NC Highway Patrol "ditching" M&P357?

According to the article at this link, the SCHP is "ditching" their M&P357 pistols for the Sig 226/357. The article says the HP is having "extraction" issues.

NC Highway Patrol Ditching M&Ps for Sigs | Triangle Tactical

Does anyone know any more? I have a M&P357 and have put about 1,000 rounds through it with no problems of any kind.

Why an agency would pick a boutique round like 357 Sig over less expensive and just as capable 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP is beyond comprehension.

ultra45 said:

Why an agency would pick a boutique round like 357 Sig over less expensive and just as capable 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP is beyond comprehension.

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Well said.

Exactly the way I feel about someone buying a Chevy!

ultra45 said:

Why an agency would pick a boutique round like 357 Sig over less expensive and just as capable 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP is beyond comprehension.

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ultra45 said:

Why an agency would pick a boutique round like 357 Sig over less expensive and just as capable 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP is beyond comprehension.

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As much as I hate it, it's rarely about the quality of the product or value it brings to the end user. More often than not, it's about what the purchasing manager likes. Sometimes these contracts are simply about money for the initial purchase with no thought given to the up-keep and feeding.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that initially the .357Sig guns were $7 less per gun. So they bought them not realizing that the ammo was 20% more expensive.

One word. Politics

Ultra, I like that "boutique round", can I use that sometime?

I've noticed a lot of city cops here use the Sig 229 in .40, and Sigs are big with law enforcement anyway. Sig probably offered the highway patrol (state police) a sweeter contract than S&W could.

Harkrader said:

According to the article at this link, the SCHP is "ditching" their M&P357 pistols for the Sig 226/357. The article says the HP is having "extraction" issues.

NC Highway Patrol Ditching M&Ps for Sigs | Triangle Tactical

Does anyone know any more? I have a M&P357 and have put about 1,000 rounds through it with no problems of any kind.

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SCHP or NCHP ? The article also states that"some" MSP troops were/are issued 226 357 sig?? Where?? MSP just did a full spring replacement of their 40 sigs 226, so they should be around a while. Be Safe,

The .357 Sig caliber has it's biggest fans in the U.S. Secret Service. They have been carrying it for many years.

When DHS was formed in 2003, many of the Secret Service upper level managers went over to the TSA Air Marshal service. Subsequently the Air Marshals went to a Sig P229 in .357 Sig.

What I thought was interesting, was the fact that when most of the rest of DHS went to a new Sig P229 pistol, that pistol was ordered in .40 S&W.

Charlie-AKA said:

Sig probably offered the highway patrol (state police) a sweeter contract than S&W could.

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Precisely, money talks. Just like the military, your weapon's supplied by the lowest bidder. Most LEO's carry what they're issued.

.357 SIG got there a bit late

The .357 SIG was designed to duplicate the ballistics of the 125 grain loading in a .357 Magnum, the round generally credited with the highest percentage of one-shot-stops. Being a bottlenecked round, it is also less likely to have feeding/chambering issues. It's a great round for which I do not own any guns in that caliber.
SIG also makes a great handgun.

LEO cartridges underwent a tumultuous period following the infamous FBI Miami Shootout, of which, cartridge failure (9mm) was a major factor eventually prompting the FBI to go to the 10mm short-stack for a period while the .40 S&W was secretly on the drawing boards. The .40 got there first and ran away with the show. Nevertheless, you don't want to find yourself at the wrong end of a .357 SIG.

WOW! There sure is a lot of dislike for the 357Sig!
All I can say is my former employer purchased first the Sig 229/357 and then the 239/357, and we loved 'em. I could shoot it as fast and accurately as the Sig 228/9mm, and the boss liked the 357Sig for its flatter trajectory and higher energy at a given distance. They did have to buy ammo by the pallet since it was sporadically available.
I still like it, now in retirement, but have pretty much given up the Sigs (and any DA/SA) because I have considerable problems now with the double action / single action after the first shot, something that never bothered me before during 20 years using them. The M&P has been perfect for me. I've been wondering if my Sigs can be made DAO.
I recently read an article that reported the LAPD as saying they have had great success with the cartridge and are quite happy with it.
All comparisons I have seen show the 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP as delivering very similar results, so perhaps the 357Sig is not the step up it once was. One of our sons is a LEO. His department issues 9mm Glocks. He has been shooting since he was five and is now a department firearms trainer. He says he feels well armed with the 9mm. Winchester LEO ammo, I think.
Another is professional military (four "tours" in the desert giving his father more grey hair). He is proficient with and seems happy with almost any caliber. I think we all agree hits count more than caliber.

Here are some ballistics from Ballistics 101 | All the ballistic charts. Finally, in one place
Seems to me the 357Sig has a significant edge over 9mm.

357Sig ballistics:

Buffalo Bore:
125-gr JHP, 564 ft/lb, 1425 fps
Cor-Bon:
125-gr DPX, 505 ft/lb, 1350 fps
Double Tap
125-gr JHP, 584 ft/lob, 1450 fps
Extreme Shock:
115-gr EPR, 410 ft/lb, 1220 fps
Federal
125-gr JHP, 506 ft/lb, 1350 fps
Fiocchi:
124-gr FMJ, 505 ft/lb, 1350 fps.
Grizzly:
125-gr HPXTP, 624 ft/lb, 1500 fps.
Hornady:
124-gr HPXTP, 502 ft/lb, 1350 fps.
147-gr HPXTP, 490 ft/lb, 1225 fps
Remington:
125-gr UMC, 506 ft/lb, 1350 fps.
Speer:
125-gr Gold Dot HP, 506 ft/lb, 1350 fps
Winchester:
125-gr JHP, 506 ft/lb, 1350 fps.

9mm Ballistics:

Buffalo Bore:
124-gr JHP+P, 413 ft-lb, 1225 fps
115-gr TACXP, 500 ft-lb, 1400 fps
Cor-Bon:
115-gr DPX+P, 399 ft-lb, 1250 fps.
125-gr JHP+P, 434 ft-lb, 1350 fps.
Double Tap:
124-gr Bonded Defense JHP+P, 473 ft-lb, 1310 fps.
115-gr JHP+P, 511 ft-lb, 1415 fps.
147-gr JHP+P, 410 ft-lb, 1125 fps.
Extreme Shock:
115-gr EPR, 385 ft-lb, 1182 fps.
124-gr FF, 385 ft-lb, 1182 fps.
Federal:
115-gr JHP, 356 ft-lb, 1180 fps.
124-gr Hyd-Shok, 345 ft-lb, 1120 fps

I cannot understand why they would adopt another pistol in that same unfortunate cartridge.

For my purposes, the .357 SIG is too expensive, too destructive of the weapons and it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that the 9mm +P+ round does not do, and the 9mm has the advantage of lower cost and a higher magazine capacity.

It is hard to reconcile the objective performance criteria of the .357Sig in testing (which as noted shows no real difference from the performance of the 9/40/45) with the strong affection expressed by those who have shot someone with it. I was at a class (in NC) in 2008 with a couple NCHP trainers. They shot really well, and loved the pistol and round.

I'd be furious if I had to put up with a SIG of recent make (last decade or so). The problems with their QC are well documented among LE trainers, and DA/SA is all clownshoes, all the time. Given the appearance fetish that rules all state agencies, the odds of wiser heads prevailing and allowing personally owned, department approved sidearms in any decent caliber are just about zero.

I have a buddy in the nm state police and they "ditched" their m&p 357 due to slide cracking issues. They've now switched to the m&p 9. Just some additional info to contribute to potential problems with this gun/caliber.

Now that all those excessively long (and pointless) posts are out of the way...

The North Carolina Highway Patrol is, in fact, switching from the M&P .357 to the Sig 226 in .357. Saw two of them last week and they confirmed the change. I asked them why the change...they both said they honestly don't know and chalked it up to higher-ups said so. Extraction issues were news to them.

Talking pistol calibers these days is as divisive as religion and politics. It is laughable that everyone is an expert and everyone else is an idiot. This is still America where we have the luxury of owning one in every caliber and make if wanted. Personally I could care less if a guy is touting hi Hi Point C9 or 45 GAP as the schnizzle! I try pretty much everything if given the opportunity and find no issue whatsoever with .357 Sig or SA/DA pistols. Love my new to me M&P 9 and my older M&P 40 but not anymore than my Sigs.

I ditched my M&P 357 because of extraction problems.

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shawn mccarver said:

I cannot understand why they would adopt another pistol in that same unfortunate cartridge.

For my purposes, the .357 SIG is too expensive, too destructive of the weapons and it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that the 9mm +P+ round does not do, and the 9mm has the advantage of lower cost and a higher magazine capacity.

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What the .357 SIG gives you is beyond 9mm+P+ velocities, andSAMMI specs. Something the 9mm+P+ doesn't. And as far as I can remember only 1 manufacture ever rated a pistol for the load and that was the HK USP.
As for being "boutique" really? It was designed by Federal for SIG because SIG was sick of rebuilding P226, 228, and 225's that had been battered by +P+. Simply put the .357 SIG put 9mm+P+ out to pasture!
Oh yeah, why is 17 suddenly so much better that 15? There is a magazine release and you should be carrying at least one reload.
Dale