Crimson Trace has a new green compact laser especially designed for the Shield. There are also several holsters available for it (Alien Gear, De Santis, etc.). It looks like a good idea especially for a carry gun that would be used at
night. Does anybody out there have any real world experience that they would like to share -- For or Against?

I'm hesitating since the price of the laser is close to the price of the gun!!

Advice please!

I simply don't get it lasers.

When you shoot from the holster, your eyes have to look at the sight because that's where you put them - right in front of your eyes and your eyes are looking at your target.

If you're looking for a dot... your eyes are all focussed on the target. If you don't get that dot on there first time, you are then looking for the dot.

Of course, if you are instinctive point shooting and getting the dot on the target first time every time... what do you need a laser for?

I tried shooting a competition using one after a fair bit of practice. I found it distracting, until I didn't let it and just put rounds on target.

I don't know, and I don't mind admitting it... maybe I'm doing it wrong and some training from someone might change my perspective. Obviously plenty of people use them.

Mostly though, I see professionals that have been given them and talk about being in an non advantageous position round a corner laying on the floor or something.

Hmmm.


From a LEO perspective where aggressive rather than defensive comes into play, I can kinda see it. Particularly if a gun is needed to be held on someone and there are distractions to deal with or something.

For the rest of us though, the gun is the last resort.



The only real advantage I can see for them is when eyesight is an issue and/or for training.

I see more advantage in a front night sight to help catch the eye and get faster sight acquisition.

Front sight, front sight, front sight...


Of course, I may change my mind if someone can show me why I should. Until then, if money is burning a hole in your pocket I would look at night sight(s).

For now, I don't need something on my gun that costs money, takes batteries and can go wrong.

(I don't even really see the need for rear night sights, but that's a different issue).

Something I would suggest is looking around at the range next time you are there, or even better at a defensive shooting class and check out how many good, committed shooters run lasers. Also, look and see if you can find any classes on using a laser on a gun.

You're going to get some mixed opinions now...

I've had Crimson trace lasers on a few of my guns, but they were actual grips, not these weird looking ones they put on new polymer guns without removable grips. They totally change the look and feel of those guns. Look like some growth growing out of the gun

But they sure do work. I used to fire from the hip and hit the bullseye everytime

I see lasers as a training aid. Carrying in a real life SD situation can actually delay response time. However, at the range a laser can help train for point and shoot scenarios. It gives a visual for where the gun is actually pointing as opposed to where you think it was pointing, allowing for adjustments to be made that can help correct the perception. Lasers look cool, but looking cool on the streets can get you in trouble or in jail quick. That being said, I would really like Viridian to step up and make a light laser combo for the Shield. I can see the need for a light in SD and the laser being an option for training etc...would be a plus in my opinion. So, I can't comment on the product released by crimson Trace, but personally, I would not put out that kind of money a laser alone.

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M&P Shield 9MM

I also see them as only being useful as a training aid... Mostly for Snap-Cap/Dry-Fire practice. When you think you're not moving the pistol during trigger press, the laser will show you exactly how much you actually ARE moving it.

In Self Defense, people end up chasing the dot, rather than placing the front sight on target.
As mentioned... Forget the Laser... front sight, Front Sight, FRONT SIGHT.

I look forward to the availability of Crimson Trace green lasers for S&W J-frames, sometime in 2015.

Traditionalists would rather miss a target using iron sights, than to hit a target using a laser.

Only 91 more years to wait.

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M&P Shield 9MM

And the bullet goes where the dot is. That's the whole point.

But if it's NOT initially on the target, too many waste time 'Chasing the Dot'. That's the point.
If you can draw and get the dot (and subsequently, the Front Sight) on target every single time without adjustment, why do you need a laser?

I have a green laser on my M&P .22 and it is a lot of fun. I can definitely see the argument that it won't make you a better marksman because it won't. But I am a recreational target shooter so for me it was a fun thing just to play around with.

Now that I have it properly set up I can shoot really tight groups at 25 yards but you need a very steady hand to do it so there is some challenge.

I have tried shooting 25 yards using the fixed sights and was all over the place so the laser helps you to find the target center and put one right in it. The azimuth and elevation will have to be re-set if you change ammunition but it is still fun to tinker with.

By the way, here is a cheap Chinese one that is really bright, my wife actually found this for me.

Mini Green Laser Pointer with Battery (1x16340, Black) - USD $ 57.99

Lasers are great for dark conditions. There is a reason police and military use them, they work. I have a Crimson Trace Laser on a Ruger LC9 and a LaserMax on my Shield 40. The LC9 is just 1/8 inch shorter in length and height, than the Shield, so very similar in size. Some will say the CT is a better laser system, as when you grip it, it turns on.

Let me say my CT laser doesn't always turn on. The button switch must be pushed fairly straight back, when gripping the gun, to cause the laser to turn on. In my case, my middle finger didn't contact the button to push it in straight, but at a slight angle, and the only way I could get it to turn on every time was gripping with a super strong "death grip", which then allowed the button to always turn the laser on. Crimson trace sent me a replacement laser, and the replacement did the same thing. So the design did not work good with my hand size.

I have two other issues with that style of laser, which has the activation button on the front of the grip, under the trigger guard. The button sticks out about 1/4 inch. On a small gun, like the Shield, I can only get two fingers on the grip, with my little finger resting under the mag butt plate. I do not use the extended mag for carry. This makes an awkward and uncomfortable grip with one finger 1/4 inch further out than the other. The other complaint is the laser always goes on when you grip the gun. In my case that was not an issue, as I had to death grip it, but for others the laser was always on and could not be shut off. There are times you would not want the laser on to give away your location or the fact that you had a gun in your hand. To hold the gun with the laser off requires a very modified grip style.

I have the LaserMax on my Shield 40, and like it much better. The button is right where the end of the trigger finger should rest, if not on the trigger. It can be left off or easily turned on with a slight push of the button, with the trigger finger. The button does not affect the grip. I have no issue drawing the gun, swiping the safety off and turning the laser on in one action, before the muzzle is fully pointed at the target. It is muscle memory, if you practice it, it becomes second natured and automatic.

Lastly the CT lasers are about double the price of the LaserMax style lasers. Got my LaserMax for about $80, including delivery. My CT and LaserMax lasers are nearly identical in brightness, color, and focus. Yes red lasers can have different ranges of red color, based on their wavelength. I also have a few green lasers. They are much brighter and can be seen much easier in daylight. The green lasers are more expensive and use more power, thus draining the battery faster.

Bob

Great post Bob!!

I'm not the OP but I have the same questions he does. Thanks for a detailed explanation.

Randy

I have a CT on my Shield 9 and FS 1911 and the Insight my 380 Bodyguard. I use the laser for training (easy to see poor trigger control), unusual shooting positions (week hand around a wall), and to help bad guys make informed decisions. The CT always comes on when I grip it. The Insight is difficult to turn on with my trigger finger, so I think the CT is easier to deploy. The price for the green laser is too much for my budget.

Bob -- thank you for the detailed post and information. It gives
me a better understanding of options for the Shield.

I use lasers on most of my pistols. And the reason is my eyesight. I have had cataracts in both eyes and the lens replaced. My left eye can focus on the target and I can't see the sight clearly. My right eye is just opposite. If I could focus both at one time I would save the money and just buy more ammo for practice. Setting up the laser was a lot cheaper and a faster target acquisiton.

Thom

Detailed review and comparison, with pictures (from owner of both lasers) of Armalaser TR series and Crimson Trace LaserGuards (for any handgun).

Recently I decided I had had enough with CTC and decided to look and see if there was any new tech out there allowing me to switch lasers to a more reliable brand yet still with some sort of new instinctive activation which also offered a full grip on the firearm.

Finally, I found more than I thought was possible for a laser of this type in the Armalaser TR series (here a TR4 for my S&W M&P Shield).

The 7 Armalaser only features listed below, paired with the amazing customer service are totally unique for a small laser of this type. Simply put, the Armalaser TR series completely blows all of its competitors out of the water and stands alone at the top.

Reason to buy a Armalaser TR series over CTC (What the armalaser has which CTC can't match or simply doesn't offer.)

1.) Incredible caring customer service - they go out of their way just for you (from my experience, that was because they seemed to genuinely care). They'll 2 days stuff for ya!
-- you also get a class topping 5 year warranty (CTC only offers 3 year) AND
-- Armalaser offers and exchange program which is totally unique!

2.) Proximity technology instinctive/reactive touch activation of laser WITHOUT that silly unreliable button GRIP!!! Little gold strip on the rear part of the trigger guard. For me it works every time flawlessly and allows me what I had been looking for, A FULL GRIP ON THE FIREARM - spent 400 rounds last night and not one single hiccup! Goodbye CTC broken activation button FOREVER! I was far more accurate with this laser and a full grip on the firearm every shot!

3.) Mater on/off switch (seems quality made and durable) - this is great for range visits. Sometimes you want to work with just your sights and develop that skill without having to have to remove the laser because should you ever need to use your firearm in personal defense the laser will still be on there but it may be in daylight and using your sights might be a skill that saves you life. CTC have nothing like this... that pesky laser is always on when you are shooting (unless you remove it on and off which can lead to a disaster considering the silly screws that CTC offers that strip ALL the TIME) and ranges are dark places so you never really get to develop the sole skill of firing with just your sights... this is a skill everyone who carries should master. The Armalaser is the only reactive touch laser that offers you the option to develop this skill without removing the laser... HUGE!!!

4.) Two laser options which you can choose from easily! Pulsating (increases battery life to 12 hours MASSIVE) and steady (6 hours battery life). BUT YOU CAN CHOOSE!!!!!!!

5.) Brightness, while similar to the level of the CTC, I'd say the Armalaser is certainly brighter and especially brighter if the laser is aimed at human skin... It appears to almost glow on skin.

6.) Battery Door!!!!!!! FINALLY!!!!! Armalaser saw the problem with CTC battery changes and offered a genius solution. (maybe this one should go higher on the list....) no need to pull the whole thing off and mess with tiny allen screws that are prone to stripping and could mess with your sight alignment and overall accuracy - needing to be sighted in again. The batter door allows or extremely quick battery changes with only the SUPPLIED small philips head screwdriver... no more messing around with re-sighting after battery changes.

7.) Reliability and durability - made from some serious materials (Dupont Zytel) and the mount to the firearm is ROCK SOLID but MAINLY the best feature of the Armalasers is the use of proper philips head connecting screws and battery door screw. They are far far less likely to strip, increasing durability and never rendering your laser unsafe while firing it because you've been forced to use/carry it with just one connecting screw affixing the laser to the firearm. In the past with CTC, I have been forced to do this and it made me very uncomfortable. Eventually I just took it off completely while awaiting the replacement screws to arrive in the mail. Armalaser offers FREE REPLACEMENT SCREWS STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, no waiting for replacements!!!!! You have already been given them in the original packaging. GENIUS and caring!
-- On this front, what comes in the box, you also get two allen wrenches, two screws, and a small philips head screwdriver!!!! Everything you need and them some, right out of the box!

A note on why I wanted to get away from CTC and find something better out there!!- I've had several CTC lasers in the past but only because they offered instinctive activation of the laser just by gripping the firearm (but with the loss of a full grip.... sort of, its still a full grip essentially but the button is activated by your middle finger and protrudes from the firearm grip by a good little amount. But, the CTC button breaks so often that you have to grip carefully and with relatively light pressure with you middle finger that is doing the activation or else it will fail and kill the laser completely. This leaves you to mainly hang on with your last two fingers which, I really dislike and hurts my accuracy). I've owned two CTC's for this model of firearm (the lg-489). But all of them, no matter which firearm, continuously get sent back to CTC for repair or replacement mainly of the activation button always going wrong,... ALWAYS (last lg-489 lasted just a single month before complete failure!!!), there is a 4 week minimum turn around time to get a CTC laser sent in, repaired or replaced, and mailed back to you, at best. This is completely UNACCEPTABLE, for people like me who terrible eyesight a laser on a carry firearm is 100% mandatory. Knock my glasses off, I can't even see the front sight, forget about hitting anything as I couldn't hit anything to save my life without them, literally!!!!! But, with a laser, even then I'm a crack shot!!! 4 weeks without a laser on my carry firearm, especially one that cost 200 dollars is unprofessional, uncaring, and inappropriate. Get a better policy CTC (i.e., it breaks get confirmed by a LGS or gunsmith and they send you the replacement overnight in the mail and include a return mail envelope for you to send the defective one in. For a 200 dollar laser, this as a consumer is what should be expected

PS - I have no connection to Armalaser nor are they paying me two write such a glowing review. I did this because people should know the best thats out there in order to protect themselves and their families in the best way that they can, with the best equipment available. The good guys out there need a reliable laser like this in their hands at all times.

I've found that lasers are primarily useful indoors or in low light areas like parking garages. I attend the night and building course at the Firearms Academy of Seattle and they really increase hits in those situations. Outside in the sunlight they are slower than a visable front sight as you have to find them on the target. In all situations the green laser is easier for me to see than red lasers.

The reason I'm going to a laser is if I need to deploy my weapon and I'm in a position where I cannot bring the sights up to eye level, as on the floor. Just one more method of bringing the impact point to where I can see it.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

Test: 15 yards, 50 rounds on target. Looking for groupings.

On the left hand side with the yellow label is the Crimson trace LG-489H laser.

On the right hand side with the green label is the ArmaLaser TR4.

I reckon, along with the onlookers at the range, concluded that the ArmaLaser TR4 was the winner of this accuracy test.

I'm assuming there will be many who may disagree and probably give various reasons why the test isn't valid in their opinions. The guys at the range agreed that this was a fair test and the results are valid.

So far, reliability and accuracy fall in favor of the ArmaLaser TR4.

Sorry CT guys, I know you won't like this result but I gave it an equal chance to win.