I've had my .40 S&W Shield for a few years now. It has always failed to feed a few times during a range session. The top of the bullet nose gets caught on the very bottom point of the feed ramp.
After getting my new Shield 9MM, I decided to send the .40 back to S&W to see if they could fix it.

Here is my description letter enclosed with my pistol of the failures I was experiencing...

• The roll pins move outside the frame and I must drive them back into position after each extended range session.

• I get failures to feed with every brand of ammunition I use in the pistol. This ammo includes Winchester White Box flat nose, Winchester PDX1, Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T. All of these rounds have 165 and 180 grain bullets. Included are all four magazines I own. I have segregated the magazines that fail to feed a round and all magazines are equally affected. The failure to feed appears to be that the nose of the bullet gets trapped on the very leading edge of the feed ramp.

Well, I got it back today and the repair order said...

Evaluate / Repair
Polished chamber and replaced extractor.
Replaced the magazine catch.

I fail to see how the repairs S&W did to this pistol in any way, shape or form was related to the issues I addressed.

The pistol was well cleaned and lubed when I sent it in to S&W. When I got it back it looked to me like it had been shot very little. Maybe once or twice.

I'm not sure if I should take it to the range and test it or just call S&W up and ask W T F?

Oh, and there was a new take down lever and mag release button in the box with the pistol. ???

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Armatissimi e liberissimi

Try the gun if it still fails they will answer the phone. Not every detail is written.

"take it to the range and test it"..............you answered your own question............

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Do you feel they should have put 50 or more rounds downrange?

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Don Mundell

Even though it doesn't make sense to you, I'd reserve judgement until I shot it. If still acting up, then make a what the what call.

How long did it take to get the gun back from S&W? Just wondering

"Evaluate / Repair" can cover a lot of issues that don't really need to be itemized.

This is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. Go to the range and shoot the thing, see if it's fixed.

My most recent experience with S&W was completely negative. About six months ago I got a letter, (real snail-mail type), telling me my Walther PPK/S had a recall. The letter had contact information including a website where I could apply for prepaid shipping. I did this. I got nothing. A day or two later, I completed the online form again, still nothing. About a week later I called, gave all my information to a rep and was promised a prepaid shipping tag in the US Mail and Nothing. Smith & Wesson, if you have a rep on this forum reading this, he'd better do something. You are losing credibility.

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Loyalty Above All.. but Honor

I've sent guns back to S&W, Springfield, Glock and Ruger. The explanation of the repair never made any sense to me or anyone else.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

First off why did it take a year to get to this point of sending it back to s&w. If not reliable don't cc it .

Have you checked the mag springs to see if there installed correctly . It would not be the first time that has happened ..

If the problem does not show till you have shot a number of rounds 30 to 50 look to control issues by the shooter . Much of what you describe can be found with kahr shooters and tends to be owner related problems and mag springs .

Should have figured that out in the first couple days .

Why start complaining before you see if the pistol works well.

GO SHOOT IT .

You fail to see how polishing the chamber can improve feeding?

Go shoot the thing and see if it's better. That's the first thing Smith's going to ask if you call them. "Is it still having the same problem?"

Wow!
When my customers send a gun back (very rare that they do) I find exactly what the problem is, thoroughly test the rifle to make sure the problem no longer exists. Then I let them know exactly what I did to correct the issue.
To address some of the comments here...
How many times do I think S&W should have shot my pistol? A lot more than they did. How could so few rounds through the pistol been a good test to see if the weapon failed to feed?
I have many concealed carry handguns. This is not my only pistol.
Complaining? I was merely asking a question.
Being a gunsmith myself, I see no relation to the failures I experienced with the repairs made.
I will shoot the pistol before calling S&W to see if the FTF has gone.

I will never ask another question here again.

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Armatissimi e liberissimi

Old Cop: "I've sent guns back to S&W, Springfield, Glock and Ruger. The explanation of the repair never made any sense to me or anyone else."
That matches my experience.

I am surprised at the problem with that S&W/Walther going back to S&W. I got my package label by email the same day. I don't remember the turnaround time, but it was short.

I sent an Anaconda to Colt. It looked as though it had been dragged behind a truck for a few thousand miles. All I said in the letter was the timing was off and it needed a new barrel.
There was NO explanation in the invoice they sent me but:
it was retimed perfectly;
The finish had been polished with no discernible loss to the roll marks;
The bill was $125 - for the barrel. Zip for the action job and polish.

I have a Taurus 101SS that was typically terrible. I had to send it to Taurus three times, the third time with a nasty note.

It came back with the explanation "barrel replaced" and "meets specs". Yeah, and what appeared to be all new internals, too.
Worked great ever after.

I wonder about how much the various manufacturers and gunsmiths shoot them. An excellent local gunsmith fires them until he is satisfied. For an auto, that usually means a couple magazines after he is satisfied the gun is working properly. For a revolver, it can be as few as three rounds - again, AFTER he is satisfied the work is done.

Giving S&W some credit, I doubt any problem we might send them is their first observation of it. To save time and money they likely have standard repairs for many problems that *I* might not see as similar or related. Once accomplished, I feel sure they can tell if the repair is effective after only a few rounds, just like the gunsmith I know.
Sending the magazines, good and bad, likely hastened the solution. I have handed balky magazines to knowledgeable gunsmiths or experienced shooters, and they've instantly spotted a problem that was "invisible" to me.

Finally, some ammo leaves a lot of fowling after only a few shots. My handloads with Winchester 231 practically require a mop after shooting as few as 10. Winchester "white box" .45ACP ammo blackens the muzzle and front sight of my 1911s quickly.
Other ammo barely taints the chamber after 100 rounds. If such a gun was handed to me I'd have no idea how many rounds went through it.

Guns that don't work frustrate me. I also consider every trip through the delivery services as running blindfolded through a mine field. The loss of a custom or familiar blaster cannot be made up by insurance.

Is turn-around time at S&W long? Cylinder & Slide told me nine months one time. I wanted their work, so I waited. Many have waiting times of over a year. I sent one gun to a custom gunsmith for a conversion. After 18 months I just had him send it back. Even some custom holster makers have long waits. Try Andy Arratoonian.

Why wouldn't I wait for S&W?

I have only dealt with SW customer service once, and that's with my Shield 9mm that I just got back in the mail (for FTE issues.) with a brand new barrel.

So I can't say anything bad about them...

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Glock 27
Shield 9mm

Well, suppose S&W had sent it back to you as clean, or even cleaner, than you sent it to them. What would you think then? Would you be complaining (yes, you were complaining) that it looked like they sent it back without even test firing it?

I can't think of one single reason why you wouldn't take it and test it yourself first, before questioning S&W's work and service. That's just common sense.

You know, there has been a few times I've asked questions or started threads on this forum and gotten answers that I didn't think were helpful, answers that were off topic, and even answers I thought were really rude and/or smart-alecky. I'd have been gone a long time ago if I took that stuff to heart.

Unless someone's deliberately insulting you, or calling you names or something, so what? This isn't the UN or Congress or some other august body. This is just another Internet forum...nothing here to get so totally offended by or bent out of shape about. But really, if you think you've been insulted or ridiculed or attacked, your most direct course of action is to report it to a forum moderator. Or just forget about it, whichever you prefer.

Bottom line is most people gave you a sensible answer...to shoot the pistol yourself before contacting S&W again. They may not have used the right words, but that's what it all boils down to.

No need to take your marbles and go home all mad and stuff.

Did anyone actually read a question in the OP's opening tread .

Personally, I could easily see how a slightly out-of-spec mag catch, and/or extractor, could crate the potential for the type of feeding stoppages you described.

Sounds like a repair tech might've given the gun a quick overall inspection and done some additional 'updating', too, meaning the takedown lever and polishing the barrel chamber. Might've gotten the original parts put back in the box.

I've also had some occasional head-scratching moments when trying to decipher a repair tag that accompanies a returned gun (not all problems can be corrected in the field at the armorer level ).

As far as the walking coil pins (locking block and/or sear housing block pins)? Quick and easy to just replace, and maybe the tech just didn't take the time to list them. (I remember being told that some earlier coil pins could end up being received from the vendor on the smaller end of the normal diameter needed to securely hold in the steel sub-chassis.)

So, if you haven't decided to run off due to some toes you feel were stepped on, how did the repaired gun do when you test-fired it? That's the ultimate test of a proper correction and repair, right?

BTW, last I heard, each new M&P pistol (and presumably their Shield cousins) is test-fired prior to shipping with 15 rounds loaded into 3 factory test mags (not the ones that get shipped with the guns), of whatever major American ammo is being bought & received at the moment.

For test-fire of repaired guns by armorers, I've usually heard factory recommendations (different company's classes) ranging from firing 1-2 magazines, to up to whatever the standard duty load-out may be for the armorer's agency (number of mags required to be carried in-service).

Sure, as an armorer I've often tried to give the issued user/private owner opportunity to fire more rounds themselves before I release the gun back into service. That's because I have the advantage of usually having the user/owner present ... which is also often handy to let me go downrange and observe the shooter while shooting the gun (which has more often than not let me discover the cause of the actual "problem" being the shooter, when I can't find anything wrong with a gun).

If the gun is just left on the bench, it obviously just gets repaired and test-fired by myself, or another armorer, and returned to the issuer user or owner. (Dunno about you, as a gunsmith, but as an armorer I really dislike getting notes accompanying some pistols, revolver, rifle or shotgun that only say "it's broken", or "it's not working". )

I realize some guys/gals get shaken when a gun doesn't work normally, so if I have the time and ammo (and the shooter present) I don't mind taking them (or having another instructor take them) back downrange and letting them fire up to 50-75 rounds of agency ammo to reassure them the gun is now functioning normally. I've also come to specifically reassure many users/owners that I won't intentionally return a gun to dedicated defensive service unless it's in such condition that I'd carry it, myself. (Doesn't mean I may not be wrong, of course, but that I'd be willing to risk being wrong. )

Sometimes you just can't please everyone, though. You've probably had an occasional customer like that, maybe? I'm not a licensed gunsmith, myself, just a simple LE armorer, so I don't pretend to have experience with a gunsmith's daily business (although I've known a few).

If the gun still doesn't work, I'd have them do it again until they get it resolved.

Just my thoughts.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I do think it's odd that you are a gunsmith and couldn't figure out yourself what the issue was. I'm not trying to be mean or call anybody names its just you said you were a gunsmith? And try not to take things too personally.. there are a lot of hardcore Smith and Wesson fans on the site.
I used to own a Kahr P45, after one bad day at the range I took the gun and the problem to my gunsmith. He looked at it and worked on it for about an hour, Fix the issue and charged me $64 for it.
Don't mean to sound like an *** but you said you were a Gunsmith.

Could this be our Gunsmith LMAO

Spring Gun Tunes - Custom precision tuning for spring guns

^^^ Yeah. What about it? Can you work on them?
Hyatt Gun Shop's gunsmith didn't want to touch them. They helped give me my start. I have customers from Hawaii to Puerto Rico. You? Can you do anything except be stupid? I get $305 each to tune one and tune about two a day and work a full time job. You?

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Armatissimi e liberissimi

I suspected the barrel ramp. Know where I can get a barrel genius?

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Armatissimi e liberissimi

Sorry, I said I wouldn't ask any more questions. No intelligent life here anyway. Bunch of losers.

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Armatissimi e liberissimi

The problems you described were pretty much normal for a new gun obviously the feed ramp needed polishing and I don't believe your roll pin was "walking" what I believe you were referring to is the trigger block pin which is the large pin under the takedown lever. All M&P's suffer from this to some extent but it cannot come loose because it's held in place by the takedown lever. Your gun came back clean because S&W cleaned it. So have you shot it yet? Is it working now? Plenty here to help you sort your problems out.

Folks,
We're done here.
I deleted a few replies, but left some others that serve as an excellent example of how NOT to behave on this board.

From the rules:
Sincerely,
chad

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"I also cook."