alphabrace
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What is the 38 super? I have seen it as one of the calibers you can get model 1911's in. I am not familar with it. Does it have a special purpose?
What's so super about 38 super?
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I may get in trouble, but here goes. I have been reading about the 38 Super for 50 years or so. I know it gives more velocity than the 9mm, but is it worth it?
john traveler
Member
At the time of it's introduction in the late 1920s, the .38 Super was the highest velocity pistol cartridge available in the US. This was in the pre-.357 Magnum days, when the available medium-large pistol and revolver cartridges were: .38 Special, .44 Special, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and 9mm.
The .38 Super presented in the M1911A1 platform represented a considerable improvement in power and velocity over it's predecessor .38 ACP cartridge. In the lexicon of the day, "super" meant an elevated, higher power and more capable version of something already existing. As in "Superman".
The .38 Super presented in the M1911A1 platform represented a considerable improvement in power and velocity over it's predecessor .38 ACP cartridge. In the lexicon of the day, "super" meant an elevated, higher power and more capable version of something already existing. As in "Superman".
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My understanding is that it was designed to punch through cars and the body armor of the 1930s. No one was apparently smart enough to name it the .38 Auto Magnum 
The .357 revolver took on this role a few years later in that decade.
I also read the .38 ACP was always factory loaded in brass cases and the .38 Super in nickel cases, so no one would load the latter in an early .38 ACP gun and damage it.
The .357 revolver took on this role a few years later in that decade.I also read the .38 ACP was always factory loaded in brass cases and the .38 Super in nickel cases, so no one would load the latter in an early .38 ACP gun and damage it.
JoeS
Member
I've never owned one but its a cartridge with a pretty rich history. When introduced it was definitely the hardest hitting auto cartridge of its day. Known at the time (as I am recalling this anyway) during the era of the road bandits as a round that could shoot through the cars of the day thus making it a fairly prized law enforcement piece.
It seems like it was also fairly prized among a lot of folks along the border, possibly because it is popular in Mexico.
Later of course it became quite popular in IPSC shooting because it could be loaded to make 'major' (with supported barrels) where the 9mm lacked case capacity.
I think its something of a romantic round if there is such a thing. I could fancy something like a LW Colt Commander in that chambering as a carry gun. Pack it around in a floral carved rig whilst wearing your favorite cowboy hat and bolo tie ala Texas Ranger.
Poke around for a Skeeter Skelton article or the like on it, that'll whet your appetite for one.
It seems like it was also fairly prized among a lot of folks along the border, possibly because it is popular in Mexico.
Later of course it became quite popular in IPSC shooting because it could be loaded to make 'major' (with supported barrels) where the 9mm lacked case capacity.
I think its something of a romantic round if there is such a thing. I could fancy something like a LW Colt Commander in that chambering as a carry gun. Pack it around in a floral carved rig whilst wearing your favorite cowboy hat and bolo tie ala Texas Ranger.
Poke around for a Skeeter Skelton article or the like on it, that'll whet your appetite for one.
handgunner356
Member
It could have been the ".38 Magnum" version of the .38 Auto. It ran a 130gr bullet around 300fps faster than the standard .38 Autos 1050fps. Almost all .38 Super ammo is marked +P to help keep someone from using it in the older .38 Automatics.
From "Sixguns by Keith"
"About 1930 due to armored vests and bullet proof glass for autos, the various big gangs over the country gave our police and law enforcement agencies a bad time. Colt answered the problem with their Super .38 auto on the good old model 1911 design. The new arm shot a 130 grain bullet at 1300 feet and proved an answer to the problem. J. Edgar Hoover's boys promptly adopted it for their side-arms. It would penetrate bullet proof vests, armored car bodies if not too heavy, and bullet proof glass."
"About 1930 due to armored vests and bullet proof glass for autos, the various big gangs over the country gave our police and law enforcement agencies a bad time. Colt answered the problem with their Super .38 auto on the good old model 1911 design. The new arm shot a 130 grain bullet at 1300 feet and proved an answer to the problem. J. Edgar Hoover's boys promptly adopted it for their side-arms. It would penetrate bullet proof vests, armored car bodies if not too heavy, and bullet proof glass."
Ancient1
Member
It is one of the neatest cartridges I have a guns for. There ain't nothing better than putting 28 rounds in the mag and one up top and run a 28 round IPSC stage & have to eject that last round when you finish. Or how about standing next to your Super when someone fires it and you teeth hurt from all the porting & slow burning powder. The biggest I have is Casull in 454 & the lil' ol' Super is so much more.
shovelwrench
Member
Its a pretty formidable auto round, however, handloads is where its at for this cartridge. You can achieve near .357 ballistics, and as stated earlier, in a double stack 15+ rd handgun. Most off the shelf ammo isn't near what a .38 Super is capable of. I have it in a 4" Kimber Pro Carry HD, and a Fusion custom 6", both 1911s.
From powerhouse to powderpuff bullseye loads it is one fantastic and fun caliber.
From powerhouse to powderpuff bullseye loads it is one fantastic and fun caliber.
Reloader Fred
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I have a couple of .38 Super handguns, and they are exceedingly accurate. The round is flat shooting and a joy on the range. As mentioned, it's real potential can only be attained through reloading these days. I like 124 grain cast bullets in mine, driven over 1,350 fps.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Hope this helps.
Fred
wilshire1412
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I like'm! I have two, one early Commander and the other is a series 70 that was gone over by King's Gunworks many years ago. It is a different shooting pistol compared to a 1911 in .45, less felt recoil but more muzzle blast with most ammo. It is really fun to shoot but definitely for the handloader, unless you only shoot once in a long while since factory ammo can be hard to find and $$$$.
Also, before the 38 Super was the "Darling" of IPSC...
Back in the day, it was legal in Mexico, where the 9mm and 45 ACP, being cartridges of War were not...
I think Melvin Purvis "G MAN" carried a brace of 38 Supers when hunting John Dillinger.
Back in the day, it was legal in Mexico, where the 9mm and 45 ACP, being cartridges of War were not...
I think Melvin Purvis "G MAN" carried a brace of 38 Supers when hunting John Dillinger.
OP
alphabrace
Member
Wow
I am amazed at the wealth of information I get off of this site! Thank-you for your responses. I am not a reloader yet but working on it and perhaps this will be a cartridge for me in the future. I would like to get a 1911 someday perhaps in this caliber. Does the 38 super use the same bullet as a 9 or 38 or 357?
I am amazed at the wealth of information I get off of this site! Thank-you for your responses. I am not a reloader yet but working on it and perhaps this will be a cartridge for me in the future. I would like to get a 1911 someday perhaps in this caliber. Does the 38 super use the same bullet as a 9 or 38 or 357?
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The .38 Super uses .355 diameter bullets, the .38 Special and .357 use (you guessed it) .357 bullets, at least on paper (no pun intended). You can probably use .357-sized bullets of the proper shape (that will feed) without problems.
george minze
Member
The 38 Super is...SUPER....Try to find a good Colt 1911 in steel in 38 super. When you do be prepared to pay premium for it....Great round sadly overlooked..Actually I can walk into three gun stores and at least buy 38super, but couldn't beg barrow or steal a box of 380...Go figure!
Chromedhearts
US Veteran
Yours truly carried a .38 super Detonics Combat Master while teaching First Aid in the Latin America, north of the Istmus, back in the 1985 era. It was one of the best carry guns I've ever had. Ammo was limited to ball stuff.
I never needed to use it against a human being but believe it would have performed as good or better than the 9mm that most of the uniform guys carried, and it was flatter shooting out past 25 yds than any of the .45s that I shot.
I never needed to use it against a human being but believe it would have performed as good or better than the 9mm that most of the uniform guys carried, and it was flatter shooting out past 25 yds than any of the .45s that I shot.
Reloader Fred
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"The .38 Super uses .355 diameter bullets"
Actually, SAAMI specs call for a bullet diameter of .356" for the .38 Super and .38acp. I size all my 9mm and .38 super bullets to .356" and they work perfectly. Most commercial bullets for the .38 Super are sized to .356".
Hope this helps.
Fred
Actually, SAAMI specs call for a bullet diameter of .356" for the .38 Super and .38acp. I size all my 9mm and .38 super bullets to .356" and they work perfectly. Most commercial bullets for the .38 Super are sized to .356".
Hope this helps.
Fred
TSQUARED
Member
I shoot both a S&W 686 and S&W 627 in 38 Super in the usual pistol games. It provides 38 Special ballistics in a shorter cartrige which speeds up reloads.
When I use my semi auto for the pistol games I prefer chasing inexpensive 9mm or 40 S&W brass vs the less common and more expensive 38 Super brass.
When I use my semi auto for the pistol games I prefer chasing inexpensive 9mm or 40 S&W brass vs the less common and more expensive 38 Super brass.
As previous posts mentioned it was developed in the 30's to penetrate car doors. It's reputation of so so accuracy was a result of it headspacing on one side of a silly simi-rim rather than the case mouth as most autos. Years ago you had to buy a custom reamer and deepen a 9mm barrel to get it to headspace on the case mouth and then accuracy was superb. (Can't get a 9mm to shoot as well because of its tapered case.) Now most manufacturers headspace .38 Supers on the mouth.
The weak point in attaining high velocity is the unsupported part of case at the feed ramp. You don't want a blow out there. Not pleasant (from experience). Starline now makes .38 Super Comp brass which supports that area.
Great number if you reload. Sherlok
The weak point in attaining high velocity is the unsupported part of case at the feed ramp. You don't want a blow out there. Not pleasant (from experience). Starline now makes .38 Super Comp brass which supports that area.
Great number if you reload. Sherlok
Spotteddog
Member
During some time periods, the manufacturers got a bit loose with tolerances on them. This in some guns caused accuracy problems, but that was years ago. It suffered from being 25 years ahead of it's time. And fifty years ahead of bullet design times! I feel about it like I do the .44 Special. Just too damned good to ever let it die! Owned a couple of 1911's in it over the years.
