Have about 60-70 rounds through the Smith and Wesson MP10. Rear takedown fits tight into upper. Showing some wear marks on charging handle and on the lower receiver compared to my AR15's and I have under 100 rounds in the MP10. Looking for comments from other MP10 owners on wear from charging handle. Wear seems to be making slight grove in the left grove as you look at photo.

Attached Images

Charging Handle marks.jpg (138.5 KB, 563 views)

Mines doing the same thing I don't have any rounds thru it get. Mine is getting scraped just from pulling the charging handle back When I first got it the charging handle was very hard to pull I've since taken it apart for inspection and cleaned and oiled everything, and it's gotten better. Id also like to know why it's getting scratched already I haven't even shot it yet.. I'll have a few rounds thru it by the end of the week..

Had some feeding issues the first time I shot it. I cleaned and oiled the hell out of it and the 2nd time it shot well with the Pmag had problems with the factory mag. The factory 10 round mag isn't as good as the Pmag in my opinion. Factory mag follower got stuck and had problems. I'm sending my rifle back in to Smith and Wesson to look at it for the marks and charging handle. Gun broker that I bought it from has been in business a long time says it doesn't look normal to him.

I just put 80 rounds thru mine yesterday, it performed flawlessly. It didn't look like the markings increased after shooting, during my inspection while cleaning it. It is still marked just like yours. If you could please, keep this thread updated with the response from S&W.
thanks,
James

I have those marks on every AR style Rifle I own. LMT, KA, LWRC, Sig, S/W

Metal to metal parts tend to show evidence of contact, oil it and shoot the beans out of it. Wear and use marks are a sign that you do not leave the rifle in the box and stare at it. When you have 500 rounds down the pipe take a look and see in there is unusual wear, but if it functions correctly then just shoot it!

Buy "The Raptor" ambi-dexterous charging handle and your problems will be forever solved.

Worth every dollar and then some.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...011154_d_10834

vfin

nice does that work with no modification?

YES YES YES Jwteknix !

vfin

S&W M&P10 .308 - SHOT news? - Page 18 - M4Carbine.net Forums
Post # 352
Also Post 149
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/6...10_today_.html


Not all some are haveing a fit Issue.

Like me. I have filed on mine and it still will not work. Oh well, another $100 paper weight.

Rainier Arm's will refund you if it will not work. Maybe not after the file came out though.

The Raptor charging handle is the mack daddy. But I have a machine shop to easily do the modifications. I let Rainier Arms know what I did to make it fit the M&P-10 correctly. It's a super simple production mod, but they would have to carry multiple part numbers.

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"I let Rainier Arms know what I did to make it fit the M&P-10 correctly."

You would absolutely make my day if you would let me know what you did to make it fit correctly!

I just spoke to Rainier this morning - and while polite, they weren't particularly helpful. Except to say "go look it up on the web."

I have a theory what might fix it, but before I get the Dremel out, I want to be sure.

There is not a lot to do, but it takes more than a dremmel.
The little nub on the top at the end opposite the latch does not need to be there.
The groove for the carrier key needs to be .025 to .03 deeper for a .050 wall, so the hole on the end needs to be elongated or raised .025 to .03 inch.
If you don't have a milling machine and a precision vise, I really don't know how you can do the mod.

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Reply appreciated.

I figured that the nub needed to go, but wasn't figuring on it being more than that.

Man, I really want to replace the stock handle (which I REALLY don't care much for) with the ultra-spiffy Raptor.

And nope - no milling machine or precision vise here...

However.... I see that you're in Orygun too. Any chance you might want to take on a small project - for a fee of course?

Hmmm. Give me a ring and we can talk about it.
go to Tacticool22.com - Parts, Tools, Accessories, and Resources for 22 Caliber Firearms to find the number.

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Why can't these modifications be done with files or dremel?
This looks like one of those jobs that could be done and over with by the time I got things set up in a mill. Mills and precision vises are great, but when I worked as a gunsmith, many times it was much quicker/efficient to use a file or dremel for jobs like these. Leonard Bull, my "Limey" Bench Metal instructor, proved that many times in class, and it proved to be true in the real world gun shop also.
Please explain more clearly why a mill and precision vise is needed.

prairie. If you have the skills and patience you could make an AR bolt with a dremmel.
The first photon micro light was carved with a dremmel by a jeweler.
My "go to" is precision machinery since that is how I have made most everything since 1981. I have dremmels, power files, micro hone machines and all kinds of other goodness at my disposal, so I tend to forget there are other ways of going about modifications.
Removing the nub is a straight forward no brainer that you can do with a file.
The end hole is pretty simple too. You just need to measure your final thickness and / or make sure it has the right clearance by sending the bolt and bolt carrier home by hand.
The channel is the toughy. It's almost 6 inches long and needs .03 inch taken out. It is difficult to grind out that much material over that distance and keep it flat. You can go a little deeper, but not too deep because the handle will become weaker or to the extreme, you could cut through the channel.
The gas key is 1/4" in diameter and the channel is just over 19/64 wide.
Good luck and post some pics.

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Tacticool,
I was getting ready to update my previous post when I saw you had replied. Thanks for your clarification of what needs to be done.
I did not understand that you meant the whole length of the channel needed to be deepened. Thought you were just referring to the raised area of the channel at the front, and the nub on top. It took my son about 5 minutes of filing to remove the raised areas on top of the channel hole and nub on top. Then it was apparent that the whole channel needed clearancing.
Have reread your post several times before and after modifying our handle, and still would not have figured that out without doing our own handle. Your post made it sound like just the hole at the end needed relieving, and the nub on top removed, nothing else. Which is what several others have done with success.
A friend of mine has a mill and will see if he can cut the channel out for me next week.
What is confusing is how the fit of Raptor handles is so different for several S&W M&P10's. M&P10 Owners on this and other forums only need to just remove the nub on top at the front, or just remove the step in the hole at the front. Most need to do both. Mine is like yours that needs relieving the whole length of the channel. Even a very few have had them drop in and work right out of the package, which doesn't seem possible. Has there been a change in design or production of Raptor Ambidextrous Charging Handle, with both old and new designs still in the distribution system?

Just a thought guys - what about using a proper size (or as close as possible) chainsaw file to clearance the channel?

Possible, as Tacticool stated, but difficult, even for those that use files on a daily basis. A rattail file may work better than a chainsaw file.
I have over 50 files, all slightly different, that are used for specific situations. My college bench metal class instructor, mentioned previously, had well over 150 files in his tool box at school. At home he had even more files, I would guess he had 300-400 files total, all slightly different. He was a master at making any gun part from scratch, even if it was missing and he had to invent/design the part. He mostly used bench tools and methods instead of machine tools. He learned his skill in England as an apprentice in a shop who did piece work for Holland & Holland and other English arms makers.

Tacticool, If I purchase a charging handle and it doesn't fit, will you be willing to modify it for a small fee?
Thanks James

James. I would, but machine time is expensive and it would run almost as much to modify the charging handle as it cost to buy. They know what changes need to be made and I am hopeful they will make some M&P-10 specific ones soon.
The more people that let them know they would be willing to do an exchange, the more likely they will get on it.
The program changes are super simple. There just needs to be enough demand for them to make a bunch of stock.

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Finally!

Oh happy day - it works!

The problem is that the channel in the MP10 charging handle is much deeper than the Channel in the Raptor. All other dimensions (except for that nub at the end) appear to be the same for all practical purposes.

And here's all it took for me to do it....

(Warning: to find anybody less mechanically capable than me you'd have to advertise on the Internet. So if I can do it, I can't imagine who couldn't - BUT, there definitely is the potential to mess up your expensive new non-fitting Raptor charging handle.)

1. - Dremel tool
2. - Dremel bit #100 (it has a round 1/4" diameter head)
3. - Patience
4. - Patience
5. - See number 4 & 5 - repeatedly

First - I removed the nub on top of the charging handle using a small file.

Second - I took the Dremel and "slowly" proceeded to deepen the channel in the charging handle from the front end (end near the barrel) for a length of about 4" or so with the charging handle secured in a vise.

Third - I put the charging handle and bolt back in the upper and checked to see if I was making any progress. Still binding? Back to the vise.

Fourth - I repeated the second and third steps over and over and over and over again. There's where the patience comes in.

I was more concerned about ruining the new charging handle than I was with getting the job done quickly. Likely anybody else could have done it faster, but it works and that was the goal. YMMV.

Now it's what I wanted in the first place.

Rainier should either make one of these specifically for the MP10 (like Tacticool has suggested), or state on their website that it probably won't work without modification.

meef. Great job. I knew you would be able to do it.
I forget, did you mention patience anywhere in your post?

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hey guys emailed rainier and this was their reply

Hi,

I'm sorry but we won't be making one specifically for the M&P10. Quite possibly in the future we might redesign it so it'll compatible with that platform also, but right now it is not in the works.

David K
Rainier Arms, LLC - "Taking the AR15 to new Heights™"
2504 Auburn Way N. Auburn, WA 98002
P.253.218.2999 / F.253.218.2998
Rainier Arms™ | Specialist in High End AR15s/M16s,Stocks,Grips,Parts,Accessories & much more

On 10/20/2013 5:58 PM, James Audenried wrote:

Hey man,
Interested in a raptor ambi charging handle for my S&W M&P-10, but have heard of fitment issues for the 7.62 handle. I was wondering if you guys will be making a M&P specific charging handle.
Thanks a lot,
James Audenried

Hey guys,

I ordered a Raptor 7.62 and will be modifying it myself. I am a German Tool & Die Maker and have access to all types of machines. I am willing to do the mods for anyone for a reasonable fee. I cannot give a quote until I do the mods to mine so I can estimate the time.

meef,
this is the route we will probably take. Thought I had a couple of local avenues for the machine tool route, but neither looks like it will pan out.
My son thought this would be the easiest route anyway. I'm trying to teach him to get things done with the resources at hand, instead of the ideal/perfect route that is easy. Learning to improvise and adapt is much more a useful life skill than having things handed to you.
He is in Civil Air Patrol, and that has been a huge plus for his life and ours. CAP teaches discipline, respect, and
responsibility, and has influenced the way my son looks at things, mainly for the better.

prairie. Civil Air Patrol is a fantastic organization.
I was a member for a few years and it helped cement my desire to join the Air Force.

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I finally modified my raptor charging handle today. I did the modifications on a manual milling machine. There is 3 different set-ups involved. Mine works great. I would do the modifications for anyone that is willing to ship to me for $55+ shipping.

Wonder why mine worked right out of the Package...

I tried mine before modifying it. It did not fit... I had to machine .030 from the channel, mill the pad off the top, elongate the hole upward .030. Now it fits and works well.

You guys must have a different M&P10 than I do, cause the Raptor Charging Handle I bought works flawlessly as is.

vfin

What is the date on your MP10 because mine worked also.

how do you know the date?

The date should be on the box.

What box?
Could there be bootleg Raptor ambi charging handles on the market?
Our 5.56 and 7.62 Raptor ambi charging handles came in a plain plastic zip lock bags, with no instructions or literature. They were purchased from reputable, but different suppliers.
The 5.56 dropped in and worked fine, but the 7.62 needs modifications as discussed earlier in this thread.

Charging handle wear marks on a lower are akin to cylinder turn marks on a revolver. It's either from use or handling, but either way, it isn't hurting anything.

Unless it's a high dollar, one-off and/or irreplaceable firearm, it's not worth fretting over.

I was asking Vfin what the production date on his Gun/Box, because he said his Raptor worked as did mine. Maybe there was a change in the upper.
And I fixed the Question. Sorry wasnt very clear.

NO DATE ON THE BOX (or anywhere else) Trotter.

vfin

Things got busy around here, and the Raptor Ambi charging handle fitment got shoved to the back burner for a while.
My hometown gunsmith, after ordering the proper ball endmill, deepened the channel by .008" for a proper fit and function. By the way it fit and the measurements I took before milling it out, I was guessing .10" to .012" would be enough. If he would have taken out the .025" to .030" indicated above, that would have made the remaining area very thin and weak.
I just don't understand how the fit of the 7.62 Raptor Ambi. charging handles can vary so widely from one rifle to the next.
My brother has a M&P10 on the way, and it will be interesting to see how our modified handle fits it. Really wish we would have waited to see how an unmodified handle fit.

I just got my 7.62 Raptor in the mail Saturday. I tried to fit it today and it binds. The binding occurs when trying to close the bolt, but not until the bolt is 3/4 of the way closed. On mine it really looks like if I took off the nib on top it would clear enough to function. I haven't decided if I want to cut it and hope it works or just send it back to Rainier. I purchased my M&P-10 in July 2013, not sure what the production date is.

FYI, I have purchased several 5.56 Rainier Raptor handles from Amazon vendors, DSG, and Rainier themselves. All came in non descript plastic bags except a couple that I purchased directly from Rainier in September 2013 that came in retail plastic packaging. The 7.62 I just purchased directly from Rainier came in a non descript plastic bag. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a copy out there, but the five 5.56 units I have are identical.

BroncoAZ. If you have the bolt locked back and you try to pull the charging handle back, you should see the same binding issue.
There are some knockoffs, but Rainier is dealing with them so we consumers will not have to question if we are getting the real thing or not.

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I don't think it is possible to get the rifle reassembled with the binding it has now, without significantly forcing it I could not get the bolt to go into battery so I could pin the upper in place.

Thanks

I got my Raptor @ Primary Arms a couple of weeks ago for about $25 off ($69?) and tried to assemble the gun today with no joy.
I found scuffing of the phosphate coating on top of the gas key from my (carefully) try and try, and trying again to lube and fit it together.
I called Ranier, and was left with no choice but to leave a message "Please get in touch...". I ended up calling them back since I didn't want to see the day go past with no response from them.
They said- "Oh yeah, there's a string of threads (bad pun,huh) about fitment issues for S&Ws and some other LR308 style guns out there, If you'd rather, send it back to us and we'll refund your purchase price (no mention about my shipping,ect. though) -or- you could grind on it to make it fit, but, if you touch it with a cutting tool we won't even consider warranty coverage of the handle....."
I passed up the latest ambi handle by Phase 5 (who assured me that thiers would work without problem) because I've been acheing for the Raptor since they were introduced (but just NEVER available for .308) and pounced on the heavily discounted specimen I ended up with.
Now I'm stuck either spending treasure for someone else to mill it or a fair amount of personal effort to get it to work in my gun.
Does anyone out there think that the clearance problem could be (largely?) overcome by polishing off the top of the gas key instead of trying to deepen the channel of the Raptor? I'm tempted to try that route first, before I go hogging out the groove on a comparatively thin aluminum charging handle.....

Hey guys,
I bit the bullet and bought the raptor. When I first put it in dry, it binded, lubed it up and worked it in, I charged the handle till it moved almost freely took it out cleaned and relubbed. Found the nipple on the top front rubbing, filed the nipple off, cleaned and relubbed, it works great, no need to deepen the valley. Awesome handle, million times better then stock, if you have a scope its a must.
In all I just chopped the nipple off the top, lubed and cleaned it a few times and that's it. So don't go strait away grinding stuff, I really didn't even have to cut the nipple off but, it did help it move easier..
Hope this helps,
James