M&P Sport and EOTech

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RobbW

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I'm ready to put an electronic sight on my Sport. I've shot my brother's EOTech and like it a lot. I've also read the holo-sights work better for shooting with glasses than the red dots because the hologram creates the illusion of being "out there" with the target. Over the next 1-2 years I expect to be into glasses.

So I'm turning to you experts. What configuration? I know I want the CR123 transverse battery and don't need NV-compatible. 1913 Picatinny rail, right? Are side or rear buttons best?

I see XPS2 or EXPS2 look kind of ballpark what I want. The EX has 7mm risers. What do you prefer and why the choice? Quick release or single screw? Is the screw that much more work/trouble?

What reticle? I assume the centered dot is mostly for business as a defense gun, but there is a 2-dot and a few multi-dot options. Right now I'm building mostly for a defense gun, but I do enjoying shooting out to 300 yards on my range with iron sights (the limit of the range), so I could see having a use for more than one dot. Appropriately complicated, but not needless complicated is my goal, if you understand that. lol

Thanks in advance.
 
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Love my EoTech 512

On My Bushmaster C15... which is My carry Rifle when Im alone in the desert trapsing off 300yds ta set a target;)

Thing is Great... I Like a Halo/Reflex much better than red Dots

Target shooting at 200yds+ is tuff... I mean even a 1moe dot is HUGE at 300yds... that said the 5moe circle will get ya close and the dot is Dead on... assuming YOU are...LOL

getting a 5x magnifier would be perfect.. another option... is a Quick release Scope/Glass for 300yds.... I can take my Eotech off and on and Hardly needs any re-sight... meaning I DONT re-sight it when i do...

used ta swap mine off and on my Sport.. but once i got the Rail Fixed on my Bushy Carbon 15... thats where it stays for under 100yd Playing.. and the Sport has a 6-24 scope for Reaching out and Touching Something:D

Anyways hope this helps
 
RobbW said:
I'm ready to put an electronic sight on my Sport. I've shot my brother's EOTech and like it a lot. I've also read the holo-sights work better for shooting with glasses than the red dots because the hologram creates the illusion of being "out there" with the target. Over the next 1-2 years I expect to be into glasses.

I run the XPS2-0 on my M4. The beautiful simplicity of this sight is the "floating" reticle. I'm right-handed, left eye dominant. The Eotech couldn't care less which eye is looking through it. It superimposes the reticle on the target and that's where the projectile is headed. When you change to glasses, just be aware that the reticle may become clearer or a bit "fuzzy" depending you on you prescription.

So I'm turning to you experts. What configuration? I know I want the CR123 transverse battery and don't need NV-compatible. 1913 Picatinny rail, right? Are side or rear buttons best?

As stated I run the XPS2-0 with the rear mounted buttons. Battery life is great and I carry spare batteries in my Vltor storage tubes. The transverse models take up less rail space and yes, the sight is made for a 1913 Picatinny rail. When you mount it, make sure that you slide the sight all the way back into the rail notches in your chosen mounting position. This will prevent any movement under recoil. I use the screw to lock mine in. Eotech's instructions say not to use Locktite (or a thread locker) but trust me on this. Use blue Locktite. If you plan on adding a magnifier in the future, get a model that uses side buttons.

I see XPS2 or EXPS2 look kind of ballpark what I want. The EX has 7mm risers. What do you prefer and why the choice? Quick release or single screw? Is the screw that much more work/trouble?

I've mounted mine directly to the flat top Picatinny rail, using no risers. I prefer this way due to having a folding front and rear sight on my M4. This way I don't have to change my cheek-to-stock-weld when shooting and with the sights flipped up it gives me a perfect co-witness, allowing me to randomly check the reticle to front sight relationship, an ad hoc way for checking any movement of the sight. I find the screw to be a non-issue and the reason I chose it was that it interferes less than the quick-release lever when I carry the weapon slung. At times the lever would catch on gear. Oh - and make sure to mark or memorize the T-slot on the rail where you mounted it.

What reticle? I assume the centered dot is mostly for business as a defense gun, but there is a 2-dot and a few multi-dot options. Right now I'm building mostly for a defense gun, but I do enjoying shooting out to 300 yards on my range with iron sights (the limit of the range), so I could see having a use for more than one dot. Appropriately complicated, but not needless complicated is my goal, if you understand that. lol

The XPS2-0 uses the single "circle/dot" reticle. It makes for a clean sight picture. For my shooting needs I find this to be ideal for my intended purpose. Less clutter and a fast pick-up.

One thing I have learned is that whenever I am using the sight is to set the reticle intensity to the lowest possible setting where I can see the dot. This forces me to focus on the target instead of the sight itself.

Here's a few photos of my M4 - Wicked Windy - with the XPS2-0 mounted:

100_3850.jpg


100_3867-1_zps7336ee2f.jpg



Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Whatever model you finally settle on, you will come to appreciate this sight.
 
I wear continuous focus glasses and am very pleased with the performance of my AimPoint Pro on top of my S&W Sport. Even the budget priced BSA red dot on my Ruger 10/22 works great with my glasses.
 
I used to run an Ultradot Pan AV on my Sport. It is a holographic with a lifetime warranty. Ultradot makes a few different holo's and red dots, but I really liked the reticule options on the sight. It co-witnessed perfectly. When I started prairie dog hunting with my rifle I needed more magnification so I gave it to my little brother who mounted it on his AR15A3. He is a LEO and uses it for his tactical rifle. It works great for him.
 
I took my EOTech 516.A65 w/3x mag off my Sport and mounted it on my 15 T and put my scope back on the Sport. Liked the fold down sights with the EO on the T better.
 
When you mount it, make sure that you slide the sight all the way back into the rail notches in your chosen mounting position. This will prevent any movement under recoil.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you want the optic pushed all the way forward in the slots when you tighten it down?

When the rifle fires, the recoil impulse will push the receiver to the rear....literally trying to slide rearward and out from under an optic if the optic were mounted very loosely. The point being though that the optic, due to its own mass, would want to remain motionless while the receiver moves to the rear....in effect, causing the front edge of the rail slots to bear on the cross pins of the optic's mount and not the rear edge as you suggest.

If it doesn't work that way, I've been mounting picatinny railed optics incorrectly for a long, long time....but I honestly don't believe I have.
 
Thank you for all the well-thought out, well reasoned advice. I really appreciate all the info you've shared--and thanks for the great pics, JWS3!

JWS3: you say the XPS2 (no riser, screw mount) co-witnesses with your iron sights. The EOTech site says the EXPS2 (7mm riser, QR lever) offers "iron sight access". Is this the same thing, or what am I missing? Which will work with the Sport?

To ALL: Do I have to remove the front sight or get a fold-down front sight to get this to work with the EOTech? If I remove the front site and later reinstall it, will it index back into place or is it a hassle to get it back?
 
arizona98tj said:
Wouldn't you want the optic pushed all the way forward in the slots when you tighten it down?

When the rifle fires, the recoil impulse will push the receiver to the rear....literally trying to slide rearward and out from under an optic if the optic were mounted very loosely. The point being though that the optic, due to its own mass, would want to remain motionless while the receiver moves to the rear....in effect, causing the front edge of the rail slots to bear on the cross pins of the optic's mount and not the rear edge as you suggest.

If it doesn't work that way, I've been mounting picatinny railed optics incorrectly for a long, long time....but I honestly don't believe I have.
Click to expand...

Mounting the optic in a forward rail notch was my first thought too. Initially I followed the instructions verbatim. However, a bit of research and some real-world testing, convinced me otherwise.

Recoil from a 5x56 x 45 mm is mostly soaked up in the receiver extension via the buffer and spring. It is the forward motion of the bolt carrier and locking into the barrel extension that has the "jarring" effect on the sight.

The Eotech instructions that came with my sight are silent on just where to place it in the Picatinny grooves. So, I first mounted it fully forward, tightened the screw and then gave it the additional quarter-turn as stated in the instruction manual.

After about firing 30 rounds, I noticed that my groups were opening up and were starting to wander over the target. I cleared the weapon and investigated. Bigger than Stuttgart, the optic was loose. It slid around and moved from side-to-side.

I wasted a number of rounds in this manner. Never again. After that it was rear-ward in the mount and coated with Blue Loctite.

Since mounting it in this way, I've never had a problem with it shifting or losing it's zero. That was three years ago.
 
RobbW said:
Thank you for all the well-thought out, well reasoned advice. I really appreciate all the info you've shared--and thanks for the great pics, JWS3!

JWS3: you say the XPS2 (no riser, screw mount) co-witnesses with your iron sights. The EOTech site says the EXPS2 (7mm riser, QR lever) offers "iron sight access". Is this the same thing, or what am I missing? Which will work with the Sport?

To ALL: Do I have to remove the front sight or get a fold-down front sight to get this to work with the EOTech? If I remove the front site and later reinstall it, will it index back into place or is it a hassle to get it back?
Click to expand...


You're welcome, Robb. Glad to assist.

The way mine is set up in my previous post photos gives me what is known as an Absolute Co-Witness. When I flip up my sights, and have the Eotech operating, the reticle will be exactly on my front sight.

By using a 7 mm riser rail with your Eotech mounted, when you look through it, you'll see your front sight assembly in the lower third of the sight. That's called a "Lower Third Co-Witness."

Here's an example:

cowit1-1_zpsea1ab141.jpg


Either one will work with your AR. It's just a matter of personal preference.

No, you don't have to remove the front sight at all. And there's no need in buying a fold-down front sight...unless you find that you aren't comfortable using the front sight assembly that came with your AR. In other words, if you are bothered by the front sight "always being there" when you are using the Eotech, it can be replaced. However, your FSB is pinned in and can be a bear to remove. Best left to a gunsmith. And once you have the pins out, you cannot re-use them should you decide to put the original sight back on.

The U.S. military uses the Eotech (and other red dots) on their M4's with the stock FSB to great effect.
 
Last edited:
Thanks JWS3--that really helps. I hadn't known that. I'll have to sleep on this one. I think I prefer the middle, unless I remove the front iron sight completely. Now I wish the Sport had come with a collapsible front sight. I do love my 5R barrel though.
 
Again, you are welcome, Robb.

I wish you luck all the best in finding what works for you and your rifle.

Once you get the sight you want, get it mounted and zeroed, you will have fun with it. And that is a large part of shooting; Having fun.
 
JWS3,
Apparently on a AR platform shooting .223, it makes little difference. Since I've had no issues and never use loctite, and you did but got it resolved mounting at the rear of the rail slot using loctite, it would seem that either way works.

I have a FNH FNAR (.308 Win). What is your opinion regarding where in the slots that optic mount should bear?
 
arizona98tj said:
JWS3,
Apparently on a AR platform shooting .223, it makes little difference. Since I've had no issues and never use loctite, and you did but got it resolved mounting at the rear of the rail slot using loctite, it would seem that either way works.

I have a FNH FNAR (.308 Win). What is your opinion regarding where in the slots that optic mount should bear?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the way I mounted it works for me. I suppose it's only one of many ways that work. I'm always open to new ways - that's how we all learn - so when I find a better way to achieve better results, I tend to adopt it.

The FNAR is a good-looking rifle. FNH produces really solid weapons. The only experience I have had with FNH's firearms were back in my Army days and were with the M240 co-axially mounted tank machine guns. 7.62mm (.308 Winchester).

The .308 has a stronger recoil and the FNAR platform appears to use a non-buffered stock. Recoil would be harder on the optic by the design of the weapon.

I'd try mounting it at first as you'd suggested earlier in the forward portion of the rail, use the rifle and monitor the results. If groups are straying, then try the rear mount option and again, monitor the groups.

I just did some internet searching and see that the Eotech Magnifiers now come from the factory with a tube of Loctite included. Don't know if they'll be including or have it included already with the HWS optics though.

On a side-note, I guess you could call FNH and/or the manufacturer of your optic and ask them what they recommend as well.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I just purchased the EOTech EXPS2. It's the single dot on 7mm risers. I decided I wanted the less-cluttered sight picture, and the risers will also allow me to hold over for distance shooting without having to remove the front sight. The downside is that the riser version comes with a quick release, and I'd have preferred not to have the lever. But on the other hand I can switch it off more easily to occasionally mount a scope for testing ammunition groups.

Can't wait to get it installed and sighted in at the range!!
 
Has anyone looked at the EOTech CQB T-Dot reticule offered by Brownells? It has an extra aiming point for 7 yards. Not sure why I would need that unless I was trying to thread a needle.
 
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