trikerdon
US Veteran
Can you fire 9mm +P ammo in the new S&W 9mm EZ?
+P ammo in the S&W 9mm EZ?
- Thread starter trikerdon
- Start date
Pisgah
Member
The manual for all Shield pistols gives pretty much the same info regarding +P ammo as for all other S&W firearms. Use of +P may result in accelerated wear, resulting in increased need for servicing. +P+ my be dangerous.
Essentially, S&W will warrant its guns for any ammo loaded within SAMMI pressure specs. +P has SAAMI pressure specs. +P+ does NOT, so use +P+ and all bets are off.
Essentially, S&W will warrant its guns for any ammo loaded within SAMMI pressure specs. +P has SAAMI pressure specs. +P+ does NOT, so use +P+ and all bets are off.
Ranger17
Member
Apologies if a dumb question as I don't run +P ammo; but is there any benefit to using it over modern SD ammo in a handgun with a shorter barrel and one that’s lightly sprung like the EZ?
Just curious.
Just curious.
Not a dumb question. You'd really have to chrono the loads and do penetration/expansion tests to get a definitive answer in itty bitty handguns.
+P ammo generally means that out of a service/full size handgun you should at least see the velocity claimed for standard velocity. Admittedly, since chronographs are much more common, advertised factory velocities do tend to be more realistic than in days gone by.
The one time I did do comparison tests in a service size handgun, the +P expanded a wee bit more. Can't recall the penetration results, but there wasn't any massive difference.
Since THE determining factor in incapacitation is shot placement, which do you shoot better with? Now this is putting multiple rounds on multiple targets, not slow fire groups.
+P ammo generally means that out of a service/full size handgun you should at least see the velocity claimed for standard velocity. Admittedly, since chronographs are much more common, advertised factory velocities do tend to be more realistic than in days gone by.
The one time I did do comparison tests in a service size handgun, the +P expanded a wee bit more. Can't recall the penetration results, but there wasn't any massive difference.
Since THE determining factor in incapacitation is shot placement, which do you shoot better with? Now this is putting multiple rounds on multiple targets, not slow fire groups.
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Groo01
Member
Groo here
I ALWAYS would pick a pistol rated for +P ammo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not because I would carry +P all the time but o that if +P is all I can
get I am OK...
Same reason I don't carry a 38 spec...
I can get the same gun in 357 mag and still shoot 38spec in it.
More options!!
I ALWAYS would pick a pistol rated for +P ammo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not because I would carry +P all the time but o that if +P is all I can
get I am OK...
Same reason I don't carry a 38 spec...
I can get the same gun in 357 mag and still shoot 38spec in it.
More options!!
Groo01
Member
Groo here
I ALWAYS would pick a pistol rated for +P ammo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not because I would carry +P all the time but o that if +P is all I can
get I am OK...
Same reason I don't carry a 38 spec...
I can get the same gun in 357 mag and still shoot 38spec in it.
More options!!
I ALWAYS would pick a pistol rated for +P ammo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not because I would carry +P all the time but o that if +P is all I can
get I am OK...
Same reason I don't carry a 38 spec...
I can get the same gun in 357 mag and still shoot 38spec in it.
More options!!
oink
Member
It's pretty common to find all available defense loads to be +P. Non +P defense loads can be hard to find at times. That can be true for both 9mm and 38s.
Lord knows I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer - but I never run +P in my 9-mils ... or .357 in any of the snubs I rotate thru the house. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the intended target AKA bogey man isn't going to notice the diff between +P and regular 9-mil. Plus, I'll have a smidgen of hearing left for the court appearances/etc that follow. Also, I sure don't want anything that might overpenetrate said miscreant and endanger folks on the other side. Just my .02¢ ...
oldiesradio1560
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Being a former Reserve LEO in the 70's I carried 357 Magnums. Model 66, 686, 640 and 640 Pro over the years. I'm used to the recoil on a 357 which is heavier than 38+P. February 2018 I brought my first automatic a 380EZ. What I've found at the range( over 3,000 rounds so far) is I can fire 64 rounds, rapid fire and create Only a 3-4 inch group for All of the 64 rounds instead of 6-8 inch group with 6 rounds of a 357. Back in the 70's we all had the mindset of more power for knock down with one or two rounds. With my 380EZ I've learned it's more about shot placement in a tighter group. And my EZ IS a Fun gun to shoot because a 357can get "old" pretty quick on your hand Web even for an experienced shooter like myself.
Rastoff
US Veteran
The answer is an emphatic no. Test after test has shown that the difference is insignificant between standard loads and +P.
Shot placement trumps all.
Wavygravy
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^^^ This! I see no reason for +P in a Shield of any type. It will cause increased wear and is against S&W recommendations. Standard 124 grain Federal HST has all the defensive power you need in a 9mm, imo.
Here ya go. Read the article, review the results, decide for yourself.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
The simple answer is yes you can shoot +P in your EZ however like any gun.....if you plan to fire 1k rounds a month of +P you are gonna have issues with spring and all.
Is there any upside to +P.....not particularly. A +P round has more punch do it yes....but it will also have more recoil......so ask yourself this.....is 1 shot of +P ammo, which will have only slightly more punch, BETTER than 2 shots of standard SD ammo.......
Personally I pick 2 shots over 1. Its easier to get shots off with non +P.......Of course we are talking 9mm, nothing super crazy anyway.
I do have a mag of +P ammo loaded for a Glock 19......The ammo was on sale and Im not shooting much of it.....so no worries there.
General rule I use is if you want to use +P.....practice with the standard stuff, carry +P if you must.
Is there any upside to +P.....not particularly. A +P round has more punch do it yes....but it will also have more recoil......so ask yourself this.....is 1 shot of +P ammo, which will have only slightly more punch, BETTER than 2 shots of standard SD ammo.......
Personally I pick 2 shots over 1. Its easier to get shots off with non +P.......Of course we are talking 9mm, nothing super crazy anyway.
I do have a mag of +P ammo loaded for a Glock 19......The ammo was on sale and Im not shooting much of it.....so no worries there.
General rule I use is if you want to use +P.....practice with the standard stuff, carry +P if you must.
All of my preferred daily carry 9mm is +P. Just happens to be my favorite for SD. I shoot 60 - 100 rounds per year of this ammo but my range ammo is Freedom Munitions 124gr JHP reloads.
I believe the majority of the newer, compact, carry type guns can shoot the +P ammo. I am to cheap to make it my everyday ammo but do buy 3 -5 new boxes per year then shoot my current stock.
I believe +P ammo was designed with LE in mind (penetration/expansion)duty type round. I don't think limited firing and choosing to carry should be an issue. My Shield PC 9mm, 3.6 Compact, and P365 XL shoot it without any issues as of yet with my Shield having the most (approximately 150rnds) of +P ammo fired.
I believe the majority of the newer, compact, carry type guns can shoot the +P ammo. I am to cheap to make it my everyday ammo but do buy 3 -5 new boxes per year then shoot my current stock.
I believe +P ammo was designed with LE in mind (penetration/expansion)duty type round. I don't think limited firing and choosing to carry should be an issue. My Shield PC 9mm, 3.6 Compact, and P365 XL shoot it without any issues as of yet with my Shield having the most (approximately 150rnds) of +P ammo fired.
Groo01
Member
Groo here
This is incorrect in that the difference between a standard and +P round
may be the difference in how the bullet performs in a specific barrel length
or gun.....
A specific bullet may not deform at standard pressure but will at +P
Some guns [thinking Euro spec ones] are intended to shoot some what
hotter loads [ more like our +P] where as our guns were [back in the day]
were designed for the lower power US loadings.
While newer "super" bullets "may" perform well at lower speeds
I still have doubts.[30+years LE]
For me, I use Federal 9BPLE +P+.
Not just for load [lowest pressure of the +P+ rounds] but also [as an LE round] Sealed case and primer
Nickle case, good proven bullet and accurate..........
Ps dont need many after proof run as paper shooting with cheep stuff.
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I carry 124 gr Federal HST bonded yadda-yaddas in my 6906. I don't have a chrono but I'm probably getting 1000 fps out of a 3 1/2" barrel. Can't say for certain but I'm pretty sure 12 of those will be pretty effective on most anything short of Grizzlies, moose or water buffalo. I sure ain't putting +P in a 25+ y/o alloy frame gun just to get an extra 75 fps "edge." 90% of the "general population" don't carry more than a cell phone for self defense. Joe
Rastoff
US Veteran
The data does not support your conclusions. Look at these two pics (both were snipped from the test linked above):
In the first we can see that the +P did indeed expand a touch more than the standard load. Still, do you really believe that 0.05" larger makes a significant difference? I don't.
In the second you can see that your assumption is completely wrong. In fact, the +P round didn't expand as much. Regardless, I still believe that the 0.06" difference is moot.
In both we can see that there is no significant difference in penetration.
I reiterate, +P does not make a significant difference. Shot placement trumps all. A .22LR placed in the heart is far more effective than any round in the foot.
standard pressure or +P or +P+ as many LE over the years have used factory loaded +P+ BUT do not loss recoil control and recovery for your next shot . You can during defensive drill using a shot timer compare slit times & accuaracy with standard velocity ammo and +P along with different weights . Might even be a small lady would prefer some different from the manly man of the house !!
My wife carries a Kimber ultra 3.24" barrel and uses 147gr standard pressure HST but in her M&P full size 4.25 inch pistol is underwood 124gr +P .
The site below does not cover all loads but gives you some insight -
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm
My wife carries a Kimber ultra 3.24" barrel and uses 147gr standard pressure HST but in her M&P full size 4.25 inch pistol is underwood 124gr +P .
The site below does not cover all loads but gives you some insight -
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm
Groo01
Member
Groo hereThe data does not support your conclusions. Look at these two pics (both were snipped from the test linked above):
In the first we can see that the +P did indeed expand a touch more than the standard load. Still, do you really believe that 0.05" larger makes a significant difference? I don't.
In the second you can see that your assumption is completely wrong. In fact, the +P round didn't expand as much. Regardless, I still believe that the 0.06" difference is moot.
In both we can see that there is no significant difference in penetration.
I reiterate, +P does not make a significant difference. Shot placement trumps all. A .22LR placed in the heart is far more effective than any round in the foot.
Remember I said this was gun depended on the gun..
I have a 9mm with a sub-3 in barrel that will show the difference...
Also I stated the OTHER things such loads might bring......
Pick what you like but don't trust the jello OR FBI specs..
I doubt you , I ,or most on this board are FBI or will be involved with
such things...
Doug M.
Member
First find one of the loads that passes the objective criteria and has made it on to the latest version of Doc Roberts' list. Limit yourself to only considering those loads. THEN, make sure it works in your gun, in your hands. Determine how well you can shoot it; a heavier load that you can't shoot as well is counter-productive. Buy a good stock of it, and make sure you have a quantity that you anticipate will last you for an extended period (I buy most of my ammo in multiples of 1000s). Drive on.
