Shield or Taurus Millennium G2 9mm

Having owned S&W and Taurus (but neither of the models in question), I'd say it's worth it to wait and save for the Smith. I've not had a bad experience with my Taurus guns, but they aren't finished as nice or operate as smoothly.

Jhawk412 said:

This is what Taurus owners in my classes have always said right up until the time their gun fails or jams up so bad you can't unjam it.

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There are a lot of posters in this forum that have issues with the m&p fullsize and the shield, sending the unit back to the factory multiple times. Any forum, on any make or model, there are issues. Sometimes you get a lemon, sometimes a diamond. Jhawk 412, have you owned or shot a Taurus or just listen to people complain?

I have 3 Taurus handguns. A model 605 357 mag revolver (like a S&W 60), TCP738 (like a S&W bodyguard 380), and a PT111 Millennium Pro - basically the same gun as the G2 as far as I can tell. I've had no issues with any of them and the PT111 has had several hundred rounds down the pipe. I decided to buy the TCP after reading an article comparing it to the LCP and 380 shield. The article was written from the perspective of all 3 being rental guns at a busy range, and of the 3, the TCP was the only one that had NOT had to be returned to the factory for repair over a 2 year period of heavy rental use/abuse.

I received my new 9MM G2 Friday, and I'm impressed with the overall craftsmanship, including a factory hand polished feed ramp. Clearance sale at Palmetto State Armory $257 delivered.

I have both. Both are nice guns. For me, both have been reliable. The S&W seems to be better constructed overall, but the Taurus is fine. I carry the Shield daily because it is thinner and has a better feel to it (for me) than the Taurus does. Of course, the Taurus is a Double stack and the Shield is single (some call it a stack and a half) so the Taurus holds more rounds, but at the expense of being thicker / heavier. I like the thinner feel of the Shield and I use the 8 round clip. However, like I said, both are nice guns.

Is the trigger on the G2 like on the Pt709 slim? I sold the slim when I got my Shield due too that reason. The slim had a lot of take up on the first shot, but after it was ok.

caribe said:

Is the trigger on the G2 like on the Pt709 slim? I sold the slim when I got my Shield due too that reason. The slim had a lot of take up on the first shot, but after it was ok.

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I can't answer that because I never shot a pt709. The trigger on mine is fine, but I'm not one of those people that over micro-analyze it. Pull it, it goes bang, pull it again, it goes bang again. The difference between 6 and 8 pound trigger pulls...I don't care. Neither the Shield or the Taurus G2 are sold as target competition pistols so the way I look at it, it doesn't make a difference. I'm not criticizing people that care about small differences in trigger pull, that's their prerogative, I'm just saying that for me, it doesn't make a difference in recommending a gun or not. All I can say is that both triggers work fine. Hopefully someone that cares about any trigger differences can help you out.

Just a pic of my new Millenium G2 9MM.

I've really been going back and forth over this...I want a new carry gun, and I have held the Taurus PT111 G2 in a shop; it's a really good feeling gun, the trigger is very nice, and it's the right size. Right now, my local shop is selling the blue slide version for $290, and the Shield (w/o safety) is $380.

I like to save money as much as the next person, or maybe more, but $90 isn't that much difference...especially not if I have to pay $70 or so to ship the Taurus in for repairs. (I know they will pay for the initial period of ownership...which I haven't found stated anywhere, and people have said anywhere from 6 months to one year...but it's not unlimited.) The PT111 G2 is certainly an interesting gun, but S&W's service and quality is certainly worth the price difference...and in the event I ever do need warranty service beyond an initial period of ownership and have to pay to ship the Taurus, there may not be any real price difference.

These discussions are helpful to me, because every time I start focusing on price alone, I am glad to be reminded of my prior bad experiences and the current lack of paid shipping...and then it's no longer a question anymore.

Still on sale at Palmetto State Armory for $239.99, add $17 for shipping. The Youtube reviews have been outstanding on the G2, and many reviewers say Taurus hit a home run with this model. All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised with the craftsmanship and overall quality. I like the double strike capability, unobtrusive manual safety and 12+1 capacity. The Shield can't do that for me.

GKC said:

I've really been going back and forth over this...I want a new carry gun, and I have held the Taurus PT111 G2 in a shop; it's a really good feeling gun, the trigger is very nice, and it's the right size. Right now, my local shop is selling the blue slide version for $290, and the Shield (w/o safety) is $380.

I like to save money as much as the next person, or maybe more, but $90 isn't that much difference...especially not if I have to pay $70 or so to ship the Taurus in for repairs. (I know they will pay for the initial period of ownership...which I haven't found stated anywhere, and people have said anywhere from 6 months to one year...but it's not unlimited.) The PT111 G2 is certainly an interesting gun, but S&W's service and quality is certainly worth the price difference...and in the event I ever do need warranty service beyond an initial period of ownership and have to pay to ship the Taurus, there may not be any real price difference.

These discussions are helpful to me, because every time I start focusing on price alone, I am glad to be reminded of my prior bad experiences and the current lack of paid shipping...and then it's no longer a question anymore.

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caribe said:

Is the trigger on the G2 like on the Pt709 slim? I sold the slim when I got my Shield due too that reason. The slim had a lot of take up on the first shot, but after it was ok.

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Yes. The Mil Pro G2 trigger design is the same as the PT709. I can't say the parts are interchangeable but they look the same. Even if parts were available, the Taurus trigger/sear does not lend itself to rework, like the kits for M&P sears. By the way, restrike (second strike) is not as forceful as the normal SA primer impact.

Last I heard, Taurus will only sell parts for the PT738 TCP model (which is assembled in the US). There are almost no aftermarket parts for Taurus guns.

I believe Taurus will pay shipping for 90 days, currently, which is the only way to replace parts (except TCP). All parts come from Brazil and what will arrive and when seems to be somewhat of a mystery to Taurus US. I believe slow parts from Brazil account for most of the repair delays in Miami.

RalphMP9FS said:

All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised with the craftsmanship and overall quality. I like the double strike capability, unobtrusive manual safety and 12+1 capacity. The Shield can't do that for me.

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Well, the Shield may not have a 12 round capacity, nor double strike capability (many are divided as to whether that is a pro or con) but I would argue that the Shield has at least the same or better build quality.

I mean what I am about to say sincerely, for I wish no man ill with his choice of firearms, but I do hope you have nothing but good luck with your gun. Almost all the reports I have read are glowing...however, if there is a problem later on (after the initial period) will Taurus pay for shipping? Will they have it back to you in a couple of weeks? (In fairness, some people are reporting faster repair times from Taurus...but there are still plenty of reports of long delays.)

Those are the things that concern me about Taurus...and unless they are resolved, I just don't think I want to take a chance on a new Taurus.

If I was going to buy a used Taurus, I'd be happy to be covered by the lifetime warranty that follows the gun...and I would expect to pay shipping. When I am the original owner, though, I want the company to pay for shipping to repair the gun...and to get it back to me promptly. Companies like S&W, Ruger, Springfield Armory, and Armscor, to name a few, will do that.

I don't want to bash Taurus, but the few we sell, we sell twice, or 3 times. We sell it once to the new customer, then we sell it again after the new customer trades it in for a S&W, or Glock, & then again when it comes back to us for another round. Specifically the Judge. The lever that releases the cylinder doesn't stay all the way back, so the gun thinks the cylinder is open, & won't allow the gun to fire. Had a few customers with this problem on new Judges, & all we could do is tell them to send it to the factory a few miles away, in Miami. OTOH, their 1911's are great guns, & an excellent value for the money. But then again, most Springfield 1911's are made in Brazil, where Taurus is made. GARY

Yesterday at the range, I fired my second new PT111 G2 for the first time. I liked the first G2 so much that I had to buy another one since they were still on a clearance sale at Palmetto State Armory for $239.

Anyway, I shot 285 rounds of Federal Champion, PMC Bronze and Freedom Munitions, all 115gr round nose. All rounds shot flawlessly, without a hint of a hiccup. I'm not here to promote the new Taurus G2, but only to share my experience with two new PT111 G2's. It appears my G2's didn't need the 400+ round break-in procedure like my M&P did.

My wife bought a pt111g2 and I did the breakin. Great little pistol but I would not buy one unless you also had other pistols to fall back on if needed. The sig p226 mags work in the Taurus too. Trigger is a fuzz uder 5lb pull after 1000 rounds. zero issues with 5 or 6 types of ammo. Nice to have small thin double stack that can use a 18 round mag too.

I find it very funny that folks here will taut the Shield as having superior quality and reliability. Yet I scan down the list of threads in this M&P pistol forum, and it's Shield problems galore.

I own no less than 4 M&Ps, plus a 15-22. I've had zero problems with them, including my Shield 40. Yeah the 40C trigger was real gritty at first and the BG380's trigger was rather heavy, but I knew all that going in and have no problem shooting either. Others folks, however, have modded up a storm and cursed their M&P triggers to no end.

I have also owned 5 Taurus pistols, included the PT-111 G2 I just picked up recently. Only one I had to send to CS was the TCP (slide wouldn't lock back), but I bought that right after it came out, so teething pains I presume. Taurus took care of shipping and I got it back fixed in 3wks. Went on my EDC rotation for 3+yrs. Not a lick of trouble since and it has a way sweeter trigger than the BG380 could ever hope for. Yes, I would trust my life to it.

I judge a firearm on its own merit, regardless of brand reputation.

Update on my post about carrying a 111G2 as an off duty weapon. Well after starting to have spring failing issues w/ the G2 and unable to get replacement parts from Taurus(I am a LEO Armorer on dang near everything, except Ruger, and that's fine w/ me.), I deadlined the pistol and went back to a M&P 9c or a Shield as an off duty pistol. I had high hopes that Taurus would get their heads out of their butts and turn around as a Firearms Co. Kressler seemed to be getting it done when out-of-the-blue, Taurus Corporate fires him. As far as I am concerned, Taurus just went right back down into the crappy products/ crappy service hole they live in. ISO 2001 Certification, my *ss. Somebody paid somebody off on that, I assure you. Crappy guns from a Crappy Co. I am done w/ Taurus from here on, period. Sad, very sad.
As I have heard it said multiple times, "Friends don't let friends buy Taurus guns" A very muchly earned statement, IMHO.

Ofc.JL said:

Update on my post about carrying a 111G2 as an off duty weapon. Well after starting to have spring failing issues w/ the G2 and unable to get replacement parts from Taurus(I am a LEO Armorer on dang near everything, except Ruger, and that's fine w/ me.), I deadlined the pistol and went back to a M&P 9c or a Shield as an off duty pistol. I had high hopes that Taurus would get their heads out of their butts and turn around as a Firearms Co. Kressler seemed to be getting it done when out-of-the-blue, Taurus Corporate fires him. As far as I am concerned, Taurus just went right back down into the crappy products/ crappy service hole they live in. ISO 2001 Certification, my *ss. Somebody paid somebody off on that, I assure you. Crappy guns from a Crappy Co. I am done w/ Taurus from here on, period. Sad, very sad.
As I have heard it said multiple times, "Friends don't let friends buy Taurus guns" A very muchly earned statement, IMHO.

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If replacement aftermarket springs are not available, you can send it in for warranty repair. There's a guy at the Taurus forum checking to see if another brand stainless spring will fit the PT111 G2. He should have some answers in a few days. Failing recoil springs on the G2 has not been a problem that I have read about, and I think I have read almost everything on the PT111 G2. There are tons of posts with owners running thousands of rounds through them with zero issues.

Thanx, Ralph. I appreciate the info. And I really wanted to like the M111G2, a lot Just about perfect fit pistol. But, Alas, w/ no logistics to back up the end user, products like that are considered "throw-aways". Unable to service/ or repair makes it trash on the bench. I have several handguns in boxes that are gathering dust because there are no parts available to repair them. And no way to manufacture the parts.
Logistics matter. "The Devil is in the Details"
Pistol was still working, just failing fast, so I dumped it and told the new owner. End of story for me and Taurus. Never again.
Thanx again.

My gosh... what kinda **** Taurus CS is that? S&W will sell you Shield barrels all day long. Plus, all you gotta do is call and they'll send you the latest shear block and trigger bars... pronto!



Oh, wait....