Ghost_Soldier
Member
The Sig 238 and Sig 239 are 2 entirely different platforms.
SEARCHING FOR THE MOST "ACCURATE"
- Thread starter Patriot1
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The Sig 238 and Sig 239 are 2 entirely different platforms.
Fishinfool
Member
Seems a lot of guys are answering your posts by telling you you do not need that kind of accuracy in a self defense gun. But that is not your question. You want more accuracy than the various service grade guns you already own deliver.
I would think your best bet is to pick just about any quality made, metal framed semi-auto, one whos features, size, and handeling you like, and send it to a custom gunsmith who works on accurizing handguns.
The same basics that make a target grade 1911 shoot well would apply to most any other similiar gun. You might want to contact S&W Performance Center, and see if they will do this kind of work on one of the metal / aluminum frame 3rd generation pistols. If not, plenty of smiths out there are capable, just a matter of how much you want to spend.
Larry
I would think your best bet is to pick just about any quality made, metal framed semi-auto, one whos features, size, and handeling you like, and send it to a custom gunsmith who works on accurizing handguns.
The same basics that make a target grade 1911 shoot well would apply to most any other similiar gun. You might want to contact S&W Performance Center, and see if they will do this kind of work on one of the metal / aluminum frame 3rd generation pistols. If not, plenty of smiths out there are capable, just a matter of how much you want to spend.
Larry
The major issue here is that the OP comments upon the "accuracy I am after" but doesn't specify what that is. As a result, the replys have ranged from suggestions that imply NRA championship bullseye capability at 50 yards to more reasonable comments based upon his apparent desire for something that conceals well. ie, self defense pistol.
There are a great many service grade pistols that will group in 2-3 inches at 25 yards all day. That doesn't require match barrels and various other accessories the gent mentions in passing. It's certainly more than sufficient for self defense, we just don't know what he's looking for.
Another issue is that the tight tolerances generally desired by the pride of ownership crowd can be detrimental to reliability for a carry piece. Which, while it may not roll around in the mud, blood, sawdust and beer, will certainly accumulate really impressive quantities of lint and grit in daily concealed carry. These can, and have, caused malfunctions including in service grade firearms (generally crud in the striker tunnel).
There are a great many service grade pistols that will group in 2-3 inches at 25 yards all day. That doesn't require match barrels and various other accessories the gent mentions in passing. It's certainly more than sufficient for self defense, we just don't know what he's looking for.
Another issue is that the tight tolerances generally desired by the pride of ownership crowd can be detrimental to reliability for a carry piece. Which, while it may not roll around in the mud, blood, sawdust and beer, will certainly accumulate really impressive quantities of lint and grit in daily concealed carry. These can, and have, caused malfunctions including in service grade firearms (generally crud in the striker tunnel).
Smith357
US Veteran
You want a Performance Center 945c. They are no longer listed in the catalogue, if you can find one they run about $1600+. They are the compact version of a custom target pistol.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...ery-large-accumulated-reference-material.html
Edit:
If you must have a 9mm look for a Performance Center 952. I'm not sure if they ever made a compact variation of this 9mm target pistol.
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walkin' trails
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I saw an article in a recent magazine ("Combat Handguns" I believe) featuring a test on the 9 Pro CORE. The article showed it was capable of shooting groups not much over an inch with factory ammo. The price of the gun does not necessarily reflect its accuracy.
That said, ammo places significant role in a pistol's accuracy. While one pistol may perform well and shoot tight groups with one particular brand and configuration of ammunition, another of identical or similar type or manufacture may not; but will instead perform better with another bullet configuration the former does not cause to group well. Most pistol accuracy is judged when the gun is locked into a rest. Most of us don't have the capability or consistency to hold a pistol as accurately, round after round to form a group as tight as a certain pistol is capable of using a rest.
I echo the poster who said that you already have one of the most desirable, accurate CCW pistols currently available - the Glock 19. Right now, a lot of wannabe Glock 19 owners are waiting in line as that is the one pistol I understand that Glock is backordered the longest. With any quality 124 grain HP bullet from a reputable manufacturer, the G19 should perform quite well if you do your part.
I have played with a Sig 938, and it seems to have interesting possibilities if you are willing to carry cocked and locked. the S&W Shield is another good gun to consider, and while not going to be a target pistol, seems to be as accurate as anyone would expect.
That said, ammo places significant role in a pistol's accuracy. While one pistol may perform well and shoot tight groups with one particular brand and configuration of ammunition, another of identical or similar type or manufacture may not; but will instead perform better with another bullet configuration the former does not cause to group well. Most pistol accuracy is judged when the gun is locked into a rest. Most of us don't have the capability or consistency to hold a pistol as accurately, round after round to form a group as tight as a certain pistol is capable of using a rest.
I echo the poster who said that you already have one of the most desirable, accurate CCW pistols currently available - the Glock 19. Right now, a lot of wannabe Glock 19 owners are waiting in line as that is the one pistol I understand that Glock is backordered the longest. With any quality 124 grain HP bullet from a reputable manufacturer, the G19 should perform quite well if you do your part.
I have played with a Sig 938, and it seems to have interesting possibilities if you are willing to carry cocked and locked. the S&W Shield is another good gun to consider, and while not going to be a target pistol, seems to be as accurate as anyone would expect.
"Platforms"??? Those, sir, are semi-automatic pistols.
Hi WalkinTrails; Your post is a good one. Also really appreciate the Administrators post as well as all others. I guess I was thinking there might be a custom shop out there where I could buy the M&P Core in 9mm (5"barrel) and then customize from there (match grade barrel, tungsden guide rod, spring, maybe AeroTek Ghost Ring sights, etc etc. I want to stick with 9mm but not the 1911 style. I really like the high capacity and the takedown is much easier than a 1911. Yes, I love my little Glock19 Gen4. Just searching for something maybe a little bigger and hopefully a little better accuracy as you need to reach out a little farther. Take a look at all the recent shootings of the last few years. In the mall, movie theatre, college campuses, etc etc. You would be lucky to get within 100 feet of the bad guy that has an assault rifle. Therein lies the problem.
32_d3gr33s
Member
For someone who reloads ammo, I have noticed a big difference in accuracy between factory loads, and handloads. Getting the "best" accuracy requires the right combination of numerous components. What may very well be the most accurate handgun, may not shoot near as accurate many mass produced handguns, if shot with the wrong ammunition. Now, i have not "test" fired more than a couple rounds of the SD ammo i carry (in my 9c), but with a quick draw, and 3 shots, they all hit within about 2 inches at 10 yards. Now I'm no marksman, but that definitely is well within my comfort range for accuracy in a self defense situation.
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The 210-2 is thinner and easier to carry in an IWB holster than the M&P pistol you mention. Pictures are deceptive. I am not sure how you think the 210-2 is "way too big for concealed carry," but are considering the M&P CORE, also a full size pistol, but thicker with a double stack magazine than the 210-2, which is single stack and which carries very much nicer than any M&P. I know this from personal experience.
S&W makes high end guns in the Performance Center, but they do not really build custom guns to a customer's specifications. Instead, they make runs of guns and you should check the S&W catalog to see what they are making now. The only super high end accuracy 9mm I am aware of they make on a semi-regular basis is the 952.
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100 feet is 33.4 yards, well within the capability of service pistols. My full size M&P9 and I have done 5 inches at 50 yards upon occasion. The pistol undoubtably does better than I do.
Deadeye Dick
Member
If the perp is 100 yards away or better I am most likely going to be widening the gap as quickly as I can. If that were not possible for some reason I would take cover and wait for the perp to come to me.
smokey0118
Member
hkp30 and walther p99AS both outshoot my m&p's in terms of raw accuracy(although my m&p45 hangs with them pretty well). If you're looking for a factory combat gun, those two would be amongst the more accurate. If you truly want something more, the poster that recommended buying a gun in the platform you're most familiar with/comfortable shooting and then having someone reputable build it up for you is the best choice. You can get accurate or reliable pretty easily, but to get both a gun really needs to be properly built by someone that knows what they're doing.
Gyrene6891
US Veteran
A not to be mentioned department's absolute best shooter got into a gun fight with a BG. The LEO was able to walk away and the BG was carried from the scene with 3 holes in his body. The LEO used an entire magazine and reload to make the 3 holes. When asked about what happened to his legendary marksmanship skill he stated, " It is a lot different shooting when someone is shooting back!"
DocSunShine
Member
Take a class from a respected instructor, train often and develop a warrior mindset if you want to be as accurate (and quick) as possible during a fight. M&Ps are damn accurate, especially since S&W fixed the 9mm barrel issue, .40s and .45s have always been good to go. 99/100 times it is the Indian that is deficient, not the arrow.
Also, P226 IMO is a terrible concealed carry choice. DA/SA guns really slow shooters down and throw off the first couple of shots when you have the awkward transition from DA to SA, which is I prefer striker fired.
Also, P226 IMO is a terrible concealed carry choice. DA/SA guns really slow shooters down and throw off the first couple of shots when you have the awkward transition from DA to SA, which is I prefer striker fired.
walkin' trails
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Patriot1, I copy. Shooters on this site or on others will be able to vouch for whether or not a 9 Pro CORE is as accurate as was described in the article I read. Nothing wrong, however, with wanting to make it shoot even tighter, if possible as long as you retain the reliability. Personally I would stay with more conventional sights; or you could add a micro red dot, as the CORE come with the slide already milled and tapped for the installation - which would set you back about the same as the modifications you desire would end up costing. Ghost ring sights have their place on rifles or shotguns, but I don't see that they add anything to a pistol, and would instead prefer a set of Heinies or similar competition-bred sights for precise, accurate shot placement.
As far as the G19 is concerned, I carried one in the Border Patrol years ago on those occasions I didn't feel like carrying my G17. I was a part time range officer then. In the down time, we would amuse ourselves by seeing how consistently we could ding the pepper popper at 100 yards. At that time, I could do it consistently with a 9mm and whatever factory load I had at the time (would have been patrol-issued 115 or 124 grain +P+). I also shot other handguns at that distance, to include S&W and Ruger 357s (Federal 110 grain magnum and probably 38 WC), five shot snubbies, and even a Beretta Model 21A in .22 LR with a 1.5 inch barrel. All were capable of hitting the popper although there was no chance of knocking it down. Of course soft tissue is easier to penetrate.
Anyway, barrel length is not always a limiting factor in longer distance shots. Practice, to include a lot of quality dry fire, and good sights are certainly necessary. I think that in regard to the recent shootings, specifically the Aurora movie theater, any law abiding citizen or off duty police officer with any gun he/she knew how to shoot would have made a difference. The impression the little @%&&$(_) gave me was that he didn't want to get himself hurt while he was hurting others, and a guy or gal with a five shot revolver might have stopped the fight before he did as much damage as he did. Who knows?
ArmyCop
Member
I can't say personally but I've heard "gun experts" say those that operate via "BlowBack" are more accurate due to the barrel not moving when ejecting a round.
Hi ArmyCop; Can you please expound on your post? Maybe a few good examples of via "blowback" pistols. God, I hate to be so dumb but I have not heard that term before and I have been shooting 9mm pistols for close to 45 years now. Yes, Iam ancient but still love shooting. Just trying to figure out a way to maybe put a match grade barrel in a M&P Core along with a few other goodies such as "great sights" etc etc. All the posters have been absolutely GREAT and I truly APPRECIATE all the input.
Deadeye Dick
Member
Direct blowback operated pistols are pretty much limited to .380acp and smaller calibers. The majority of .22rf semi-automatic pistols are of the blowback type. Ruger MKI, II, & III and Browning Buckmark pistols are a couple of examples. To the best of my knowledge no one manufactures a modern blowback pistol in 9mm.
silentflyer
Member
My guess would be a Browning HI-Power.
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