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out of battery detonation (shards of brass)
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Birdhunter6
Member
Out of battery detonation.
Definite failure of internal safeties, so, NO it shouldn't.
Definite failure of internal safeties, so, NO it shouldn't.
Scharfschuetzer
Member
What rifle did that? The rimmed case suggests a lever gun, but there are semi-autos out there using rimmed cases.
Perhaps the firing pin was stuck forward due to fouling or rust. I'd have your friend clean inside the bolt and then test fire in a safe place.
Perhaps the firing pin was stuck forward due to fouling or rust. I'd have your friend clean inside the bolt and then test fire in a safe place.
Hello, thanks for naming the situation, now I see many threads on "Out of battery detonation"... Vinny
Of course it was a SW 15-22, fairly new, both his and mine are about a year old.
With mine I have had two or three other instances of this BUT never a blown apart casing so I figured nothing drastic was happening / possible. Mine is a right-handed gun but I shoot lefty. When this happens with my gun there is a larger than normal explosion, more smoke and I felt some very small burning particles hit me (not brass in my failures). After failure, when I look there are two spent casings in the gun (one in the barrel). Only yesterday did my friends casing explode and a piece of it found my leg, luckily just my calf
Vinny
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Jon651
Member
SHOULD a rifle fire with an open bolt? No, it should not.
WILL it fire with an open bolt? Based on the minimal information I can only guess - and my guess would be that this was either a hang-fire where your friend opened the bolt by hand and the round cooked off as it was ejected from the chamber or a very hotly loaded round that blew apart upon normal firing and the pieces were ejected (or blew out of) the chamber as the bolt cycled.
Since a 15-22 uses 22LR rimfire ammo, there is also a possibility that the round either failed to ignite normally or he didn't fire the round, cycled the bolt by hand, and the ejector caused it to ignite as it cycled the still-good round out of the chamber.
My last guess would be there was an obstruction in the barrel just past the chamber and when the round was fired the overpressure from the blocked round blew the casing apart and out the ejection port as the bolt cycled.
Again - just my guess.
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My friend said it was a normal trigger pull... The exploded case remained in the barrel BUT he had to push it out (nothing but the exploded case came out). This was Federal ammo, just one hot round in the box? Any "guesses" on my other reports (today 6:42 am)?
thanks
Vinny
Jon651
Member
Vinny - So the sequence of events was:
1. Normal trigger pull,
2. Possibly stronger than normal impulse,
3. The bolt cycles open but does not eject the entire case, and
4. As the bolt cycles a small piece of the casing is ejected and hits your leg.
If this is correct then I'm thinking either barrel obstruction or overly hot load - either would over-pressurize the chamber and may damage the case causing a blow-out. My only other thought would be a very thin (way out of spec) or damaged/split case that couldn't hold standard pressure and burst.
1. Normal trigger pull,
2. Possibly stronger than normal impulse,
3. The bolt cycles open but does not eject the entire case, and
4. As the bolt cycles a small piece of the casing is ejected and hits your leg.
If this is correct then I'm thinking either barrel obstruction or overly hot load - either would over-pressurize the chamber and may damage the case causing a blow-out. My only other thought would be a very thin (way out of spec) or damaged/split case that couldn't hold standard pressure and burst.
mckenney99
Member
The S&W M&P 15-22 has a well known history for "Out of Battery" firing. It is also very common for the extractor to be blown out of the bolt when the unsupported base of the case blows out (hence the case being left in the chamber). I lost count of the number of the M&P 15-22's we sold that had to be sent back for repair under the warranty. While S&W has continually claimed that "it can't happen", they have always repaired the M&P 15-22's sent back for examination and repair.
Just do a Google search for S&W M&P 15-22's banned from Appleseed Shoots and you'll see the issue is not a isolated incident.
Just do a Google search for S&W M&P 15-22's banned from Appleseed Shoots and you'll see the issue is not a isolated incident.
Scharfschuetzer
Member
Thanks for the update on the rifle type and ammo.
It is certainly an interesting, but unwelcome situation. I have never seen that happen, even when my rimfire semi-autos have been fired extensively.
It is certainly an interesting, but unwelcome situation. I have never seen that happen, even when my rimfire semi-autos have been fired extensively.
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I actually had this happen to me several years ago. The extractor was blown out of the rifle when mine happened. My arm was peppered with brass, but no serious damage to my person. S&W is slow to answer emails. You need to call them. They'll email you a shipping label to return the gun to them. They will repair any damage and return it in a couple of weeks or so. This may have been caused by an overcharged round or it could just be one of those things that shouldn't happen but some how did. I was shooting CCI Stingers (hotter than normal 22LR ammo) at the time mine blew out.
Alk8944
US Veteran
It would have been helpful to mention the rifle was a .22 in the original post. In several responses it was obvious this was not understood from the photo.
Could have been an out-of-battery event, slam-fire, a stuck firing pin, or simply a case failure. All are possible and do happen with .22s.
Could have been an out-of-battery event, slam-fire, a stuck firing pin, or simply a case failure. All are possible and do happen with .22s.
I am sorry BUT I found this exact forum "Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 Dedicated to the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22" to start the conversation... next time I will... Vinny
Welcome to the Forum from S-C Pennsylvania.
I hope the issue is adequately addressed by S&W.
Please let us know how your friend makes out with his dealings with S&W. They take care of the vast majority of issues given a bit of time to do so.
I hope the issue is adequately addressed by S&W.
Please let us know how your friend makes out with his dealings with S&W. They take care of the vast majority of issues given a bit of time to do so.
Kp321
Member
Was the rifle in question a Performance Center edition? I’m have observed more OOB discharges on the PC guns, due the the tighter chamber I guess. PC rifles and Remington ammo seem to be a recipe for disaster.
Jon651
Member
While size does account some for the fact that .22LR ammo is relatively inexpensive, lower quality is also a factor...
tndrfttom
Member
A year or two ago S&W put out a safety alert on M&P 15-22 bolts that were out of spec. On request, they would send a gauge for owners to check the bolt face. I think you can go to the Smith & Wesson web site you can find the info in the Safety Alert/Recall notices.
Kp321
Member
The recall was specifically for a shallow recess on the bolt face, possibly causing a slam fire. The OP indicated that this problem occurred when the trigger was pulled, not a slam fire. Good idea to gauge the bolt anyway, S&W will send the gauge so you can do it yourself.
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