New 9mm EZ shooting very low at 25 yds.

robnkivseries70 · Jun 2, 2020

Hi All,
New guy here and my first new S&W in ages. I took delivery on a new 9mm EZ and got it out the range today. It functioned perfectly but was about a foot low at 25 yards.

I really don't want to return it, so I am looking for an after market front sight that is shorter and narrower. What else fits the cut in the slide for the front sight. Thanks!
Best,
Rob

ptf18 · Jun 2, 2020

Sight adjustments needed?

What ammo are you using? How are you shooting the gun? 1 hand, 2 hand, off a rest, etc?

robnkivseries70 · Jun 2, 2020

Thanks for the reply, It was older ammo but I will state it wasn't that wimpy feeling. I shot the same ammo in something else and the group was satisfactory. 2 handed and I felt in control, I traded a Ruger LC9s so there is not much difference in size. Thanks for the reply, any help appreciated. I haven't had a new S&W since I bought a M19 back in the early 70s

Best,
Rob

sheppard · Jun 3, 2020

Are you positioning the front sight dot over the target or trying to use the old traditional six o'clock hold. In my experience modern pistols are sighted to use the first technique commonly called combat sighting.

scooter123 · Jun 3, 2020

Rob, if you were shooting 115 grain ammo that is likly the reason you were shooting low. You may want to try 124 and 147 grain loads to determine what weight bullets your sights are regulated for.

BTW, both of my Ruger LC9S Pro's are regulated for 147 grain loads. If I need to get some once fired cases I'll shoot off some boxes of Remington UMC 115 grain and place the front sight higher in the rear sight notch to adjust for the lighter bullet.

sandog · Jun 3, 2020

I have seen many of these small pistols shoot 3, 4 even 5 inches low (or high) but a foot is pretty extreme.

As said above, make sure you are covering the middle of the target with the front sight dot, not holding under it.

It's possible you are trying to anticipate recoil and pulling the pistol down when firing. Have someone else load the gun and hand it to you, and every so often not chamber a round.
If you are anticipating recoil and pulling down it will be apparent when you click on an empty chamber.

Next, as scooter mentioned, if you are shooting that low, forget 115 grain, and even 124 grain, and shoot only 147 grain ammo.
The heavier, slower bullet will impact higher on the target.

If those things still have not taken care of the low groups, you'll need a lower front sight. Dawson Precision has a formula that will help you determine which of their replacement sights will be needed to bring your groups up.

max503 · Jun 3, 2020

After you find your load file off the top of the front sight to raise the point of impact. IMHO that's why they make them with a high front sight blade.

robnkivseries70 · Jun 3, 2020

As far as the target is concerned, I want the point of impact to match point of aim. It would seem to me that a "6 oclock hold" would depend upon the diameter of the bull, if you are going to score hits in the X ring.

Regarding bullet weights, everything was 115 gr. I have some 124 gr ball around here somewhere, it will be up next. Any comments on replacement front sights.

I've never had any experience with 147 gr. 9mm loads, seems like they would be slow in the short barrel.

Thanks,

Rob

ContinentalOp · Jun 3, 2020

robnkivseries70 said:
I've never had any experience with 147 gr. 9mm loads, seems like they would be slow in the short barrel.

FWIW, my EDC is a Beretta PX4 Compact, which has a shorter barrel than your EZ. I carry Federal 147gr HST and use Speer Lawman 147gr TMJ for practice. No issues with either load.

Another thing to consider. Not all handgun sights are regulated at 25yds. 15yds is pretty common, but I can't say if that's the distance your gun was regulated for. And I can't say if that difference alone could account for the low groups you're getting. You may want to shoot an e-mail to S&W customer service and ask them. I did that for my 642, and they told me its sights were regulated for 7yds.

Have you tried having someone you know is a good marksman try shooting your gun and ammo at the same distance?

WR Moore · Jun 3, 2020

We see a lot of these posts since the M&P series came out. The major issue here is almost always your management of the trigger, which at least in the 1.0 full size, was much more similar to a double action revolver than most "other" semi-auto designs.

When we did transition training from 3rd generation S&Ws to the M&P 1.0 series we also had the low point of impact issue initially. Once the trigger was learned these disappeared. From personal experience I can assure you that swapping back and forth between trigger systems only demonstrates that you've learned to manage the "other" system but not the M&P trigger.

Looking at the sights, given the sight radius of a 1911 (~7 inches) a change of sight 0.005 inches would give about 1 inch of impact change at 25 yards. A shorter sight radius moves the point of impact further. However, if we take the initial adjustment, moving the point of impact 1 foot at 25 yards means wacking 0.060 inches off your front sight. Taking a guess given the shorter sight radius, probably 0.040 inches would probably be in that ball park. That's absurd.

I'd strongly suggest a lot of dry fire while paying very close attention to your front sight. I expect part of your problem may be over travel of the M&P trigger after sear release. It probably was mine.

As to width of your front sight, perhaps the easier/cheaper method of getting more light through your sights is opening up the notch in the rear sight. I can sympathize, I've opened a lot of rear sight notches myself.

robnkivseries70 · Jun 3, 2020

HI All,
I finally ran the sight height calculator. It seems I'd have to knock off .078 in. off the front sight and there wouldn't be much left. The next thing will be to get to the range again with some different ammo. I'll post back with a report.
Thanks,
Rob

505Gibbs · Jun 3, 2020

If this sounds naïve please forgive me guys and gals BUT these are for self defense primarily; 5 - 8 feet sounds more appropriate rather than checking at even 15 yards. IMO.

robnkivseries70 · Jun 3, 2020

robnkivseries70 said:
HI All,
I finally ran the sight height calculator. It seems I'd have to knock off .078 in. off the front sight and there wouldn't be much left. The next thing will be to get to the range again with some different ammo. I'll post back with a report.
Thanks,
Rob

I made a quick range trip this AM. My best information is, Sights & Trigger Sights & Trigger, Sights & Trigger. I spent quite some time working on the sights and trigger control. I got some confidence back using the range bag as a rest. While I'm not perfect, there was much improvement. One good indication was the correction of a small windage change I had made yesterday. I put it down to the new piece, sights, trigger and that my attention was divided yesterday. As they say,'The good soldier doesn't blame his equipment." Thanks to everyone who offered help. I need to practice more often!
Best,
Rob

PHolster · Jun 3, 2020

robnkivseries70 said:
As far as the target is concerned, I want the point of impact to match point of aim. It would seem to me that a "6 oclock hold" would depend upon the diameter of the bull, if you are going to score hits in the X ring.

Regarding bullet weights, everything was 115 gr. I have some 124 gr ball around here somewhere, it will be up next. Any comments on replacement front sights.

I've never had any experience with 147 gr. 9mm loads, seems like they would be slow in the short barrel.

Thanks,

Rob

You need to shoot the gun from a rest to understand exactly what the gun is doing.

Most self defense pistols are set up to use the combat hold. such as shown in example 3.

13bentarm · Jun 3, 2020

I also purchased the EZ 9mm and it does shoot low at first. I finally figured out I was bringing my head to the sights, not the sights to my eyes. It was causing my aim to be lower than normal. I've never experienced this before with any weapon, I don't know if it's the ergonomics or the grip safety or what, but 250 rounds later I am vastly improved over my initial outing.

WR Moore · Jun 3, 2020

505Gibbs said:
If this sounds naïve please forgive me guys and gals BUT these are for self defense primarily; 5 - 8 feet sounds more appropriate rather than checking at even 15 yards. IMO.

While the average distance for private citizen shootings is 5 yards, the extremes are 2 yards and 27 yards. This is from a number of incidents, approaching 100, where circumstances were determined by police investigation and/or surveilance video. Admittedly, at 27 yards your first priority probably ought to be seeking cover or escape, but you might not have those options.

Assuming your incident is going to be at bad breath range is not a good idea. Old Uniform Crime Report stats show that at the ranges you cite the shootings are ambush shootings by bad folks and the win rate of the good folks are around 10%. This is because the bad folks know there's gonna be a shooting and get their licks in first.

robnkivseries70 · Jun 3, 2020

I see my last message has not been posted yet.
Best,
Rob

Execpro · Jun 3, 2020

If you align all dots equally across, my 9mm EZ shot low. I painted the front sight yellow (covering the miss drilled front white dot) and my groups shot POA=POI using Federal HST 124 gr bullets. There was a very long thread on this subject back in December 19 of 2019 "First range trip Shield 9mm EZ".
I plan to replace the factory sights with night sights at some point.

UPDATED 6/19

Picture 3 is lining up all 3 dots in a even row.
Picture 4 is with lining up the top of front sight with back sight
(Therefore the need to paint the front sight and black out the dots
on the rear sight).

OKFC05 · Jun 3, 2020

Dawson Precision is my favorite source for S&W M&P sights.
Dawson Precision S&W M&P Shield Fiber Optic Front Sights - Dawson Precision, Inc.

Getting the factory sights out is a ROYAL PIA!!! #@#*&%$

fyi: My 9mm EZ review

BE Mike · Jun 3, 2020

I would first look at the weakest link in the system. It isn't the gun or ammo. Shooting low is usually an indication of anticipation of recoil. It isn't easy to determine by shooting, but can become obvious with ball and dummy exercises. I think shooting at 25 yards is absolutely a good distance to determine your sight settings and accuracy. Even if you are a good pistolero, sometimes a new system (especially trigger) takes a while to master.

New 9mm EZ shooting very low at 25 yds.

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