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Stupid extractor pin!

AGoyette

AGoyette

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I am trying to remove the extractor pin on my 5" M&P Pro. I have put liquid wrench on it and have pounded away on it. It is bending my 1/16th punch. I got it to move a tiny bit, but no more. I took it to my LGS who has gunsmiths on staff and they played with it some and can't get it to move either. I am going from top down just like it shows in the videos. Grrr!
 
I'd try going from the bottom up, you may have mushroomed the upper part of the spring pin so it won't move in that direction. Maybe tap it and see if it moves and then work at it from both ends until you can get it to move. I didn't have any problems with any of the ones that I did, but then I was probably lucky and that Murphy guy couldn't find my house. Good luck. :)
 
Bkreutz said:
I'd try going from the bottom up, you may have mushroomed the upper part of the spring pin so it won't move in that direction. Maybe tap it and see if it moves and then work at it from both ends until you can get it to move. I didn't have any problems with any of the ones that I did, but then I was probably lucky and that Murphy guy couldn't find my house. Good luck. :)
Click to expand...

But Bkreutz, I thought it was a tapered pin. I did not think going from the bottom up would work...
 
BTW, I have succeeded in bending my 1/16th punch. It is too bent to even cut off to make it a short punch. Off to the store to buy two of them later this week. One to cut off and one to leave long.
 
I was under the impression the only thing tapered or directional were the sights and trigger headed pin? Everything else is either a roll or coil pin?

Good luck with it!
 
AGoyette said:
But Bkreutz, I thought it was a tapered pin. I did not think going from the bottom up would work...
Click to expand...

It's not tapered, it's a spring pin (just like the pins that hold the sear and trigger blocks in, only smaller). It will go either way. I use a roll pin punch that prevents the top of the pin from mushrooming. The reason the videos show it being pounded from the top is that the flat bottom of the slide is more stable than trying to balance the top of the slide on the sights :eek:. But you can put it in a vice or use a block of some sort.
 
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Yes, that pin is a roll pin and can go either way.

Are you using an armorer's block? Roll of tape? The pin should come out quite easily. I've had mine out a few times without issue.

Just out of curiosity, why are you removing the extractor?
 
Rastoff said:
Yes, that pin is a roll pin and can go either way.

Are you using an armorer's block? Roll of tape? The pin should come out quite easily. I've had mine out a few times without issue.

Just out of curiosity, why are you removing the extractor?
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Rastoff, I am removing it to A: clean it and the channel and B: to put in an Apex extractor. I am starting to have a few issues with the stock one.
 
The 2008 Revision of the M&P Armorer's Manual says to remove the extractor pin from the top of the slide to the bottom; and, to install the extractor pin from the bottom of the slide.
 
I have removed that pin on two of my three M&Ps and the third one is just like yours. I have bent or broken three punches trying and don't know what else to try. I'd love to hear how your story ends.
 
I posted something in your other thread.

FWIW, I've been told they use a 500 LB press to install the extractor pins (upward, from the bottom). The solid pins can be a royal pain to remove. I keep mine dry and bushed clean, and although I have the new replacement roll pins as spare parts, I have no plans to remove the solid pin from my 40c until such time as I may ever have to replace the extractor.

While the pins aren't tapered, the extractor pin hole in the slide does have a slight taper to it, being smaller at the top. Hence, why they tell armorers to remove them out the bottom and install them from the bottom.

The I-Beam extractors have been revised in recent years. The hooks are longer. I've been told they also received a bit more negative rake and a sharper profile. They do appear different to the eye, looking at them side-by-side, and the new extractors I've seen have a small "L" scratched by hand into one of the MIM depressions (not visible unless the extractor is outside the slide).

The factory extractors still require no fitting, and the same one is still used across the whole caliber range. (Dunno about the Shield, because even though I've updated on the standard M&P class a couple of times, I haven't yet gone through the new separate 4-hour class for the Shield.)
 
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I'm not sure when S&W used the solid extractor pins, but my oldest M&P (6/12) still has the original pin and it's a spring pin (not a roll pin). I popped it out from the bottom without a problem. I think the reason that they say to do it from the top is that there's a bit of a hole that guides the punch rather than try to line it up with a flush pin. (and the slide is steadier that way too). The size of the punch I used is .072" not a 1/16" (which is .062") This may contribute to the difficulty getting the pin out originally. (PS I don't have any armorers manuals, I just do it the old fashioned way):D

i-r22mFn5.jpg


i-bJnTtb5.jpg
 
Bkreutz said:
I'm not sure when S&W used the solid extractor pins, but my oldest M&P (6/12) still has the original pin and it's a spring pin (not a roll pin). I popped it out from the bottom without a problem. I think the reason that they say to do it from the top is that there's a bit of a hole that guides the punch rather than try to line it up with a flush pin. (and the slide is steadier that way too). The size of the punch I used is .072" not a 1/16" (which is .062") This may contribute to the difficulty getting the pin out originally. (PS I don't have any armorers manuals, I just do it the old fashioned way):D

i-r22mFn5.jpg


i-bJnTtb5.jpg
Click to expand...

The change over from the solid pin to the current coiled spring pin (which I lazily called a "roll" pin, as a generic term for something other than a solid pin ;) ) started occurring in the last few years. It was the original pin type in the .45 from the get-go, though.

Since the new coil pins have some "give" to them, we were told it's probably not going to hurt the slide (which is through hardened) if one of the coiled spring pins gets driven out the top. (Sloppy for an armorer to do it backwards, though.) However, once driven down into the hole from the top, meaning through the smaller opening of the top, it might not hold as well as if driven up into & against the tighter end of the pin hole (meaning from the bottom).

FWIW, I was told in another conversation with someone from the factory that the company had finally gotten around to identifying the proper size coil pins that could be used as extractor pins in 3rd gen guns, but that the website's parts list would not reflect that recent change. Instead, I'd have to call back and try to find a LE parts/service contact who could call around and/or look up the right part number (since the 3rd gen guns are dwindling in agency use).

So far, I've still only gotten the standard solid pins when ordering some extra 3rd gen extractor pins, hoping to see the new optional coil pins. :D

Yep, using the wrong size roll pin punch to try and drive out the pin could add some annoyance factor. :)

The current list of armorer tools for the M&P pistols:

*1/16 Hex/Allen wrench
*Flat blade screw driver (small)
*Armorer's block
*1/16 drive punch
*1/16 starter punch (for older solid style extractor pins) ;)
*1/16 roll pin punch
*1/8 roll pin punch
*Sigma tool (optional) - a nice plastic handled pin punch
*1/8 drive punch
*Hammer (preferably with brass/nylon head)
*1/4 brass rod
*S&W M&P sight tool

Now, the old Sigma (later the 'plastic pistol', or SW99) assembly pin is also pretty helpful for installing the headed trigger pin (what we used to call a 'slave' pin). It's still listed in the older plastic/M&P pistol armorer tool kit on their website. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57974_757972_757787_ProductDisplayErrorView_N Click for the toolkit info.
 
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I have found that a 5/64" roll pin punch works perfectly on the coiled spring/roll pin.
 
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Sight pusher. Beats using a brass drift punch/rod & hammer, especially when working with night sights.
 
Bkreukz,
I think I have the older style pin. It does have a hole on top, but under the slide, it is solid and smaller. I called S&W today and they are sending me a couple pins. When they get here I am just going to pay a smith to get it out. I did manage to mostly pound it back in underneath today. I had only gotten it to stick out a very very small amount. I also spent a lot of time cleaning out the extractor (which I do every time I clean the gun) with a dental pick. The youngest daughter shot it at tonight's match. I told her that it was being cranky so if she had any issues to just rack the slide. It behaved for her, so that is good. I still want to clean out the channel and replace the extractor with the Apex one. I will try to find the right sized punch. I do have a couple of 1 1/6" ones (got them today) since I bent the one I had.
 
I apologize in advance but are you using a steel or brass punch? You should use steel. When I fitted my Apex extractor it came out clean.
 
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