Rear dove tail red dot mount and on 2.0 9mm

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skar

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I traded in my old m&p 9 today for the new 2.0 (9mm)full size .
60 years old and eyes not so good. So how do the red dots work
That mount on the rear dove tail . What mount or package mount
And red dot . Or is it a gimmick . Don’t hold zero.:cry:
 
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Definately not a gimmick. I have several red dot mounted pistols. I like 3- 3.5 moa dot any bigger and it covers too much target. The way it allows you to transition from fast cowitness suppressor sights to precision shots. Alot of guys like the fast fire 3 it's cheap and there's a white line in the rear of the fast fire 3 this helps in lining up shots. I've also heard good things about vortex. I myself prefer the DR II red dots .They are in a league of there own but are becoming hard to find. Now that trijicon bought them. Anyhow for 200$ Primary Machine will mill your red dot onto your slide. They do great work. As well as the best customer service period.
 
stavey said:
Definately not a gimmick. I have several red dot mounted pistols. I like 3- 3.5 moa dot any bigger and it covers too much target. The way it allows you to transition from fast cowitness suppressor sights to precision shots. Alot of guys like the fast fire 3 it's cheap and there's a white line in the rear of the fast fire 3 this helps in lining up shots. I've also heard good things about vortex. I myself prefer the DR II red dots .They are in a league of there own but are becoming hard to find. Now that trijicon bought them. Anyhow for 200$ Primary Machine will mill your red dot onto your slide. They do great work. As well as the best customer service period.
Click to expand...
I wonder if they'd be able to do it on a 2.0 compact? On top of the slide there is a little "hole" milled out on the rght side about a half inch behind the loaded chamber window - not sure what ir is (?) - but I thought I read somewhere that this may prevent custom slide milling (for reflex sight).
 
That little hole is your "loaded chamber" indicator. When you look down thru it and see brass, you know it's loaded.
 
Trailryder50 said:
That little hole is your "loaded chamber" indicator. When you look down thru it and see brass, you know it's loaded.
Click to expand...
I know what the loaded chamber port is, but there is another pin sized hole in a u-shaped notch a bit further back on the right side (towards the rear sight).
 
Nicefish said:
I know what the loaded chamber port is, but there is another pin sized hole in a u-shaped notch a bit further back on the right side (towards the rear sight).
Click to expand...

That's the pin that holds in the extractor. I wouldn't think any machining for a red dot sight would go that far forward, covering access to that.
 
I thought you could get a mount that fits in the rear sight notch once the sight is removed??
 
Did some research on custom slide milling on 2.0 compact in regards to adding a optic, it appears that the 2.0 compact is"too new" for most shops. I found two shops (at least) that will do it: DP Customworks (North Carolina) and Primary Machine (California). A previous post mentioned Primary Machine, I couldn't find that they did the 2.0 compact on their website, so I emailed them. They got back with me and they said that they did and sent me a link. If you send either one of the shops your slide, depending on the options you select, it'll be around $200-$300.
 
kramden said:
I thought you could get a mount that fits in the rear sight notch once the sight is removed??
Click to expand...

Outer Impact sells one. Works well on my 2.0. Pluses and minuses to it. It's of course more ideal to have the slide machined, as far as accuracy at all ranges. But this is very reasonable to buy, and you don't have to possibly devalue the gun by having the slide modified.

M&P_FS_RightSide.jpg

M&P_FS_LeftSide.jpg
 
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As always, it depends on your intended use for the gun. If it is just for range/competition use, it could work OK, but you would be compromising a lot of the potential benefits of the RDS sighting system when used for self defense.

First and foremost, having iron sights that cowitness with the red dot is a huge advantage, not only as backups but also for learning to acquire the dot without “hunting” for it.

To do this, the sight needs to be as low as possible to the bore so the BUIS are not ridiculously tall. A sighting system closer to the bore is easier to use. Front and rear sights built into the RDS have such a short sight radius, so high above the bore, that they do not compare in precision or usefulness to traditionally mounted iron sights.

As well, most RDS dovetail plates simply mount the RDS on top of the plate with two screws. Only those two screws are securing the sight to the reciprocating slide. With a machined cut, ledges front and rear secure the sight, which is a much more robust method.

A dove tail mount with an inexpensive RDS will give you about 40% of the true RDS experience. Thus while it is relatively simple and economical (no slide cut) for trying out something new, you will be missing so many advantages that you cannot make a really good comparison between cheap and best.

While the DT system will work to some extent, if you make the decision to ditch it, you may be missing out out on using a significantly better sighting system, if you have self defense requirements.

If you just want to try the RDS system, see if you can rent one or use a buddy’s if you can find one. Fifteen minutes of proper instruction with dry and live firing will get you to the point quickly where you can determine if RDS might be good for you.
 
Very hard to recommend what you should do when we don’t know your use of the sighting system.
 
CB3 said:
Very hard to recommend what you should do when we don’t know your use of the sighting system.
Click to expand...

Well it’s a bedside gun for the most part . When at the range
The sights are getting blurry ....knocking on the door of 60 .
Old farts will know what I mean.

I can still hit the target ok but not like 10 years ago .
I started of talking red dot ( I have one on my AR)
Not sure I want to send slide out and then get a red dot .
Nice but that would be more then the gun was.

That why I started this thread to get ideas .
 
A green laser would be easier and cheaper to learn to use than a RDS.

That being said, I chose to go with the milled RMR mount with taller iron night sights for cowitnessing. You’re right, more than the cost of the gun, along with an Apex trigger system, Apex gunsmith fit barrel, stippled grip, extended magazines. Although expensive, I am pleased with how it shoots and very confident with the set up. I have a grip activated Sure Fire X300 mounted on the rail. I probably have close to $2000 invested.

I am 68 y/o and had Lasik surgery to improve my vision 15 years ago, but I too have trouble focusing on three different sight planes. I can do it under range conditions, but not so much in fast self defense situations. Being able to focus on the target with the more forgiving RDS alignment has helped a lot.

My wife has a laser on her self defense gun. It’s OK for her. It is an easier and cheaper route that probably could produce good results in a home self defense situation.
 
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CB3 said:
As always, it depends on your intended use for the gun. If it is just for range/competition use, it could work OK, but you would be compromising a lot of the potential benefits of the RDS sighting system when used for self defense.

First and foremost, having iron sights that cowitness with the red dot is a huge advantage, not only as backups but also for learning to acquire the dot without “hunting” for it.

To do this, the sight needs to be as low as possible to the bore so the BUIS are not ridiculously tall. A sighting system closer to the bore is easier to use. Front and rear sights built into the RDS have such a short sight radius, so high above the bore, that they do not compare in precision or usefulness to traditionally mounted iron sights.

As well, most RDS dovetail plates simply mount the RDS on top of the plate with two screws. Only those two screws are securing the sight to the reciprocating slide. With a machined cut, ledges front and rear secure the sight, which is a much more robust method.

A dove tail mount with an inexpensive RDS will give you about 40% of the true RDS experience. Thus while it is relatively simple and economical (no slide cut) for trying out something new, you will be missing so many advantages that you cannot make a really good comparison between cheap and best.

While the DT system will work to some extent, if you make the decision to ditch it, you may be missing out out on using a significantly better sighting system, if you have self defense requirements.

If you just want to try the RDS system, see if you can rent one or use a buddy’s if you can find one. Fifteen minutes of proper instruction with dry and live firing will get you to the point quickly where you can determine if RDS might be good for you.
Click to expand...
I agree that a dovetail mounted RDS is a range gun for most of us. That's what the one I pictured above is for me. But I don't agree that you can't get a very good experience out of that setup. I also have 2 - P320RX's with milled slides. I don't notice any down grade in my experience shooting the dovetail mounted RDS compared to them.

I do agree getting the slide milled is a more robust setup, and certainly recommend it. But a good dovetail mount is much cheaper, much less invasive and still works well.
 
skar said:
Ok maybe I should pick up a rail mount green laser and keep
The sights . Which one ?
Click to expand...

That could be a good choice, too. And I completely hear you on the aging eyes issue, which is why we've adopted lasers and red dots into our shooting systems.

We have some SD guns with the Crimson Trace "laser guard" green lasers on them, too. Pluses and minuses to everything. But shooting both a lot, I personally think the laser is the best method for a SD gun. First is the intimidation factor of having a laser on your chest. But more importantly to me, you don't have to be focused on your sights and you can shoot accurately with the gun in so many more positions. You could be holding the gun low, off the side, etc. But as long as the dot is where you want it, you're good. You need to practice that, of course, but it's easy to do. Lets you fire from cover w/o having to expose as much of yourself also, and lets you have better situational awareness since your vision does not have to be blocked by looking down a gun barrel. And with the laser guard models, all you have to do to turn it is on grip the gun.

The drawback can be that it might indicate exactly where you are, but so do flashlights and gun mounted lights.

At the range, I prefer red dots. But both are very accurate systems.
 
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