of getting bit by these "bugs". I know a trust would be the way to go for multiple purchases, but for now I went the individual route.

It sure is a lot of circus hoop jumping for a metal tube...

I just came in from bean field damage control, got 875 rds through the element. I'll see if I can do some pic's on clean up. AR bolt doesn't if applied before, shooting. I clean with a Q-tip and air hose only!!! No soaking overnight, scraping.

I have 4 .22 cans, all user serviceable except my first AAC Pilot. The Huntertown is a great can for the price!!!! i use it mostly on pistols as is my 'variable host' can. the others are all dedicated to certain guns. you will like it a lot.

now the wait begins!!

UPDATE: Going with the Kestrel 5.56. That way I can use the tube on both my 15-22 and my Sig M400. It's a good thing my dealer talked me into the Kestrel...

The dealer-to-dealer transfer is in the works now. Looks like 1-3months, so if I'm lucky my dealer will be calling me to come pay for the thing before Halloween!

THEN my wait starts. My form 4 processing is looking to be about an 8 month wait!

I should have that can in my grubby booger-pickers about this time next year.

With this much of a hassel I guess it's wise to pick one can that can serve more calibers...

You'll have a lot more fun if you'll file a Form 1 and cut that barrel down to ~4.5". Basically anything you shoot will stay subsonic.

Nobody buys just one can. For the weight, you'd be a lot happier with a rimfire can for this application. Use the Kestrel (until it blows up on you...or you need to contact their customer service dept) on other rifles.

I posted this in another thread, but this here is what standard velocity ammo sounds like with a 4.5" 15-22 and a Spectre II.

Krestel 5.56-- Nice can, but....

A 20oz can is a lot to hang off the muzzle for long shooting sessions with a AR .22... a whopping 3-4 times the weight of a typical rimfire can. And at 1.5in in diameter it can't be used with sights on rimfire pistols and the weight makes it about useless for a rimfire handgun anyway. When I was looking for a rimfire can buying a can that could handle centerfire sounded appealing at first, but the more I considered it the less I liked the idea because while it did accommodate centerfire I was compromising everything good about a rimfire can. Just didn't make sense for me. On the other hand, if the overriding purpose was for centerfire that's different.

IMO, a good multipurpose centerfire can is a 30cal titanium. That will accommodate my .308 and 5.56 and others.

BigWaylon...

PLEASE stop posting videos like that...my addiction is bad enough and I haven't even got the can yet!

As far as this Form 1 thing goes, can you go into more detail?

Chattanooga Phil:

I really want a rimfire can - but getting one that would do both sounded appealing to me for the simple fact that this buying process is sooooooo excruciating. Now...In all honestly (at least right now) I have no interest in suppressing my M400, because I'll still have the sonic bullet "crack"...really all I care about is suppressing my 15-22. Now...I may get bit by the can bug again later (especially if people keep showing me videos like the one above) but as far as a good, light rimfire only can, what do you think about the Guardian 22 I was going to get originally?

ALSO - another dealer near me has a Gemtech G5-22 in stock now. What about the Gemtech vs. the Huntertown Guardian?

You gents lay it on me cause I know squat about cans...

Are you buying as an individual? Or using a trust/corp?

Form 1 is what you file to make an NFA item (not manufacture), while a Form 4 is what you file to buy an already made item.

If you use a trust/corp, you can file online without needing photos, fingerprints and CLEO sig. Recent approvals are running ~40 days using EForms. The trust route is much less excruciating. You can eFile a Form 1 in less than 10 minute. I can give you step-by-step instructions that will take longer to read than it takes to submit.

Personally...I wouldn't buy a Huntertown Arms suppressor, regardless of model, no matter the price. I'd be more likely to buy Gemtech than HTA, but they'd be way down the list. I like the Silencerco line of products, and their customer service is phenomenal. The new Surefire Ryder is also a very nice rimfire can.

If it was my money, I'd buy a SiCo Spectre II like the one in my video. I like it so much I bought a second one. And then followed that up with a Warlock II which is basically the same can but aluminum so it weighs 3oz vs the 6.8oz of the Spectre II.

If that is the case, then I would dismiss the idea of the centerfire dual purpose can and focus on rimfire.

There are lots of great cans and a sane person can go nuts looking at all of them. I have a Silencerco Sparrow. It is very popular. I would also look at a Silencerco SprectreII (used to be SWR). Do some research on those two. They are both well designed cans built to be easily taken apart and with materials that will last. The Sparrow is a bit more compact but has FRP on a pistol. The SpectreII is an inch longer but has little FRP.

Whatever you do, don't buy a can based on price. Do your research and buy the can that you think will perform best for your needs regardless of price. It's a lifetime purchase. Don't let $100-$200 difference make you compromise on what you want.

In general, here are items to consider

Easily taken apart
Baffle material
Length and diameter
FRP

Don't get hung up on db reduction. Any rimfire can you get will be quiet enough.

Ok...here it is...

In an effort to avoid information overload, I have decided to go with the Silencerco Spectre. I also found out looking at their site that a local indoor range I've been going to for years is a Silencerco dealer! I am going to call them Monday and see if they have one in stock...that will lessen the wait time. If they don't, oh well...I've gone this long without one so I think I can wait an extra 1-3 months.

I am buying this one as an individual...I need to look into the trust thing for future purchases...

Buying local is good, buying local from a place with a range is even better.

I don't think you'll regret the decision to go with the Spectre II at all.

I'd seriously consider looking into a trust. If you set one up later, you'd have to pay $200 for each item to transfer them into the trust on another Form 4. That's not necessary...you can keep them as an individual, just letting you know.

You could get a trust set up a lot faster (at least for most people) than it would take to get CLEO sig, prints and photos.

To add to your information overload...here's a link to the how-to I did on a Form 1 in EForms: Visual Guide: How to fill out a Form 1 using EFORMS (you can bookmark it and read it later if your brain needs a rest)

Guaranteed it'll take you longer to read through it the first time than it will to actually fill out the form online.

and for the record...here are a couple options to set up a trust:

Do It Yourself Documents ($34.95, or $54.95 if you want a paralegal to do it)
$199Trust.com (it's actually only $99)
Silencer Shop ($129.95)

Quicken Willmaker Plus Trustmaker, got it for $20 on Amazon and it has passed muster through a lawyer friend that has looked it over and my past 4 stamps.
plus it has a lot of other legal stuff that may be useful to you like power of attorneys, living wills, etc.

Yeah... well... that's how it starts. And for a couple range trips a suppressed 15-22 will be good enough... then starts the thinking... how much fun a suppressed pistol would be... bolt action... maybe a couple rimfire cans would be nice... it never ends. Good luck.

here's mine

Buckmark

Stamps is crack!

Whomever said "everything in moderation" was never into guns!

Decided to "Form 1" the M&P 15-22. I'm gonna submit the Form 1 at the same time I submit the Form 4. Gonna SBR the 15-22 so it looks "tactikewl"! I am going to have the barrel cut down and threaded so the can fits up against the front of the forend, with maybe a 1/16" gap for the can to heat up without melting the front of the forend...thoughts?

only problem is the wait!

After all is done, and MagPul hardware added, gonna post pics - probably be 8 months or so!

If you cut the barrel down to 4.5in you can shoot cheap HV bulk pack subsonic. Big economic benefit and much easier to find HV in a tight market than being stuck having to find subsonic ammo. Several guys here cut them down to that length. Looks sharp too.

This!

If you're going to cut it short, cut it short! And use the Silencerco o-ring engagement specs for the Spectre II. Other places may do it, but as an example ADCO will cut it down for $65 and no extre charge for it to be milled like mine.



Don't worry about it butting up against the end if the rail. Ditch the end cap and the Spectre II fits inside the rail. 22LR isn't going to heat the barrel or can up enough to worry about it.

The rest of my pics are in here.

Here's what I understand about Form 1:

1) I can submit it and wait to get it back, then do whatever the heck I want with the barrel...assemble it and put a flash hider or something on it until I get permission to take possession of the suppressor when Form 4 gets back to dealer.

-or-

2) I can send the barrel off to get cut down now, before the Form 1 is processed (or while it's being processed), and I can legally get the barrel back, but I can NOT assemble the upper and lower into a complete rifle until the Form 1 comes back

If I'm right, what's the best course of action of the two?

Oh and my dealer knows a guy who will engrave the lower for $35...

Beings ammo is in the short side, the short barrel will shoot any, ammo with the suppressor and still be quite.

I would sent it off after stamp approval, for two reasons:

1. You can keep shooting it between now and when F1 is approved.
2. Since the upper won't fit on a normal AR lower, you can't use it as a pistol or on another registered lower, so you're left with a pile of parts that the only possible firearm to assemble in an unregistered SBR. Just not worth it.

ADCO turned mine around in a week, door-to-door.

Also...does "the guy" know the lower is polymer? A lot if them won't touch the polymer lowers. I did mine with a Dremel. Doesn't matter how pretty it is, accuracy isn't affected. I paid for all my aluminum lowers to be engraved, but the 15-22 was $0.

I have a Dremel tool and a reasonably steady hand, so I will engrave it myself...on Form 1 does whatever you ask to engrave have to follow any certain format?

Also gonna wait until Form 1 gets approved, besides the Form 4 is gonna take a while, so I ain't in any hurry...

You have to engrave the full trust name and the city, state where the firearm is made. That doesn't necessarily have to be your home or work address. It's where you attach the upper to the lower for the first time. For instance, if you live in Hendersonville, but would rather engrave Arden to make it easier, just drive over for final assembly.

The most common areas to engrave are:
Side of magwell
Right side above trigger pins
Front of magwell
Around trigger hole (usually only with a removable trigger guard)

It has to be conspicuously placed, so you can't hide it anywhere that can't be seen when rifle is assembled.

My suggestion is the front of the magwell, as it's less visible. Here's my 3rd-grade-looking example:



BTW...if your F1 comes back as fast as they're currently being approved (~35 days, assuming you eFiled), I can loan you a fake suppressor that's almost the exact 1"x6" dimensions of the Spectre II, and within ~.3oz of weighing the same. That'll let you get it set up like you want, and shoot unsuppressed safely, assuming you're going to have the Spectre II inside the rail. I had 3 of them custom made just for that reason. (2 SBRs and 1 to rotate between handguns).