Striker Safety Failure
- Thread starter kodiakpb
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OpsMgr
US Veteran
That is ugly...
isaidme1
Member
First I have heard of one. Have you contacted Apex Tactical?
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kodiakpb
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Not yet, just happened today after I conducted a functions check upon completion of cleaning.
As stated earlier, this just might be a coincidence...and it might be my FP which is why I wanted opinions on the pic above. I don't have another M&P to compare it to.
If anyone has the capability to post a pic of their FP (same as my pic above)...I'll be able to determine if it's a FP problem or an Apex problem.
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Fastbolt
Member
What "failed"?
Can you push the striker forward past the safety plunger?
A suspected gun problem can't be diagnosed online, but for the purpose of discussion ...
To verify the striker safety is functioning properly, armorers perform this safety inspection test with an EMPTY field-stripped pistol:
With the slide off the frame and the barrel removed from the slide, with the slide upside down so you're looking down at the bottom of the slide ... reset the striker safety by pulling back on the striker, fully to the rear, and then slowly let the striker move forward (under its own spring tension).
Then, push the striker forward. (Don't touch the safety plunger.) The striker shouldn't move forward (past the safety plunger) and protrude from the breech face. If it does, the recommended correction is to replace the striker and then perform the same inspection with the new one (to confirm that it successfully passes the test).
If the striker safety passes that test, then push down on the striker safety plunger (as if the trigger bar's vertical extension were pushing "up" against it & its spring). Holding down on the safety plunger, now push the striker forward. It should now be able to move forward and protrude from the breech face.
The safety plunger should also have proper freedom of movement, normal travel and spring tension, too.
Normal wear on a pair of .45 strikers from my M&P 45. Both successfully passed the striker safety test in my gun.
Naturally, if you suspect a problem with your M&P, it's best to have it checked by an armorer (in person), the factory or an authorized service center. You don't want the safety plunger to fail to do its intended job, or the striker to get stuck in the forward position, etc.
Can you push the striker forward past the safety plunger?
A suspected gun problem can't be diagnosed online, but for the purpose of discussion ...
To verify the striker safety is functioning properly, armorers perform this safety inspection test with an EMPTY field-stripped pistol:
With the slide off the frame and the barrel removed from the slide, with the slide upside down so you're looking down at the bottom of the slide ... reset the striker safety by pulling back on the striker, fully to the rear, and then slowly let the striker move forward (under its own spring tension).
Then, push the striker forward. (Don't touch the safety plunger.) The striker shouldn't move forward (past the safety plunger) and protrude from the breech face. If it does, the recommended correction is to replace the striker and then perform the same inspection with the new one (to confirm that it successfully passes the test).
If the striker safety passes that test, then push down on the striker safety plunger (as if the trigger bar's vertical extension were pushing "up" against it & its spring). Holding down on the safety plunger, now push the striker forward. It should now be able to move forward and protrude from the breech face.
The safety plunger should also have proper freedom of movement, normal travel and spring tension, too.
Normal wear on a pair of .45 strikers from my M&P 45. Both successfully passed the striker safety test in my gun.
Naturally, if you suspect a problem with your M&P, it's best to have it checked by an armorer (in person), the factory or an authorized service center. You don't want the safety plunger to fail to do its intended job, or the striker to get stuck in the forward position, etc.
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kodiakpb
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What "failed"?
Normal wear on a pair of .45 strikers from my M&P 45.
Thanks for the pics. Here is a clearer pic of what I'm talking about. I don't have another weapon to compare it to.
With the slide off I can push the striker forward past the safety plunger.
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kodiakpb
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Fastbolt...thanks for the detailed procedure. Looks like you were typing after I replied. Yep...that's exactly what I did and it failed. If you look at the corner in that last pic you can see what appears to be excessive wear (when compared to yours). This weapon is only about 4-5 months old. Not sure how that would happen. The only thing I did was install the DCAEK. Everything is dress-right-dress, and installed correctly.
Fastbolt
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Sent you a PM.
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kodiakpb
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Thank you my friend...much appreciated.
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kodiakpb
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Here is an update:
First I would like to thank Fastbolt for taking his time to help me trouble shoot this issue.
Took the Apex plunger and plunger spring out and conducted a few tests. Keep in mind this weapon is only 4-5 months old and I am the original owner.
Striker Safety Test
There are no visible anomalies in the plunger channel.
1. With Apex plunger and spring = 100% failure.
2. With Apex plunger and stock spring = 50% failure
3. With Stock plunger and Apex spring = 50% failure but it wasn't as effortless as #1 and #2
4. With stock plunger and stock spring = PASS
Tried to get pics from different angles of the channel (striker is still in slide)
Pic of Apex plunger. These are the only marks I could find. It is consistent all the way around the plunger.
Here is the striker once again showing excessive wear around the shoulder.
I'd be interested to see if there are any others out there running the Apex plunger/spring combo who failed the striker safety test...or if its just me.
Where I sit now: I'm going to need a new striker, and I guess I'll contact Apex to see what they have to say about the plunger. Still baffled about the accelerated wear on the striker. Something caused it.
Edited to add #3 test above
First I would like to thank Fastbolt for taking his time to help me trouble shoot this issue.
Took the Apex plunger and plunger spring out and conducted a few tests. Keep in mind this weapon is only 4-5 months old and I am the original owner.
Striker Safety Test
There are no visible anomalies in the plunger channel.
1. With Apex plunger and spring = 100% failure.
2. With Apex plunger and stock spring = 50% failure
3. With Stock plunger and Apex spring = 50% failure but it wasn't as effortless as #1 and #2
4. With stock plunger and stock spring = PASS
Tried to get pics from different angles of the channel (striker is still in slide)
Pic of Apex plunger. These are the only marks I could find. It is consistent all the way around the plunger.
Here is the striker once again showing excessive wear around the shoulder.
I'd be interested to see if there are any others out there running the Apex plunger/spring combo who failed the striker safety test...or if its just me.
Where I sit now: I'm going to need a new striker, and I guess I'll contact Apex to see what they have to say about the plunger. Still baffled about the accelerated wear on the striker. Something caused it.
Edited to add #3 test above
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kodiakpb
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I'll be very interested to see what your findings are.
Just finished tearing 'em down for a look-see. Only two have the Apex DCAEK installed, others have some form of "work" performed on the firing system. I am happy to report that all pass the striker safety test Fastbolt describes above. Also, no sign of abnormal wear on the strikers or safety plungers. Certainly nothing like you've shown here. This goes for two full size .40s, one compact .40, and two .45 M&Ps. All of them well-used, the newest one a mid-sized .45 with the Apex kit that has +- 3200 rounds since kit was installed.
I hope you find out what was happening with your pistol and everything gets resolved in a positive manner. I'm glad you found the problem before something very bad happened.
I hope you find out what was happening with your pistol and everything gets resolved in a positive manner. I'm glad you found the problem before something very bad happened.
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kodiakpb
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Thank you my friend and thanks for the report.
southchatham
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Why blame the Apex safety plunger block. The striker does not contact the block unless the sear is tripped by a dropped gun or something ( is this wrong). So it's not as if the striker is slamming into the plunger to cause that damage. Although it does seem as if the factory block works better with the damaged striker.
It took me a while to convince myself striker guns where safe, now this. I thought their was no way for the striker to bypass that plunger block.
It took me a while to convince myself striker guns where safe, now this. I thought their was no way for the striker to bypass that plunger block.
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Fastbolt
Member
In the M&P (and the Walther P99) there's a second spring inside the striker assembly. It's the striker return spring, and its primary function is to help keep an uncocked striker from moving forward and bumping into the safety plunger. In my first SW99/P99 armorer class we were told the German engineers felt that it would help reduce unnecessary wear between the striker & striker safety plunger (when the striker was uncocked).
I'd not be quick, or even inclined, to try and attribute "fault" to the particular safety plunger, factory or aftermarket (unless something is obviously out-of-spec, of course).
Might be a defective striker (one that allowed excessively fast wear). You make enough manufactured parts, you're likely going to come across some unknowingly defective ones now and again.
Might be a defective trigger bar, where the vertical extension isn't lifting the plunger sufficiently high enough to freely clear the edge of the safety plunger, and the striker was being forced to rub against the plunger (resulting in accelerated wear of the striker's safety plunger engagement shoulder).
Glock's can experience peening on the corresponding spot on their firing pins. Glock refers to it as "chatter", and tells armorers that some amount is considered normal ... unless it ever reaches a point that it causes the firing pin to fail the similar firing pin safety plunger test. I've seen it to variable degrees on my own, and other, Glocks over the years.
The other guys I know who are using M&P's as personally owned off-duty weapons have a mix of factory & aftermarket parts in them. Most of them shoot the guns fairly frequently (firearm instructors), and I've not yet learned of any of them having their guns fail the striker safety plunger test, with either factory or aftermarket parts.
Doesn't mean it may not happen tomorrow, or next week, or next month, etc. That's why we do inspections, to monitor the condition and functioning of the guns, making sure they're working as designed and intended. That's why armorers are given a recommended list of safety checks.
I'd not be quick, or even inclined, to try and attribute "fault" to the particular safety plunger, factory or aftermarket (unless something is obviously out-of-spec, of course).
Might be a defective striker (one that allowed excessively fast wear). You make enough manufactured parts, you're likely going to come across some unknowingly defective ones now and again.
Might be a defective trigger bar, where the vertical extension isn't lifting the plunger sufficiently high enough to freely clear the edge of the safety plunger, and the striker was being forced to rub against the plunger (resulting in accelerated wear of the striker's safety plunger engagement shoulder).
Glock's can experience peening on the corresponding spot on their firing pins. Glock refers to it as "chatter", and tells armorers that some amount is considered normal ... unless it ever reaches a point that it causes the firing pin to fail the similar firing pin safety plunger test. I've seen it to variable degrees on my own, and other, Glocks over the years.
The other guys I know who are using M&P's as personally owned off-duty weapons have a mix of factory & aftermarket parts in them. Most of them shoot the guns fairly frequently (firearm instructors), and I've not yet learned of any of them having their guns fail the striker safety plunger test, with either factory or aftermarket parts.
Doesn't mean it may not happen tomorrow, or next week, or next month, etc. That's why we do inspections, to monitor the condition and functioning of the guns, making sure they're working as designed and intended. That's why armorers are given a recommended list of safety checks.
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danysw
Member
Will be part of my regular cleaning too. Thanks Fastbolt.
robkarrob
Member
If the gun is functioning properly, as mentioned earlier, the striker should not contact the blocker safety. Is the striker block binding in the bore hole? Test by pushing it in and out with a punch, at an angle, not straight in or out. The trigger bar tab pushes it in at around 45 degree angle from the front of the blocker. This should not be the problem as you would feel it binding in the trigger pull.
For some reason the timing is off on the blocker and it is not lifting high enough to clear the striker. Compare the height of the stock blocker to the Apex blocker. The height should be within a few thousands. Line them up next to each other and make sure the cuts, grooves are in the same place. If all is the same, then the problem is in the trigger bar blocker tap not pushing the blocker up high enough to clear the striker.
Did you grind or polish any of that tab? The way the striker is hitting the blocker so hard, I would think the gun was either not firing or getting a number of light hits. The blocker is a safety and should not contact the striker, under normal operation.
Bob
For some reason the timing is off on the blocker and it is not lifting high enough to clear the striker. Compare the height of the stock blocker to the Apex blocker. The height should be within a few thousands. Line them up next to each other and make sure the cuts, grooves are in the same place. If all is the same, then the problem is in the trigger bar blocker tap not pushing the blocker up high enough to clear the striker.
Did you grind or polish any of that tab? The way the striker is hitting the blocker so hard, I would think the gun was either not firing or getting a number of light hits. The blocker is a safety and should not contact the striker, under normal operation.
Bob
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