M&P 2.0 significant slide movement upon trigger break

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alou

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I have a M&P 2.0 with an Apex FSS kit. I've always noticed the triangle reticle of my Delta Point Pro would shift when the trigger breaks and wasn't sure if it was me, the trigger, or the gun. I focus on bullseye accuracy so I'm very confident it wasn't me jerking the trigger. I suspected the slide was moving when the trigger breaks. To test my hypothesis, I put on an Olight Baldr Pro with an integrated green laser which is mounted on the frame. I zeroed the laser to the red dot (triangle) at 10 yards. My suspicions were correct. The slide was moving up and to the left. I tried to take pics but they wouldn't come out right so a drawing would have to do. The top picture is before the trigger is pulled. Notice how the dot (laser) is in the middle of the triangle (rds sight). The bottom picture is after the trigger is pulled. Notice how the triangle reticle shifted up and to the left of the laser. What makes this especially frustrating is that not only does this happen inconsistently (60-70% of the time, the degree of movement varies as well. My accuracy is with this gun is not consistent and I believe this may be the culprit.

**UPDATE**

Well, I think I finally figured it out. I have a high grip with the thumb on my firing hand where it lightly contacts the slide. Never had a problem with the grip with any of my other guns. But with this one, I think there is enough slop in the fame to slide fit that it actually causes the slide to shift right. Once I removed contact with the slide by placing my firing hand's thumb on top of my support thumb, all slide movement stopped. Solved the problem but now I gotta remember to do that when shooting this gun. :(
 

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Yes, the slide can move a little on the frame. What's important is that the barrel is fully locked up with the slide. So, if the slide moves, the sights and barrel move with it. As long as the sights remain on the intended target during the trigger press, the bullet will go where you want it.

The M&P line, even with the FSS, has terrible over travel. This over travel causes gun movement, but it should be after the bullet has left the bore.
 
Rastoff said:
Yes, the slide can move a little on the frame. What's important is that the barrel is fully locked up with the slide. So, if the slide moves, the sights and barrel move with it. As long as the sights remain on the intended target during the trigger press, the bullet will go where you want it.

The M&P line, even with the FSS, has terrible over travel. This over travel causes gun movement, but it should be after the bullet has left the bore.
Click to expand...

Hopefully the 2.0 has solved the premature lockup problem the 1.0's have.
 
I have noticed slide/sight movement while dry firing. My actual shooting does not show groups to be effected by this. When I get flyers or poor groups I know it's me.
 
my 2.0 Core will twitch the front sight constantly left when the sear breaks. It's not my trigger press because it will do the same thing shooting left-hand. The RMR makes it very noticeable, but you can observe it with the front sight. Still shoots great though so I don't worry about it.
 
Rastoff said:
I don't know what you mean by this. None of my M&P pistols exhibit any issues.
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Are any of them 1.0s? The premature lockup issue was a problem with the 1.0s. Results in poor accuracy. I noticed it the first time I shot one. Groups were about twice what they should be. You can't "see" it. Apex discovered the problem with high speed cameras and noticed the slide goes back and unlocks the barrel before the bullet leaves the barrel, resulting in poor accuracy.
 
Ethang said:
my 2.0 Core will twitch the front sight constantly left when the sear breaks. It's not my trigger press because it will do the same thing shooting left-hand. The RMR makes it very noticeable, but you can observe it with the front sight. Still shoots great though so I don't worry about it.
Click to expand...

Well I like I said, if I make sure my shooting hand thumb does not contact the slide, the slide movement issue stops. I tested this at the range. I shot with my thumb contacting the slide and with it not contacting the slide. Group size and POI did not change. I guess it's safe to assume the bullet has left the barrel before the slide shifts.
 
alou said:
Are any of them 1.0s? The premature lockup issue was a problem with the 1.0s. Results in poor accuracy. I noticed it the first time I shot one. Groups were about twice what they should be. You can't "see" it. Apex discovered the problem with high speed cameras and noticed the slide goes back and unlocks the barrel before the bullet leaves the barrel, resulting in poor accuracy.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they are some lemons in the mix or guns with higher manufacturing tolerances once the tools start to wear out, but my 9 Pro has zero issues, and I mean 0. It's my can-do-it-all and goes-everywhere gun and probably the one gun I'll never sell!
 
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JJEH said:
I'm sure they are some lemons in the mix or guns with higher manufacturing tolerances once the tools start to wear out, but my 9 Pro has zero issues, and I mean 0. It's my can-do-it-all and goes-everywhere gun and probably the one gun I'll never sell!
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Was your’s a 1.0?
 
JJEH said:
It is a 1.0, yes.
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I’m jealous. Lol. I also had a 1.0 Pro and a 1.0 compact. My 1.0s were by far the least accurate pistols I had. Reliable, but inaccurate. My 2.0 is leaps and bounds more accurate than my 1.0s.
 
alou said:
I’m jealous. Lol. I also had a 1.0 Pro and a 1.0 compact. My 1.0s were by far the least accurate pistols I had. Reliable, but inaccurate. My 2.0 is leaps and bounds more accurate than my 1.0s.
Click to expand...

That's really weird. Granted, I did put in a Stormlake barrel but it really wasn't bad before.

All I can complain about was the white outer ring on the front sight, it fell out. So I put some Trijicon HD on it and the orange ring is just great. Really love this gun...

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Moving in from 25y to 20y, 15y and 10y. The closer I got the faster I shoot, all while moving with one reload. I love the M&P9 Pro, period. Still, I need to shoot more...

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JJEH said:
That's really weird. Granted, I did put in a Stormlake barrel but it really wasn't bad before.

All I can complain about was the white outer ring on the front sight, it fell out. So I put some Trijicon HD on it and the orange ring is just great. Really love this gun...

Moving in from 25y to 20y, 15y and 10y. The closer I got the faster I shoot, all while moving with one reload. I love the M&P9 Pro, period. Still, I need to shoot more...

I put a Stormlake barrel in my Pro too and it helped. With the 1.0 and a stock barrel at 15 yards the best I could do was a fist-sized group. With my 2.0 I get a half-dollar sized group at 15 yds.
Click to expand...
 
alou said:
Are any of them 1.0s? The premature lockup issue was a problem with the 1.0s. Results in poor accuracy. I noticed it the first time I shot one. Groups were about twice what they should be. You can't "see" it. Apex discovered the problem with high speed cameras and noticed the slide goes back and unlocks the barrel before the bullet leaves the barrel, resulting in poor accuracy.
Click to expand...
OK, you don't mean a premature lock up, but a premature unlock.

All mine are the original. The 2.0 versions are not available here.

I have no such accuracy issues. I've learned that most of the accuracy issues were do more to the shooter than the gun. The original M&P had some trigger issues that have been made better in the 2.0.
 
Rastoff said:
OK, you don't mean a premature lock up, but a premature unlock.

All mine are the original. The 2.0 versions are not available here.

I have no such accuracy issues. I've learned that most of the accuracy issues were do more to the shooter than the gun. The original M&P had some trigger issues that have been made better in the 2.0.
Click to expand...

Sorry you're correct, I meant problems with lockup where it prematurely unlocks. I really didn't notice any issues with the trigger in my 1.0, but then again my model was the Pro which had a nicer trigger. My universal criteria for overall mechanical accuracy (not factoring in the barrel) is for the sight picture to remain remain rock steady when I break the trigger during dry firing and the Pro fit that criteria. Typically that translates to silver dollar groups at 15 yds standing, unsupported. However, the accuracy of my Pro was still significantly subpar to every pistol I had, striker, DA/SA, etc.
 
alou said:
Typically that translates to silver dollar groups at 15 yds standing, unsupported.
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If you're shooting 1.5" groups at 15 yards, you're far better than most of us here. Definitely better than I am. The M&P might not be the right gun for you because it's generally not that accurate even from a bench vise.

Please join us in this little challenge: Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet It's super easy and lots of fun. I look forward to seeing a picture of your successful target.
 
Rastoff said:
If you're shooting 1.5" groups at 15 yards, you're far better than most of us here. Definitely better than I am. The M&P might not be the right gun for you because it's generally not that accurate even from a bench vise.

Please join us in this little challenge: Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet It's super easy and lots of fun. I look forward to seeing a picture of your successful target.
Click to expand...

Well full disclaimer, I installed an Apex trigger and a Leupold DPP triangle reticle. Once I got used to the trigger and sight, my last group before I ran out of ammo was half dollar size. I didn’t do that with iron sights! But judging from ur challenge pics, ur no slouch either!!!!

We are under hurricane advisory so it will be a bit before I can make it to the range again to try your challenge. But here is my qualification target shot with a Glock 23C. 60 rounds timed with target facing (all except one handed weak hand is from a triple retention holster).
3 yds: 6+6 with reload from the hip
5 yds: 6+6 with reload strong and weak handed
7 yds: 6+6 with reload
15 yds: 6+6 with reload
15 yds: 6+6 with reload from barricade
 

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Triggers and sights help, but equipment doesn't make the shooter. It's still up to you to hold everything right.

You're welcome to use that gun with that sight to try the challenge. Have fun with it.
 
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