Whoa, friendly fire.... my comment was a joke, sarcasm...

You are doing just fine... You got the boy outdoors and he harvested a legal deer. Good job dad!

+1 for anything cor-bon! velocity is king after all...

Congratulations on safely launching your son into shooting sports, and deer hunting. Box says .224 1-8 twist. SWIFT SCIROCCO II BONDED Polymer Tip / Boat Tail Spitzer 75 grains does the trick in Carolina. Available MIDWAY ships 10/6.
Swift Scirocco 2 Bullets 22 Cal (224 Diameter) 75 Grain Bonded Spitzer

EOTECH lights 'em up, and as always, make sure you have margins around the bullet path in the woods/brush to ensure a good shot placement.

I don't see anything wrong with taking a young one. I'm not a trophy hunter, I'm a meat hunter. Younger=tender and scrum-diddly-umpsious.

Yeah, I figured

I hunt with a handgun, killing animals up to 700 lbs with them. Placement, penetration, bullet performance. I don't snipe humans with a .223 but they seem to work, even thought the bullet self distructs in many cases from reports. A deer shot in the CNS by a .223 should drop to the shot. Heart-lung shot deer door run a bit at times. My anemic handguns haven't let one run over 50 yards. I like the Nosler Partitions and Barnes X bullets. The NPs come apart even in large calibers and the Barnes X bullets make two holes. I have some 60 grain Federal NPs in 223 and I was going to let my middle son, a little recoil shy, use them. I've shot those tiny Texas deer and similar ones in Tennessee. All big game animals hunted hard and taken cleanly are trophies and a contribution to game management. On a local hunt I use guns I wouldn't use on a hunt of a lifetime, passing up inappropriate shots for the cartridge chosen. The original poster gets my respect for doing his research and then considering his options. I need to get my semiauto rifles out and get some hunting in with them. Problem is the list of firearms and proposed ammo is long I want to try and the time is short, mostly weekends during hunting season. Game preserves help ranchers and farmers and offer a more controlled environment for a first attempt with a new type of weapon. I've had good luck in finding places, despite fewer and fewer places to hunt. Use premium bullets, place the shot well, get out your knife.

The whitetails here at the foot of the Big Horn Mountains, at least the ones in my back yard, are small and I shoot one or two each year. Seems fair since they eat my bushes and rub on my trees. Wyoming has legalized the .223 (60 gr bullet min.) for deer and I will shoot one this year with my AR 15 and 69 gr hollow points with little trepidation. For larger deer and in particular big Mulies, not so much. I hit a 250 lb Mulie a couple years back with a 150 gr .308 Power Max right in the boiler room and it just hunched up and kept on going. The next round up in my DPMS LR .308 was a Barnes 130 gr and it anchored the critter with an offside broken shoulder. The Power Max did not exit on the same kind of angling shot. Range was 100 to 150 first to second shot. The deer was dead but did not know it after the first shot but a little further and he would have been down in a deep coulee so deep I would have needed to bring my frying pan and just eat him down there. Consider the potential size of the game and potential situation, and never go under gunned is my motto.

Why not buy a 6.8mmSPC upper.

6.8 uses common 90-130gr .270 bullets

I really like the SIERRA 110gr PRO-HUNTER bullet with H322 powder.

This is my woods rifle, perfect for deer.
Wilson combat lightweight 16" middy barrel
PRI carbon fiber handgard
JP trigger
AIMPOINT/LARUE

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Hate? No.
If you're going to teach your child to hunt, you should also teach them to wait for the right animal and the right shot.
Killing the small/young ones hurts the deer population more than killing the adults that have already procreated.

Deer that small aren't even worth the processing fee.
Doe days in GA have been limited because of the number of young deer killed by coyotes. The effect on the population is not lessened by irresponsible hunters doing the same thing.
Passing on tiny animals and only killing mature adults is better than teaching our children that it's okay to kill any deer they see.
Waiting for the right deer is much better than the instant gratification of letting them do whatever they want.

450 pounds is not a large hog in GA. We have a problem with them here.
They are not game animals. They are an invasive species.
That said, I kill them as humanely as possible. I don't even want a pest to suffer.

Hate? No. No hate. Just responsibility. I've seen what happens to the deer population when people in the hunting club allow deer of any size to be killed. After a couple of seasons of people shooting a bunch of dog-sized deer, there aren't many adults left in the area. Those dog-sized adolescents have to grow up to become adults worthy of shooting/processing/eating.

Sure is a fair bit of vitriol coming from the proponents of using too little gun, or shooting too-small deer.
So, who really hates?

As far as "everything being better in GA", I'm not getting into that urinating competition with you, but I'm glad you don't live here and I wouldn't live in FL on a dare.
Our hogs are bigger, our deer are bigger, our bears are bigger, and I can legally own shotgun specialty ammo here (felony in FL).

FL has it's pluses, but I'm not a beach or theme park person.

Our coyotes are bigger than out west, but that's pretty consistent with all states east of the MS river. More food equals bigger animals.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

This seems very interesting to me. The 6.8 cartridges fit in the standard AR-15 magazines, all you need is the different upper? Or can you just change only the barrel and everything else is compatible? Any suggestions on where I can find a good value barrel?

What are the ballistics like? How would it compare to my .270? I assume it would be quite a bit slower.

Again, thanks everyone for your input.

Different bolt, barrel and magazines.

Lots of info here...
Home of the 6.8 SPC - 68forums.com

SSA | Ballistics

carefully working up loads, you can push a 110gr 270 bullet to about 2650-2700fps.

plenty for whitetail deer

Most AR15 companys are making 6.8 uppers, make sure you get the SPC-II chamber and 1:11 twist.

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That deer is a spike. He doesn't need to "grow up", he needs to be taken out of the herd.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publicat...w7000_0827.pdf

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publicat...w7000_0247.pdf



I'll go ahead and be the one to call BS on this... 450 lbs for a wild hog is a large hog. Not saying that they don't get that big or bigger, but that is near the top of the scale for the average hog...

http://feralhogs.tamu.edu/files/2010...in-Georgia.pdf
"100 to 500+ pounds. Very large hogs (500+ pounds)
are generally from domestic stock. "


Again, it is a spike. See above.


I don't think having larger animals of an invasive species that are extremely destructive to agriculture, property, and native wildlife habitat is something to brag about.

I wouldn't waste your breath, some just do not or will not ever understand how things work. I ran a deer ranch for a number of years down in Texas and genetics and the culling of deer was always part of a good herd.

AR15 yes, but not with a 5.56/.223. I bought a CMMC .300 Blackout upper and use 125 grain Hornadys. Didn't connect last year but if I do this year I will post results.

Some misguided individuals still buy limited issue antlerless licenses and throw them away so others can't use them. Then they complain about no big bucks.

I'm betting you don't have kids. Computers and smart phones have modern children all about instant gratification.

If they don't get a kill soon after they start deer hunting, they aren't going to continue to do it. The majority of the kids I have seen may try a second year, but they won't do it a third if they don't get a kill.

If they can't brag about it to their friends on Facebook, it's not going to be worth doing.

My friends land -- he was good with it. For the same reasons as mentioned above

When I get some personal issues taken care of I'll be looking into a 6.8 or a 7.62/.308

For now we'll use what we got

Thanks all

I started hunting with a .223 just to see how well it performed for myself. started with 60gr Nosler Partitions out of a 20" 1-7 twist barrel. Chest shots worked about like the usual .308 rounds. Nothing moved far after being hit, 50yds at most. Ok, then.

Then transitioned to a 55gr Sierra out of a 1-12"twist 20" barrel. Ummm, WOW! Best deer stopper ever! Nothing hit in the chest out to 100yds has taken another step. Boomflop. Often breaks multiple ribs on the entry side. Usually penetrates clean through, but if the jacket separates it has been found stuck on the far side ribs, nicely expanded, BTW. Cores always go through.

Went a little far forward on this buck and missed the chest cavity at what turned out to be ~150yds. He still didn't go far.


circa 2008


Having been well pleased with the 20" barreled rifles' performances, I have since tested some 16" rifle/load combos. 1-7 twist is all I have, so have been reluctant to use the 55gr bullet in them. But Partitions are still fine. As well, the factory 64 Winchester PP load. Again, about like using a .308. Broke all sorts of shoulder bones at entry with that bullet on one smallish deer, but penetration was still good enough to exit the animal.


Shoulder bone frags circa 2010, 64gr WW PP

Most recent example, made a rearward to forward shot with the "ol' favorite" 55gr/20". Not a big deer this time but broke ribs on the near side and shattered the far upper front leg bone near the shoulder joint! Bullet exited. Deer went nowhere...

Exit wound side:

from 2012

Anymore the first thing I'll pick to take to the woods is a 20" barreled AR with those 55gr bullets. Have put together a lighter upper for this year. No iron sights this time, just a tiny ACOG. (I hunt on the ground 95% of the time. No stands, just creeping about or sitting. No beanfields.)

If you can put an appropriately constructed bullet in the chest cavity at distances less than 200yards, then you should have no problem taking deer..

Took a look at the Wilson Combat 6.8 uppers.

Holy cats $1,250. I could by two M&P sports for that much. I think I'd be more interested in building a new upper.

What is the difference between the SPC II chamber and the ARP chamber? Looks like I can get a barrel for a little better than $200.

Any sources for some of the parts needed? Bolt, mags, barrels?

I'll bet arrows are though, makes perfect sense......

If I recall correctly, the bolt is the same as the 556. Uses the same brass, just the neck is stretched open to .270. Magazines are the same, you only need a different follower, which is a whopping $4-6 ea. Barrels bolt right in like any standard 556 barrel, gas length tubes are equal.

I like the 6.8spc. Think of it as an AK round shoved into an AR. Better hit authority, less wind deflection, but a little slower moving bullet.

6.8 has a different bolt.
the carrier is the same

barrel, bolt and magazine are different




STAG ARMS usually has quality affordable bolts in stock.

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A well placed small caliber is better than a misplaced large caliber. I use a 62 gr. BTSP

My friend at work lets his young daughter use a Mossberg MVP I think its called. She shoots 55gr Soft Points and the deer never runs more than 40yds. Shoots right behind the shoulder.

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Back to post # 25: Why can you not turn down the scope to 3, 2.5? If it was on 5x is that the bottom? For less than 50$ you can buy a 3x9x40, put it on the 270 and not have a problem. Or buy a 300 blackout upper with or with out a BCG, use mags and BCG from your AR.
Jaymo/Vinney47: 308 Nosler Ballistic tip, 235 yds, 2 doe, consecutive days) went through both lungs , and they ran, 30-40 yds only but I had to use a handgun to kill them. Why did they punch right through?? The perfect range for poor performance, they are now used on paper..
Michigan Scott: You are hunting the wrong places! Hunting farmland in Pa ( Bucks County) to big woods ( Potter co) never shot a buck or doe that dressed over 150. First doe outside of cheboygan dressed 156 on certified scales, first buck in the UP was 187 certified scales in Mi Commemorative Bucks. SPIKES? We do not shoot 2 1/2 yr old 8's with 17" spreads, (our choice), If you look at research Dr deer (Kroll) and others you will find that all things being equal, ( nutrition,water, habitat,protection) you will find that they could not determine which spike would grow up to be 8-12 points or become an older bigger spike. I do know that we do not take them unless we have a new hunter ( first time ) then we give the Mulligan and let them take whatever. We hunt on our property that is not fenced, so it depends on other hunters also. I wish one and all a great Deer season with bow,handgun,rifle, muzzle loader. Be Safe,

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This is just my 2 cents on the subject. If you are going to use a .223 round for deer hunting, get the heaviest soft point bullet you can get. A deer is at the upper limit of what the round can handle ethically. I would recommend going with a round more suitable for the game you are looking to go after. Typically, .30 caliber rounds tend to be the favorite, .30-30, .308, 30-06, .303, etc. You want a round that will quickly kill your game, not something that will allow them to run for hundreds of yards and then die a slow death. Then you have to search for it and hope you find it. The faster it drops, the better for you and the deer. Take what you will from it and good luck.

Like I posted way up earlier in this thread, I started my daughter with a little 223 carbine. Never once did we have to track a deer hundreds of yards. Most in fact dropped and died within 50 yards and about half dropped in their tracks!
Have you ever shot a deer with a 223, or are these scenarios just what you think would happen?

I shot a buck last week with a 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip in a .308W case at a lasered 228 yards. He went about 100 yards but did leave a very easy to follow blood trail. Have shot several other deer with 150gr NBTs with good results, but still prefer the little.223 55gr Sierras for most of my rifle hunting.

Not from personal experience and I did make pains to note this was a personal opinion. Most hunting magazines shy away from a .223 for deer hunting. Some even from a .243. Me personally, since I usually hunt in the woods, a .30-30 lever action with iron sights works just fine and PA doesn't allow semi-autos for deer hunting. It has to be a pump, lever, bolt or single shot rifle.

Friend of mine shot a deer with that round a couple of years ago. He found a wee bit of lung, but we searched for hours and never found a blood trail or deer. I think it is another round that needs bullets specifically tailored for the task at hand to have best results. And pushed as hard as it will go.

Would not shoot a deer with a 5.56/.223 unless I really needed the meat and it was the only thing available.

Again, thanks for everyone's input. I really like the idea of getting a 6.8 SPC upper for the M&P 15 however, I don't think I want to drop the $$$ just now.

I just sighted in my Savage .270 bolt rifle with the Barnes TTSX and was very please to create a half inch group. I'll be using that rifle again this year and will sit with the scope dialed back to 3x. If there is one that is further out I can always dial her up.

I've never taken a semi auto to hunt with, heck I rarely take a rifle even..handguns baby, hand guns!!

Be aware: In some states it's illegal to use anything less than .24 caliber to hunt deer.

You may be "the man" when it comes to correct shot placement with a small bullet on an animal that size, but most shooters are not...and if it doesn't go thru-and-thru, well, good look tracking that deer...and the wasted game that goes along with the thing dying a slow, miserable death...

Don't even bother telling me you can reliably make head/neck shots on deer at ridiculous distances with an AR, either...because I know that's a load of poo, too...

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M&P's and K Frames Pleeze!

A larger caliber WILL NOT over ride lack of ability to make proper shot placement!! Never ever!!

I have killed about 30 deer with handguns (357, 44, 7-30, 454, etc) and rifles (270, 308, 243). A couple of weeks ago I shot my first deer with a 5.56. It was a 132# doe (good size mature doe for middle GA) standing broadside at about 100 yards. I used a Nosler 64gr Bonded Solid Base (See Nosler Personal Defense ammo) bullet. The shot was just behind the shoulder. The deer ran about 40 yards after being shot. One shot - one kill does not a study make, but I have seen deer shot with bigger calibers run further after being shot. Yes I was careful to make a good shot. The bullet went in one side and out the other. It expanded but did not fragment. It was a good day. If all I had was a 5.56, then I would buy some proper ammo and go deer hunting. BTW, I have since shot another doe with my M&P 10.

I hope to hunt with my AR this year. I have enjoyed quite a few conversations with the Dept. of Conservation gentleman who is charge of our county. He too hunts with a .223 and he recommended a 64 grain soft point bullet. I ended up buying a box of Federal Fusion 62 grain bullets to hunt with.
Some of us don't have the extra $ to buy another gun. I look at hunting deer as a way to put some meat in the freezer inexpensively. If I totally get into hunting, then I might look at getting another gun.
As always, be safe. Get a good sight picture and be aware of your surroundings and what is beyond your sight picture. Good luck.

I will be hunting with my AR for the first time this year and I will be using the Remington 62gr Hog Hammers with the Barnes TSX bullet. Hope to find out Saturday morning.

Any luck?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Unfortunately my whole hunting party was skunked this year. I hunt in northern Wisconsin. We've had a couple of pretty tough winters, evidence of wolves in the area and piles of insincere hunters tromping around two hours after sun up. Also, it seems that the rut was pretty much done by opening morning. All the shooting we heard was pretty far to the southwest of us. Guess I'll be ordering a half a pig from the butcher.

Shot a good sized deer a few weeks back with yet another AR. This time a standing shot at a lasered 166 yards. Didn't leadit enough and center punched the LH femur with a 55gr Sierra out of a 1-12" twist 16" barreled Colt. Grenaded the femur but the bullet still went forward of the diaphragm where it cut a major artery. Long distance for these parts and poor shot placement, but that deer didn't go another 20 yards before plopping down. Roughly seven years and many deer into this .223 experiment and I am way more than satisfied. "Astounded" has morphed into "content" and fully confident in the caliber selection.

Some people need to think before they post. Jeez.

First off let me say congratulations to Mr. P the younger and to Dad. Well done. How dare anyone belittle this young man in any way. As far as .223 being enough gun for deer IMO its not. So I don't hunt with mine. I've taken deer with 22lr,.243,30/06,.308,.270,.300 win mag and bow. Once with a .410 with #7 1/2 shot on a bet. (very dumb) Never lost one. It was said many times on this post -PICK YOUR SHOT. BTW My son was 8 when he got his first deer. A black tail doe about 100 pounds with a 20 gauge shotgun. That ought to stir 'em up.

getting ready to try again -- the boy is a little bigger now and he'll use the 30-30 (he's looking for a trophy, this time), but my daughter (18) is going this time, so she'll use the 223 (she'll be looking for her first deer -- I'll just be 'along for the ride')-- we are not big hunters, my work gets in the way a lot -- but we are hoping to put some meat in the freezer Saturday,

my friend invited us to come up to his property in the middle of Alabama and "kill a deer" -- he didn't say anything about hunting (I'm pretty sure he knows where they are at) -- hope a couple of big ones come by, I will let you know how it turns out...

back on topic --- we'll be going with the Federal Fusion 62 grain in M&P 15

Doubt this is on the list of approved calibers for deer, but I'd bet that you are not the only poster on this forum to kill a deer with a rimfire. It just shows the importance of choosing your shots and good bullet placement.