Is there any way to adjust the sight elevation on the full size 9? It's shooting a bit low. I think it's ammo. I had other ammo that hit at the right elevation, but I'm shooting cheap ammo for IDPA, and sorry, I won't be going to expensive factory ammo for IDPA matches. That would push the per match cost over my threshold.

To raise the point of impact you need a shorter front sight or taller rear sight

Check 10-8 or Warren/Sevigny

Consider reloading, most guys who shoot a lot of matches do....

The FS M&P 9 has a rear sight that is adjustable for windage and elevation. At least mine is anyways.

Because reloading will let me adjust my elevation? That IS what I asked about.

So far, I'm not shooting a lot of matches. Just one a month so far. I've done the math. Currently, the cost of cheap commercial ammo doesn't justify reloading. It would take me years to pay off a reloading setup.

Is yours a plain-jane FS 9? Or is it a Pro, Core, PC, or some other special model?

I understand this. Is there a way to do this? I don't SEE a way to adjust elevation on the rear sights. I looked for differing height replacement sights, too. I didn't find any.

Can you describe more about the ammo you are using now and the other ammo that hit at the elevation you liked?

Reloading can probably let you duplicate the ballistics of the more expensive ammo at the price of the cheap ammo. That's what Jeffhughes was getting at.

Whether is the pro series or the Core the rear factory sight provided is not adjustable for elevation. The only way it would be adjustable if there was an after market put on it.

If you have a factory fiber optic front sight, there really is not enough metal to reduce the front sight enough to make an elevation adjustment.

there are several after market options for adjustable rear, and different height front posts.

good luck. yours is not an uncommon problem.

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More info on the ammo you've been using would be helpful. USUALLY, heavier bullets will have a higher POI. So if you're using 115 gr. Ammo, try 124 or 147 gr. and see if that makes the correction you need. With factory OEM sights on all my S&W pistols (3-FS M&P's, 2 Shields and 2 SD/VE series), all shoot to POA with most ammo I've shot-factory or reloads. I normally shoot from 3-15 yards with FS and 3-10 yards with Shields. Again, more info would be helpful.

I agree with the 115 might be the problem if that is what you are using. 124 might help bring it up enough.

Have you shot from a rest of some kind? Have other skilled shooters tried it? Are your groups pretty consistent, just off center?

Shooting low, even low left, is a common complaint due more to issues with grip, trigger pull, sight picture and other shooter induced factors.

As others have suggested, the ammo used has a effect too. Shooting weak range reloads is quite different from shooting +P rounds.

I'm not jumping on you, just suggesting you should eliminate other factors before changing sight heights.

Hmm. I didn't realize that heavier bullets caused a higher POI. Heavier bullets results in lower muzzle velocity, and therefore I expected more bullet drop.

Yes. I didn't really have low POI problems while shooting from a rest. But also, I didn't have low POI shooting free handed either, until I switched ammo. My most recent trip to the range didn't involve bench shooting, as I've heard that bench shooting can result in a different POI than shooting free handed.

No other shooters have tried it. From the shooters I typically encounter at the range, I don't trust any of them to shoot better than I can. Yes, consistently low. About an inch at 10 yards.

I understand that grip, where your finger contacts the trigger, sight picture, flinching, etc, can all affect POI. I've been shooting for over 40 yrs. I'm not saying that I can't make mistakes, but I've worked through most of them. I have definitely worked through flinching. I had a .357 Colt King Cobra that I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with until I was able to stop flinching with it. However the stock M&P trigger, IMO, is not well suited for precise long range shooting, and that's what's giving me the most trouble. The trigger is heavier than I like. I had a Taurus PT99 once that had a VERY heavy trigger. I couldn't hit anything with it, so I sold it. I prefer a lighter trigger. I'm tempted by an Apex kit, but I want to give the stock trigger a fair chance first. I'm hoping that it will smooth out with enough shooting and dry firing. I could hit the black at 25 yards about 60-70% of the time with the KC, but compared to my M&P, it had a target trigger. I also have a Ruger Mk II with bull barrel, and I can hit black at 25 yards with it, too. The gun I have that's the closest to my M&P is my Ruger P85, and I don't have accuracy problems with it either. I can't hit the black at 25 yards consistently with it, but at 10 yards... no problem.

In this case, I played around with backstraps a couple of weeks ago. The smallest backstrap gave me the best results. And good elevation at 10 yards. Then I ordered some inexpensive ammo for matches, and it hits about 1 to 1.5 inches low. Both ammos were commercial reloads. One just hits higher than the other, and both are 115 gr.

Whether it's my inability to execute a precise trigger pull with this gun or ammo, I would benefit if I could raise the POI a couple of inches. If there's no way to adjust the rear sight for elevation (doesn't appear to be), then a stock (but shorter) front post would be my preferred solution. Then, if my POI goes back down for some reason, I can just go back to the stock one.

Williams Gunsight has fully adjustable fiber optic sight sets for the M&P. They work great and sell for $62.95.

Pistol Fire Sight Sets by WILLIAMS Gun Sight Company, Inc.

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OP is this full size used only for the IDPA matches or is it for possible defensive or other needs as well (sorry if i missed it)? Wasnt sure if changing sites to work with lower grade ammo is the best option long term if the gun has other uses.
How cheap was the ammo being used that affected the accuracy compared to the better grade that sounded like gave you the needed accuracy and consistency? Is it that much less than what can be found in bulk or brand name sale ammo?
Just curious, as i plan to look into some match/league options for more fun/training and like to see what others do and why.

It's for action pistol matches and for defense. That's why I didn't go with a 5" model. I want to get practice (in matches) with my defense weapon. The ammo that's shooting low is $0.181 per round delivered. Wally world prices come out close to $0.25 per round for Federal Champion. I'm not completely sure that my problem isn't my ability with the stock trigger. It's not a good trigger for long range precision shooting. In the last two matches, I've gotten about 50% hits on steel targets and bowling pins. Those targets require the most precision.

SGAmmo.com | Family Owned and Operated Ammo Sales, Stillwater OK

216/1000 delivered for 124g blazer brass.

If you want to practice for self defense, use similar ammo to what you carry.

If you want to use the cheapest and alter your gun, where will your SD ammo hit?

S!!t ammo gets s!!t results.

The reason that heavier ammo has a higher impact is that they stay in the barrel just a tad longer causing the barrel to rise a little before they leave it. Plus the heavier load has a little, just a little more recoil.

Yeah, I figured that the extra barrel time was the cause. I also figured that the lower muzzle velocity would be a greater effect. Just shows... what seems naturally true may not be.

thanks for the info. I'll admit my MP's (FS and compact 9's) are stock and I've learned to do pretty well with them as is, but I also dont have years of experience with other handguns/triggers to have anything to compare to for pros or cons.

Note for ammo, one can also get Blazer Brass 115 at Cabelas for $10.99/50 which = $.219/round or $219.80 with free delivery. I've only used 115 in my full size and compact MP's and keeping with Blazer (or UMC or Herters) have not noticed any issues with high or low that I could blame on ammo. Me yes, ammo no.
As JeffH posted as well, perhaps some online shopping for brand ammo could get you closer to what your budget is and will keep you consistent without having to alter the gun and it's effects when using it for SD.

How many IDPA matches have you shot?

Yes, it does for most people, but it shouldn't.

The gun will always shoot the same. If the POI changes when standing, it's us, not the gun.

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No, changing the way the gun is held will change the way it behaves in recoil before the bullet exits the muzzle, potentially affecting POI even if the shooter is doing everything right.

Check out this video:

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Freedom isn't free.

That sight looks nice. Anyone else have any experience with Williams Gunsight sights?

Two.

If you have perfect form, yes. However, I can hit what I aim at using a SA, DAO, DA/SA, or DA revolver. The only gun I've owned previously that I couldn't hit what I aimed at was a Taurus PT99. The trigger was VERY heavy, and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I think that M&P's and other striker guns have triggers that are not forgiving of errors in form. I'm sure my form is not perfect, but it's good enough to work with any other type trigger system. For this trigger system, I have to ask myself, is it easier to fix my form, and expect to stay perfect in the heat of a firefight, or should I just adjust the sights? I think I'll adjust the sights.

OP if you alter the sight to match the lower grade ammo used in matches are you concerned about the accuracy if/when you use this handgun with different grade ammo for self defense? Apologies if i missed that part earlier.

No, not really. Self defense scenarios usually occur within 20 ft or so, and at that distance, the difference won't be significant. However, in a match, I need to be able to hit steel targets at 20 yards.

In my last match, there was a steel target at 15-20 yards. I missed it twice, both shots going low, hitting the "non threat" target behind it (garnering me penalty points). When looking at the hits afterwards, if the elevation had been right, I'd have hit it on the first shot.

If I adjust the sights to move my POI upwards, then I'll be able to put the sights right on small long distance targets in matches. Which might mean that when shooting self defense ammo, the POI may be high. But it's easy to align the sights low, rather than cover the target with the sights.

I get that you are claiming that the gun doesn't move before the bullet exits.

Except it does, just not very much. We see this all the time with the tendency for heavier bullets to impact higher due to the change in recoil.

He's taking about a 1.5" change in POI at 10 yd. That works out to a bit less than 1/4 of a degree. Can you really see 1/4 of a degree in that video?