I have about 5 rounds of Winchester Ranger +P+ that I was given some time ago. I have carried it in my full sized firearm before I downsized to the shield.

I know there are no saami specs for +P+ and it's not recommended in their manual but I'm curious.

Has anyone tried these rounds out of the shield? Will they cause a kaboom? I love these rounds and would readily load them up at the top of the mag.

I wouldn't be firing them all the time, as a matter of fact I would probably not fire them and only carry them as self defense rounds.

Guidance and suggestions are welcome!

Thanks

You don't know if your pistol will function reliably with this ammo even if it doesn't 'kaboom'. I'd have to test more than five rounds, at very least a few clips full.

Several years ago I was given a box of those Winchesters. I finally fired them in a SR9 and the little voices in my head were telling me that it wasn't the best of ideas. It was more due to the sound of the pistol cycling than anything else but I can't pinpoint it. Personally, I like hot loads but decided not to use them again. The box I had was pretty old and maybe they were hotter than what you'd get today. My EDC is a Shield and I just use a quality PD round. I also don't feel there's enough to be gained in a short barrel to justify it. I didn't have the Shield when I used up the box but I doubt I would have tried the Winchesters in it.

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NRA Certified Instructor-RSO

Avoid. Your gun will probably blow apart when you need it most. Never carry untested tested ammo.
Your pushing your luck with some +P rounds in the Shield. Look for bulging brass in standard +p rounds. +p+ would not even be considered in the Shields unsupportive chamber.

Did you not receive an owner's manual with your Shield?

Hey Spad . Don't you know that even if it says NO GO in the manual there are some folks that think it is going to be ok if some one on the internet says it is no problem. The world is full of this kind of folks AND the scary part is they VOTE and BREED

If you have reservations about your ammo, why would it be a better idea to load it for PD rather than test it at the range?
Test your PD ammo, test your Shield9, do your research but
don't assume it "might" be OK for self defense.

For 5 rounds, I say pass.

To the OP:

You should not use +P+ in the shield.

Despite the high cost of SD ammo, you should run enough through your firearm to be sure it cycles reliably.

There are tons of people who figure: 'Why read the manual yourself, when you can ask the question on a forum, where someone will quote the manual for you?'

PS: You forgot to give him the Page# and Paragraph of that info.

I did receive the manual and I did thoroughly read it. I'm not a novice to firearms but I was curious to see if someone had done it. I carry Speer gold dot standard velocity ammo.

I can also point out multiple manuals that say not to use +p+ because it's not saami rated so let's not jump into that. I didnt say I was hell bent on it and yeah I should have thought about testing it first. I'll take that

Rather than starting with backhanded comments and snyde remarks. Why not offer non editorial information that answers the question or if you don't have knowledge on the subject don't comment.

See also 9mm +p ammunition. Fourth paragraph of post #17:

Yeah I don't load it and definitely had my reservations about using it in my shield.

Thanks

Your Shield could probably handle the 5 rounds that you have. It has good chamber support but, it isn't recommended by the factory so you're always taking a chance. Don't let anyone on the internet tell you otherwise.

More importantly, this round consistently fails to expand when fired from 4 inch and 3.5 inch barreled handguns. The 3.1inch barrel in the Shield will not allow this bullet to perform at all. It would essentially be an expensive FMJ.

Expansion failure in a 3.5inch Glock: http://youtu.be/qC_mnlsM1nA
Expansion failure in a 4 inch Glock: http://youtu.be/zSY018CXRi8

Given the recent observations of bulging cases I wouldn't even consider using +p+. If I were getting any bulging cases with standard or +p ammo I would cease to use the Shield and send it back to S&W. If that didn't solve the problem, I would sell it. The bulging cases I have seen pictured causes me to consider the possibility of a rupture.

I did not know Ranger T came in +p+. I knew they have +P as I ordered 2 boxes, to be delivered on May 8th. This is the .45 version RA45TP. Dr. Gary Roberts found that the Talons of the Ranger T are sometimes not properly made (due to wearing down of the machine that cuts the internal slots) and standard RA45T will not expand as it should on those light scored bullets. But they found out that the +P ammo, that is only about 2000 psi above standard, allow just enough extra velocity from the round that it performs as it should out of short barrels, EVEN those bullets that have less than perfect Talons cut in the copper jacket.

I think using +P might be the recourse to use on the shield. And I have 3+ boxes of the regular "new" 6 talon design. They really need something in the 4.5" and better length barrel, MY opinion, to perform reliably shot after shot.

According to the manual +P is allowed but you will experience faster wear with it than standard, and can be shot at the range occasionally and carried for self defense. +P+ ammunition is NOT recommended in the S&W Shield.

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Vern

The only +P+ Ranger T load of which I am aware is the 127 grain 9mm round. I have a bit of it left and carry it in my Glock 17. Among the other things going for it, the load has passed Gary Roberts' testing and is among his recommended duty loads. (A friend used it to success in an OIS some years back, consistent with Gary's testing results.) This is essentially a successor to the old ISP load (115 grain +P+, which was loaded to very exacting performance and reliability specs). (A member here, "ispcapt", has told us that the new load was never adopted by ISP. I have no personal knowledge.) That load performed very well for ISP in their shootings with it, unlike many of the loads before that one. I bought a couple cases of it just before I left Illinois (individual officer purchase on the state contract), because it was only $12/1000 more than ball, so why have practice ammo?

To the best of my knowledge, only ISP got warranty coverage on their S&Ws with the +P+ load, and that was kept on the down low. I suspect they did because ISP had done a lot of work on the development of what would become the 4 digit pistols. ISP shot a lot at the time, as I understand it. An officer with whom I took a class at PTI used it in his 6906 duty weapon, and he had to have it rebuilt after 3500 rounds. It's rank stuff.

Can you safely shoot it in the Shield? Probably. I doubt you would get a Kb; more likely a lot more wear so that service life would be reduced. (See above.) It is also unpleasant in a small pistol. Would S&W approve? No. Is it worth shooting 5 rounds when it takes hundreds to show sufficient reliability to carry the pistol for serious purposes? Not even close. I doubt that the performance is enough better than any other 9mm load suitable for duty to make the pounding worth it anyway. Look at Gary's tests and pick another load you can buy in volume, and shoot well. Make sure it is reliable (500+ rounds without a malf), and drive on. What I have been using most in 9mm is the Black Hills all copper 115 grain +P, because I can get it in bulk consistently. The exception to that is in my 940, which does not respond well to higher pressure ammo and it unpleasant to shoot with it, so I carry standard pressure 147 grain gold dot in it. I suspect that in a compact, the standard pressure, heavier weight loads are a better choice. If you are really enamored of the load and can get enough to properly performance/reliability test it, shoot it in a Glock. They don't care as far as i know.

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NHI, 10-8.

When I carried my shield a few years ago I tested it with all my SD ammo I had. The 127 +p+ ammo firearms fired and functioned fine.

HST 124 +p also was fine.

My carry ammo settled on 147 HST for the past few years.

I will give you the same advise as I would to anyone I have trained. Buy at least a box of 50 rounds and run them through your gun without cleaning it from the first round until the last. IF AND ONLY IF the gun runs 100%, has no stoppages, shoots to point of aim and groups well then you can buy another box and feel safe for carry.
I see the same thing from many new gun owners who carry. They buy a box of NEWFANGLED ammo and carry it without testing it. Would you bet your or your families life on it working in your gun? Sorry to bust your testies but 5 rounds is not a test and especially if you don't fire them!!

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst