Just got my MP9c yesterday and went shot it and today i went and laid away some crimson trace sites does anyone have them and if so how do you like them i got a fairly good deal i think 200 new well and thats letting me lay away hope it dont take me to long to get them lol

That is a killer deal on a CTC set! I purchased my M&P with CTC already installed and while I'm a firm believer in CTC lasers in general, the laser didn't really fit my hand....In a number of ways....I couldn't activate the laser all the time, and managed to turn it off or on (via master switch) on occasion if using a real strong grip.

On top of that, it didn't fit my hand real well. I tried the CTC on the full-size M&P and really liked it, so I wanted it on my compact. It felt completely different and I didn't like it at all. I felt like I couldn't get a high enough grip around my web/tang area, and combined with the unreliability of the activation/disablement of the laser, I just wasn't happy.

I tried to make it work for several months, but tonight I broke down and decided to try the regular grips. I tried the large and it felt similar to the CTC grips...I was thinking "ok...I'll live with the issues and train around them"...Then I tried the medium grips. Game over. Re-start.

The medium grips felt sooooo much better! "My" pistol finally felt as good as the others I've tried. So I think I might be putting some CTC grips up for sale.

At the same time, I think it's funny I like the large grips best on the full-size M&P while the medium feels perfect with the compact.

I don't mean to dissuade you from CTC grips, as I really like them, but this particular version doesn't fit "my" hand...It might work great with your hands, and if so, CTC's are the best!

i hope i use the large grip on my compact anyway just hope i dont have any activation prob

i have two, one on m&p 40c and the other on a glock 27, both have worked flawless for the three years i have had them

I have one on my M&P9c and Love it! I also have one on my full size XD45 and love it there as well. I don't see why anyone would not like a red dot on your target. Only thing to remember, is a laser points both ways in a fight.

Re:

>>I don't see why anyone would not like a red dot on your target<<

I can see why. I have red lasers and in low light they are great, but in any kind of light, a green laser is far superior in my opinion. Crimson trace might be thinking along the same lines, although their name sort of makes it odd for the transition--they are manufacturing green lasers for tactical rifles now.

I like green Truglo TFO's also--Tritium Fiber Optic gun sites. Green is the most easily identified (quick to pick up on) color in the spectrum range.

I can use my green laser outdoors at high noon on a cloudless day when my red laser would be all but useless. I love the Veridian C5L on my S&W M&P 40 C and they are rolling out Tacloc level two holsters for under $50--the really nice one for the M&P 40c should be out by Christmas.

For my Glock 27--or any gun that doesn't have a tactical rail, the Crimson Trace is a great product--I'm not knocking them--for red--they're great--for green, Veridian, in my opinion, has the most experience, best product and a fair price. You can pay less, but green lasers are more complex, generate more heat and use batteries faster--I would not trust a new company or a Chinese knock off in this case. I paid well under $300 for a great green laser WITH a bright tactical light --all in one subcompact, durable unit that has multiple, easy to control settings, such as strobe, steady, pulse--one touch set and more.

Like a laser, the tactical light makes you a more easily identifiable target, but if you're pointing that gun at someone anyway, I'd like to think you're ready to use it on very short notice if needed and still have good peripheral vision.

Anybody looking at you when that tactical light's on--especially in strobe mode and if it's over 100+ lumens, will have trouble focusing--it's very disorienting and if they try to fix and focus, it'll have them seeing spots. It can actually induce a headache pretty easily if you look at it.

I am not familiar with the Veridian lasers, I have seen them advertised, but have never seen one in person. I see that some of the mount in place of the rear sight though, and that concerns me. How is the laser activated? Do you have to turn it on and then point the gun or is it on all the time?

The Crimson Trace lasers that I have could surely be brighter during the day, BUT during the day, I don't need it. I have my sights on the gun.

I have the lasers for low light situations where I cannot see the sights. When I pull the weapon and point it, the crimson trace lights up the target with no effort or extra steps.

This is exactly how it looks on my M&P 40c.


Viridian C5L Gun Laser Sights | Viridian Green Laser Gun Sights


If you're interested, shop around--opticsplanet.com amazon.com and there are some others. If you're police or military, some places offer discounts--I think I paid $276 w/o any police or military discount--optics planet must have liked me on the phone. If you do order, get a few extra batteries when you order--they don't use the batteries up nearly as quickly as I thought, but it's nice to have an extra one or two in your gun carry case and on-line's much cheaper than Walmart and you might as well get it included in the initial shipping cost.

I think it looks quite neat and tidy mounted on all my guns--especially on the M&Ps and Xd--XDm's--from a distance, it looks like it was 'bulit in' at the factory on my M&P 40c--looks a lot like my S&W Bodyguard 380, speaking of which, which is my daily carry gun when I am traveling light, which is most of the time.

My Glock 27 (40 caliber) is a little smaller than the S&W M&P 40c and while I like both, for me--they're a bit too large for most of my pockets and even for waist carry when getting in and out of the car.

If I am going for a long walk in town or in the park, I'll sometimes carry the M&P 40c by night or the Glock by day in the small of my back--they're great for that.

One fellow was saying the M&P 40c was much more effective for personal defense than the BG 380 and while I can't argue that it it's not more effective, with the great improvements in ammo, if you look at the ballistic studies on ballistic gelatin, animal cadavers etc., using ammo such as the Hornady Critical Defense and Corbon Power Ball ammo, it might well convince you that the 380 is more than adequate. It generally will penetrate 10 inches and the opening it creates is quite wide. It's not like the old days, where a 380 might just irritate an atacker, like a 25 or 32 caliber load might. That BG380 really disappears in a pocket nicely, but not so much as you can't draw it quicky. Personally, I like the fairly stiff trigger--if somehow my keys get into my pocket holster, I won't blow my fool leg off! The safety is affirmative--with a good 'click', yet is super fast to switch on or off. Some might say it's sacrilegious, but I like the ambidetrous safety on my M&P 40c too--you don't HAVE to use it and on the 40c, you can completely remove it in a few minutes--consider it a 'value added option' you can use or keep in the case.

Now if only they'd put a green laser, instead of red on the BG380!

As you can see, the Veridian C5L doesn't even extend beyond the muzzle of the 40c--I haven't seen it extending beyond the muzzle on the smallest Springfield XD--Xdm. It's nice, because if it's directly below or better yet as with my full size pistols, a little ways back from the muzzle, you don't have much, if any trouble with excess gunpowder residue having to be cleaned off.

The upcoming tacloc security level two holster accomodates the gun with the laser/light mounted, Tacloc makes good stuff that's very adjustable and stays as you adjusted it.

I can switch out the laser/tactical light from one gun, such as my full size Xdm 45ACP to my M&P 40c--really any gun with a tactical rail in seconds, although you might need to 'dial in' the accuracy a bit with the two mini allen wrenches they provide. The C5l comes nicely packaged--I am very impressed with Veridian and they're USA owned and operated. I asked 'why only a one year warannty?' and they said unless it was obviously abused, they would stand behind their product indefinitely.

As mentioned earlier, some guns, such as the nice little Glock 27, don't have tactical rails, so other laser options, such as the Crimson Trace are basically the way you have to go--can't knock CT--they set the standard for red lasers pretty much, but I have a hunch that as with tactical rifles, they'll eventually offer green lasers for handguns, for a bit more money.

Even some makers of classic guns, such as the 1911, are now including tactical rails. I'm not a big Taurus fan, but their 1911 in 45 caliber, is pretty nice--it's a Colt clone, but WITH a tac rail and the build quality on that particular gun is pretty darn good for a very good price. Can't have em all--but as a collector, I think a 1911 belongs in my collection and Taurus's 1911 has the features--beavertail, etc. that you want/need most, it looks pretty fine in stainless and has excellent build tolerances--quite similar to Colt's--for a whole lot less. I wouldn't buy a lot of Taurus products, but that's one I wouldn't mind owning--I enjoy shoooting it and have heard nothing but good on it from the folks out on the range.

As always, I say--that'll be my LAST gun, but then something like this comes along--hahaha...


S&W M&P15 Sport 5.56mm 16" Black 30-round: Condition: New in Box Overview: Features Adj ...
OUR PRICE $662.00 Jetguns.com

DJBiker,

You asked, but I forgot to mention that to turn the Veridian Laser or Laser Tactical light combo, all you do is lightly touch either the button on the left or right side--its the button/s you see right in front of the trigger. To change a setting, such as the intensity of the light, to strobe or constant or to scroll through all the settings, you hold both buttons at the same time.

Then everytime you push a button, right or left side, it automatically goes back to the setting you left it on. The buttons being right in front of the trigger seems like a very natural, 'ergonomic' fit and while they just require a very fast, light touch, they are slightly recessed so the they don't inadvertently go off and if your hands are cold or wet, you can feel the lttle ridge around the soft rubber buttons.

Their home website is pretty high tech and impressive--if a little 'over the top' for my taste, but it is a pretty amazing product, especially given its small size. It definitely gets noticed at the range. At night from my fenced back yard, people later told me--what was that intense green ray of light that was coming out of your yard last night?--Almost an Obi Wan Kenobi kind of effect in the dark--it literally goes out for miles and you DON'T want to use it if there are aircraft anywhere near.

I have had a CT laser on my 9c for the past 5 years and I am completely satisfied with it. I am always a sucker for new gun stuff, so I was interested in the new Viridian C5L product until I read the instructions. Just too many settings and the buttons look like they would be impossible to use while wearing gloves. I don't want to be fumbling with settings if ever in a shooting situation, plus it looks like it requires that you always must have two hands on the gun to activate both buttons. For now I'll just stick with what works for me, my CT laser.

Wearing gloves while shooting is always adding a challenge and there's no denying that the CT's "switch" if you can even call it that, is as simple as you can get----you simply squeeze the grip and its on. So it can be turned on or off----two "functions". To choose which of the multiple settings you want with the Verdian C5L, you, using your thumb and index finger in the basic "pincer grip" basically scroll through the settings until you find the one you like. Then you can "set it and forget it"---every time after, whether you touch the button on the left or right side, it always goes right back to that setting. I have had friends set and reset it without any verbal or written instructions whatsoever. The buttons are slightly recessed to allow a tactlile sensation and prevent accidental on and off and they are positioned close enough so that once used, you probably almost instinctually know they are right there. No, it's not as simple as the CTs setup but it does more too. Unless you are wearing really thick gloves, I can't see any real possible issues.

They put a lot of information in the manual, which at first can seem daunting. I personally have a strong dislike to buying something high tech and finding a manual that is thick or complex and thinking--'Geeze--I have to carry THIS with me always to operate this??" Not the case here though--it's not too thick and really, especially after you've played with it a couple times--or if you're a young kid (not me) raised on 'high tech'--it's pretty instinctual to use and swap out settings, really.

The only thing I dislike more than long, wordy manuals is things like pricey new cameras and a lot of smart phones--that don't even COME with a manual--they come with a CDROM, or with my Droid X phone--a ultra mini manual that tells you less than 1% of what you might want or need to know--but tells you to "go on-line" to learn all but the most basic stuff. Going online and using a CDROM isn't too practical out in the field!

That's good to know. It would be nice to be able to shoot with one before buying. What battery is required, and what's the estimated run time? I change my CT batteries every 6 months, but they are still working fine. I just use them in something else. How far can you see the green dot on a sunny day? The red CT dot gets hard to see past 15 yards on a bright, sunny day. Then I just use my XS Big Dot front sight.

Some say they can see the CT farther than 15 yards out in day light. Some say they can see the Veridian green laser at over 100 yards in day light. I have some real challenges seeing red lasers that far outdoors on bright, full sunshine south Georgia days and a lot easier a time seeing green lasers. With either, even a few clouds in the sky makes a difference, allowing easier visibility.

The reality is that when you're looking for a small laser dot, red or green, from a distance, you will have to obviously have your eyes aligned with the barrel along fixed sights, if you are much beyond 40 feet or so. Even then, the farther out it is during the day, the more challenging it will be to pick up on that little dot when it's super bright outside. After all, these are limited by law (for civilians), to <5 mW of brightness/power.

For me, I'd say maybe 100 yards in bright sunshine with the green. What might be a better, certainly more difficult question is 'would you be better able to get off an accurate shot from said (long or short) distance faster using good manual sights, or taking the time to activate, sight, level off, then fix and follow a laser line?' Is it quicker, or more accurate and/or convenient?

Some guys claim they can effectively use a laser a lot further out than me, but I wear TRIfocal eyeglasses! I know for sure that I have been able to shoot individual coconuts out of trees on full sun, Florida Key's days, from I'd guess about about 60--75 yards out and still spot the green dot on the green palm leaves--but I know exactly what I'm looking for and where.

From long distances, it is not a super fast, 'magic bullet' solution in ultra bright, sunny conditions, because unless it's beginning low light conditions, such as dusk and dawn, you're not going to see a 'beam of light' straight from your gun to the target with a Veridian, or any other civilian laser, regardless of color. At the very start of when the sunlight begins to raise up or diminish, way before any cars would turn their head lights on, the green spectrum seems exponentially brighter than the red, and I have an Insight red laser and have tested both, with fresh batteries and also CT's under more informal conditions.

That said, in convention centers and gymnasiums when I have been to gun shows, there has never been anyone who couldn't see the green dot when looking from where my gun was, to the furthest reaches of a pro sized stadium, with the lights inside full on.

Battery life? Green uses batteries faster than red for sure. This is from Veridian, but they claim four hours continuous with the laser on steady stream and seven hours with it on pulse, and with the laser on continous and the tactical light at it's brightest, both on together, 60 minutes. I think that's about right and I rarely have mine on for even a minute--it doesn't take me very long to empty a couple of clips.

I buy six or a dozen 3 volt lithium CR2 size batteries at a time (the C5L uses one) on-line, as they're much less expensive and I tend to replace batteries before I even notice any dimness.

The instructions for how to use the C5L and how to operate it and go to any of the avaiable six 'user modes' fills about two and half, 3 by 5 inch pages of normal size print font in the manual and that also includes some info on further customization, if you want to go into 'deep programming mode' for further customization--to be honest, I haven't gotten 'into it' that much, but the few times I was fiddling with the thing mindlessly and lost my orginal settings, I was able to get them back in a a few minutes at the most.

I have always been a rather brain addled father on Christmas mornings--although maybe I'm a genious, because I was usually able to put my kids toys together and have a couple parts left over and they still worked! That said, I have gone to the shooting range with out my manual or any tools and swapped out my C5L from gun to gun w/o any problem. There are two extra rail mounts though--S&W's M&P share the same small rail attachment set up, Glock and Taurus a different little rail attachment--all can be put on and off in a minute, using a penny or a dime as a tool. For really 'zeroing in', there's a couple allen wrenches that come in the C5L box, which is pretty slickly packed and is in a box about three by five inches in size and just under a couple inches deep--fits in most gear bags.

To be honest again, I have switched the laser from gun to gun and noticed the alignment wasn't what it was on the previous gun and rather than go back and fine tune with the two allen wrenches, I made a mental note along the lines of 'two inches left--one inch down, from 25 yards' and just carried on. At any distance, the laser's going to be a straight line to whatever you're pointing at and the further out the target and considering what gun you're shooting, you'll have to make mental adjustments for what I prefer to call 'droppage' any way.

Some people think lasers are 'gimmicky' and that a true 'purist' would never consider having one on their gun. I don't recall seeing anyone shooting Les Baers or Wilson Combats with lasers attached. I don't think too many guys big into 1911 ACP pistols are into them.

I sometimes think having Truglo TFO's AND a laser and tactical light--although they all look neatly integrated--although not looking 'pimped out' or 'Star wars'--is still a bit much--maybe like three axles on a Toyota Camry, but even the cops and US Army Rangers I shoot with --as hard core as you're going to find, typically give me thumbs up.

I believe in redundancies and back ups. When it comes to power versus manual tools, I have power and manual drills, saws--pretty much every tool--in my 'hurricane kit'. I can make fire in a rainstorm w/o matches. I back up data on external hard drives and have hard copies in safe boxes. I want to be ready when the electricity goes out--with extra propane, food, liquid 'currency', food and bullets.

That said, my wife--who really shoots very little, but shoots very accurately, (gosh darn her!) totally refuses to use a laser and shoots as well with my Glock 17 9mm, with it's standard, non night Glock sites as I do with a laser and/or Truglos...

Gloves? When it's cold or worse yet, cold and wet, I typically cut the finger tips out of my gloves when shooting. Nonetheless, any gun, especially if you're fiddling with a laser, can be a challenge to get off shots when out on the water surrounded by alligators, out on a snowmobile and surrounded by polar bears, or dealing with a moose in rut!--lol

I recently bought a model 34 with a CT grip. I sold the 34 for what I paid for it and kept the CT grip and put it on my mod 60 that I bought in 1970. I like it and so does my cat.

Mr. Sherrill,

That is one great, classic 'old school" revolver! I don't think I've ever heard a gun that size that is that loud--those 357 rounds really are something! If you (or your cat) ever get tired of it, let me know! Those old S&W's still rule...

im not downing the Viririan but how could you beat picking up your weapon and the laser coming on with no thinking about hitting a button

im not downing the Viririan but how could you beat picking up your weapon and the laser coming on with no thinking about hitting a button

Jdizzel1209,

Hey, I can't deny that the CT is a great, innovative product. Like a revolver, a case could be made that one of the things that makes it great IS it's simplicity--you squeeze the gun's handle quite naturally and it automatically goes on. Let go and it goes off. Simply and and as fast as you can grab it.

No, for what it does, it doesn't get any better, I admit. I do wish it was green though.

Green is more complex to produce, uses more energy and produces more heat. I am sure that on the tactical rifles that CT is putting programable green laser/tactical light set ups on, that they're doing it right

For $649.00 retail, they should. Look at the product and it's not too hard an argument to justify that retail price. If you care, here's a look::

MVF-515 GREEN Laser + Light Combo :: Crimson Trace

If you look at price and compare it to quality, separate 'high end' green lasers and tactical lights, realizing this is made with a rock-solid 6061-T6 aircraft aluminum hard-anodized tang as the foundation of the rifle's foregrip--that it INCLUDES the foregrip, you might conclude this is one serious product.

The tactical light puts out a whopping 150 to 200 lumens. That ought to blind the damn devil himself.

Plus CT backs it with a three year warranty--Veridian only offers a one year, although they will tell you on the phone they'll 'take care of any legitimate issues' well beyond that one year.

Compared to CT's pistol grip product, the Veridian on the other hand --errr-- 'in front of the trigger', I should say--doesn't have as elegantly simple a 'switch' set up--if you even want to call the CT's a 'switch'.

With the Veridian, you have to reach ever so slightly forward with your index finger, in front of the trigger (actually a bit toward the side) and give the button/s--either the left or right, a light touch.

While it has over half a dozen settings, I think what most people, (myself included) do, is set it up so every time you touch the left or right button, it goes back to the setting you like. For me, it's a very bright, disorienting strobe light and a continuous green laser that produces a larger dot than the CT or Insight's red laser.

All these lasers, including the new green CT, are limited to 5 mW power.

In order to adjust the Veridian to a different setting, you have to hold both buttons at the same time, which means it's very unlikely that you might 'accidently' knock it out of the preset.

Nope--it's not as simple a set up as the CT pistol laser by a long shot, but it does a lot more, and 'more' rarely comes simple.

That said, if CT made GREEN lasers for hand guns, especially for revolvers, I'd be all over them. I think it's just a matter of time before they do just that.

The CT with a quality revolver--now THAT's matching simple with simple--no slide to pull back, no buttons--just pull, point and shoot. Like somebody once said 'It's old, but it's good".....

While I can certainly see a need for a more powerful laser for daylight use, I think the Veridian model with the button you have to push to activate the laser would be a problem.

Just about any time you have to pull your weapon for a self defense situation, you don't have time to push anything other than the trigger. Some even argue that you are better to carry without a round in the chamber, and that's just silly. Hold on a minute bad guy while I rack this thing to load a round. I mean get real.

I carry for self defense only. I only shoot at targets as training for self defense. I am an insurance investigator and handle shooting scenes at times. I have never seen a self defense situation that ended well for the victim where they had time to do anything but shoot.

A green laser that is more visible would be welcomed, no doubt, but for now, the CT has the bull by the horns with point and click activation of the laser. Target aquisition is immediate and without any additional thought or action on my part. Point the weapon and the laser is on. Now give me a green, high power laser with that as standard function, and I am all in.

I have 5 CT's (M&P 45, S&W 38, Glock 33, 36 & 19) Laser Max on a S&W 349PD. I prefer the CT. Ease of operation is the
main reason. Battery life is another. The CT for M&P pistols
is the same as the medium insert. I have small hands and
would prefer it if CT made sizes but the adjustment wasn't
a problem. And yes, $200 is a great deal.
Dano

__________________
70 yr old TET Survivor: 68-69

This is a pretty hot deal, IMO. I looked at a few other sites and they seem to have this gun in the upper $600 to as high as $768--IF they have it in stock at all. W/O the CT--this gun is $39--so you're getting the CT's factory installed for $144--as the price on this gun's usually $439--free delivery, no 3% uptick for C.C. use and no tax outside of Kentucky.

SMITH & WESSON INC S AND W M&P40 220071 40S&W 4.25 CT 15R M&P40 $583.00 Jetguns.com

Oh--I wish they had this in the M&P 40c!

FWIW one thing to consider with the CTC laser on the M&P is the kind of holster you are going to use as the laser's tip comes forward a bit and can interfere with some rigs.

That's true with most guns. One reason I prefer Leather.
A razor knife, some black shoe dye and you're in business.
I've had to alter nearly all my holsters for the Glocks as
well as the M&P 45.
Dano

__________________
70 yr old TET Survivor: 68-69