Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment

Here is the newly acquired Model 59, I finally was able to get yesterday. The gun is an early model in the A17XXXX range. The gun has the relief cuts on the frame for the manual safety, the longer magazine release button, longer slide stop/takedown pin, and the hole in the hammer. The gun also has five very unique features. (1)The gun is Saudia Arabian marked,(2) it has curved/arched backstrap with no lanyard loop, and (3)the gun is wearing factory thin, full checkered, non medallion Rosewood grips. (4) The fourth feature is that the gun has a grooved trigger. **Interesting note** The spring issue of the 2006 S&WCA journal on page 69, section 5.13 has a paragraph and picture of a grooved trigger on a steel frame Model 39, saying that this is the only one (grooved trigger) known to exist, but since Model 39 and Model 59 triggers are the same, we now know there are at least two grooved triggers in existense, since there is one on this Model 59. (5) The fifth and best feature of this gun is that the gun is in 7.65 (30 Luger) caliber. The barrel and magazine floor plates are stamped 7.65 M.M.
There are no proof marks anywhere on the gun or barrel. The barrel is wider at the muzzle to fit/work with the barrel bushing.
I know this Model 59 does not compare to the fabulous revolvers alot of fellow members own and have shared pictures of, but I feel this Model 59 deserves an honorable mention. Please comment.

WHOA!

A Smith 59 in .30 Luger????????

First time I've even heard of one much less seen one.

Is .30 Luger even MADE anymore?

Awesome!...Simply AWESOME!
I will have to open the book now and do some research.
Your backstrap looks like a Model 39-2, Is your gun a 14 shot double stack?
The "hole" hammer is from the original Model 39
Is your frame steel or aluminum and is it groove or check cut at the front & back or smooth?

Always wondered why S&W didnt offer wood grips for the 59 series or a barrel chambered for 30 Mauser.

Congrats on a rare and unusual find...Can you post more pics?
If you dont mind me asking...Where did you find it...?

NOT:..Just checked the SCSW 3rd edition, page 223 says "Unconfirmed report of at least one model 39 or 39-2 chambered for the .30 Luger cartridge...Nothing found about a 59 in 30 Luger.

You DEFINATELY should get it lettered!
NEED more Pics!

Great gun! You should think about a factory letter on this one.

I think the the 30 Luger is not uncommon in export guns. Browning made some Hi-powers in that caliber also.

I will tell you I hate to load the 30 Luger - between the bottleneck case and the small bullet I've never found them easy to reload.

By the way, don't use the 7.62 Tokarev ammo in you gun. The 7.62 runs at higher pressures even though the case size and bullet are simlar.

Way cool. Thanks for sharing. Congratulations on finding a "one of a kind". That is always a prize.

That's very neat.
I had heard of them, but never seen one.

definitely worth the 'honorable mention' a rare bird indeed.

That's one heck of a find!!! Congratulations!

I can't wait to hear more about it!

Being a 59 fan, that's beats any revolver I have, no matter how shiny!

I wonder if it was part of a special order as it does not seem to be a cataloged item. Either way it has to be VERY rare. I too would get a letter from S&W asap. More photos please!

Engine49guy said:

Awesome!...Simply AWESOME!
I will have to open the book now and do some research.
Your backstrap looks like a Model 39-2, Is your gun a 14 shot double stack?
The "hole" hammer is from the original Model 39
Is your frame steel or aluminum and is it groove or check cut at the front & back or smooth?

Always wondered why S&W didnt offer wood grips for the 59 series or a barrel chambered for 30 Mauser.

Congrats on a rare and unusual find...Can you post more pics?
If you dont mind me asking...Where did you find it...?

NOT:..Just checked the SCSW 3rd edition, page 223 says "Unconfirmed report of at least one model 39 or 39-2 chambered for the .30 Luger cartridge...Nothing found about a 59 in 30 Luger.

You DEFINATELY should get it lettered!
NEED more Pics!

Click to expand...

To answer your questions. I got this from a serious collector who has a knack for finding great guns. I knew of this gun for a while and was lucky to buy it, as the original potential first buyer's deal fell through. Yes this is a 14 shot double stack gun. The front strap is serrated, and it has a half smooth, half checkered special Model 59 backstrap, as the grip frame is wider than a Model 39. The guns frame is alloy. Early Model 59's also had holes in the hammers up until about serial number A180000, when the practice was stopped. I was also able to confirm that the S&W factory did indeed make wood grips on a special order basis for Model 59's, not a regular offered item. Having just got this, I have alot of research to do. Thank you for you comments, and interest.

I haven't had much trouble loading the 7.65mm Luger round. I fire it in a 1906 American Eagle luger. I use mostly cast bullets, and there isn't much loading data around on it.

Dont worry about a 7.62 Tokarev round finding it's way into your 7.65mm Luger chamber, the Tokarev round is about 1/8 inch longer than the 7.65 Luger.

I strongly suspect that your custom M59 came out of Italy. The reason I believe that is civilian ownership of military caliber pistols are restricted, and the 7.62 Parabellum is a popular alternative to 9x19. You will also find Browning HP and various Beretta, Czech, and German pistols in that caliber.

Also, in my business trips to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, many of the rarely available (if not most) sporting arms are imported from vendors in Italy. If you think gun ownership is tightly restricted in some parts of Europe and the USA, you should look at what it is like in Saudi Arabia. If you are not authorized military, police, or have "connections", it's very difficult to own a pistol.

The Last Standing Knight said:

A Smith 59 in .30 Luger????????

First time I've even heard of one much less seen one.

Is .30 Luger even MADE anymore?

Click to expand...

Fiocchi still makes 7.65 (30 Luger) Ammo. I bought two boxes of ball ammo just to have to go with the gun. It was about $50 shipped.

curious caliber choice

Model39 said:

Here is the newly acquired Model 59, I finally was able to get yesterday. The gun is an early model in the A17XXXX range. The gun has the relief cuts on the frame for the manual safety, the longer magazine release button, longer slide stop/takedown pin, and the hole in the hammer. The gun also has five very unique features. (1)The gun is Saudia Arabian marked,(2) it has curved/arched backstrap with no lanyard loop, and (3)the gun is wearing factory thin, full checkered, non medallion Rosewood grips. (4) The fourth feature is that the gun has a grooved trigger. **Interesting note** The spring issue of the 2006 S&WCA journal on page 69, section 5.13 has a paragraph and picture of a grooved trigger on a steel frame Model 39, saying that this is the only one (grooved trigger) known to exist, but since Model 39 and Model 59 triggers are the same, we now know there are at least two grooved triggers in existense, since there is one on this Model 59. (5) The fifth and best feature of this gun is that the gun is in 7.65 (30 Luger) caliber. The barrel and magazine floor plates are stamped 7.65 M.M.
There are no proof marks anywhere on the gun or barrel. The barrel is wider at the muzzle to fit/work with the barrel bushing.
I know this Model 59 does not compare to the fabulous revolvers alot of fellow members own and have shared pictures of, but I feel this Model 59 deserves an honorable mention. Please comment.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting about your unusual Kingdom of Saudi Arabia stamped pistol.

I imagine the only reason why anybody would go the trouble of acquiring a 7.65mm version of a perfectly good 9mm is because the local laws prohibit possession of 9mm. As john traveler mentioned, Italy is one of these countries, but not the only one.

Perhaps a Saudi acquired a 7.65mm while working in one of these countries and brought it back home to be stamped with the Saudi coat of arms and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Please post the contents of your historical letter as an update.

mlk18 said:

I wonder if it was part of a special order as it does not seem to be a cataloged item. Either way it has to be VERY rare. I too would get a letter from S&W asap. More photos please!

Click to expand...

Here is a photo of the left side of the gun with the slide locked back to show the exposed barrel. I removed the barrel from another 9MM 59 I own to show how the barrel differs between the two. The standard factory 9MM is blued and is straight, while the 7.65 (30 Luger) barrel is not blued and bells out at the end to fit/work with the slide bushing.
You can also see the special curved backstrap the gun has. I am reluctant to post alot of pictures, as the camera I have/use cannot give the clear sharp pictures I know all of you would like me to produce.

1066 said:

Great gun! You should think about a factory letter on this one.

I think the the 30 Luger is not uncommon in export guns. Browning made some Hi-powers in that caliber also.

I will tell you I hate to load the 30 Luger - between the bottleneck case and the small bullet I've never found them easy to reload.

By the way, don't use the 7.62 Tokarev ammo in you gun. The 7.62 runs at higher pressures even though the case size and bullet are simlar.

Click to expand...

Tokarv and Mauser C-96 wont chamber in a 30 Luger pistol. While similar looking, the 30 Luger is case 19mm long, and the '30 cal' Tokarev/C96 Mauser ammunition is based on a longer 25mm case.

Sadly, the Tokarev/Mauser ammunition is far more common; there is military surplus on the market, due ti it's extensive use in foremer Soviet Bloc countries, as well as in China, and elsewhere in SE Asia.

Very interesting and good find. I remember while in Germany in the late 80s, Frankoniea had Smith 659s for sale that had a three barrel set, 7.65 Luger, 9x19 and 9x21. Germans were buying alot of Smith and Wesson products then with several models not listed in the US.

CD

1066 said:

Great gun! You should think about a factory letter on this one.

I think the the 30 Luger is not uncommon in export guns. Browning made some Hi-powers in that caliber also.

I will tell you I hate to load the 30 Luger - between the bottleneck case and the small bullet I've never found them easy to reload.

By the way, don't use the 7.62 Tokarev ammo in you gun. The 7.62 runs at higher pressures even though the case size and bullet are simlar.

Click to expand...

FYI: Tokarev ammo is the lenght of >.30 Mauser not .30 Luger.

1066 said:

Great gun! You should think about a factory letter on this one.

I think the the 30 Luger is not uncommon in export guns. Browning made some Hi-powers in that caliber also.

I will tell you I hate to load the 30 Luger - between the bottleneck case and the small bullet I've never found them easy to reload.

By the way, don't use the 7.62 Tokarev ammo in you gun. The 7.62 runs at higher pressures even though the case size and bullet are simlar.

Click to expand...

FYI: Tokarev ammo is the length of .30 Mauser not .30 Luger.

I don't think that the pistol comes from an Italian importer. Every single pistol imported in Italy must have the proof marks of the "Banco Nazionale di Prova" of Gardone Val Trompia on barrel, slide and frame (Banco Nazionale di Prova per le Armi da Fuoco Portatili e per le munizioni commerciali.).
.30 Luger IMHO is a very nice caliber,although less powerfull than 9 Parabellum and actually it was used in Italy and in many countries where 9x19 was not legal as well. At present in Italy they bypass the problem with 9x21. Although reloading .30 luger could be a bit tricky, shooting it is a real pleasure and as a matter of fact, it is amazingly accurate,