Other than someone referencing a Glock Talk thread, can someone please point out where any members in this thread posted about "tacticool" or "posers"?

I didn't see it here.

Back on track, anyone have an update? Sonny? Regards 18DAI.

I tried but I can't help myself this thread is like a bad nightmare. I have to agree with the Buckeyechuck guy I will add this much Chuck...I don't care if my so called whatever sidearm is made of wood so long as it goes BANG when I pull the trigger. All of the so-called plastic fantastic hangguns out there since the ohhhhhhhhhhh what the late 70's I have found the S/W M/P is the best fit for my hand,but that is just me. Plastic frame/stock/fore end material has been around for a very long time. It took and Austrian oh those very bad Austrian boys to show the world how to make guns.

on a light note I do find this thread very pleasing 'cause I'am from WV. I write this with a smile 'cause the WVSP have made the whole USA take notice. Why don't y'all come on down up or over and visit we will be nice. We will have ya over for supper. Might let ya come back for deer season.

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My brother is my Hero

OK I am much to lazy to read through all of the posts here and ask if anybody has seen one of these guns personally yet or has posted a picture? The OP asked me to join and post what I know based on some info I had on another forum.

Welcome to the forum gotuonpaper!

No, nobody has posted a picture of these melonite, integral rail 4566TSW's - YET!

To give you the readers digest version of this thread :

A) The WVSP are getting new Melonite 4566TSW's with integral rails.

B) The order is cancelled and WVSP is going to Glock 21's.

C) Black S&W 45 seen in a WVSP Troopers holster at an accident scene.

Thank you for any info you may be able to provide us. Regards 18DAI

You asked.

OK I have personally held the black 4566 in my hand. It is integral rail. The troopers got to buy their old silver guns back for a little less than 500 bucks. It is a very nice gun just like the guns they replaced.

The admin at WVSP are old war horses and have had a S&W in their holsters for a LOT of years, and dont want anything else right now. They will not allow a GLOCK for another generation or two of troopers. The DNR and DOC have both switched to the 21 SF.

S&W did NOT want to make these guns for them and had even went so far as to disassemble all of the machinery to build the 3rd Gens in Springfield. They were going to give them a lot of M&Ps for free with holsters and mag pouches to egt them to switch. WVSP flat refused.

S&W moved all the machinery to Houlton and reassembled it just to build these guns.

I think you meant to say it took an Austrian to show the world how to MARKET guns, instead of "make" guns. Of course, even then, Gaston simply stole a page from the local dope pusher. You know, give em a taste for free and then they'll come back for more.

I don't know if the Glock story will ever amount to much in the history of gunmaking, but will someday be required reading in marketing classes.

FWIW, unless this trooper was in a class A uniform he could have been packing a personal weapon. WVSP is a funny animal when it comes to their firearms policy. You can pretty much carry what ever you want if you're working a special detail that doesn't require a Class A uniform and duty rig.
More than once I've seen a reconstructionist called out and show up in Class C's and carrying a personal weapon. 1911's are popular amongst the troops and could easily be mistaken for a 3rd gen S&W.

I've been out of the loop though for a year now, so I can't offer any real info, just speculation. I'll say this though, if I ever get a chance to buy a melontite 4566 with the integeral rail I'll have a hard time not jumping on it.

Thanks for the great info, hopefully S&W will wake up before it gets to late! 3rd Generation pistols are still quite popular. Many LE Officers who have an option still carry S&W 4506's and 4566's!

Very interesting! I'm looking foward to pictures.


The negative part of me has to make the following comment though. WVSP will replace pistols that really didn't need replacing and and demand a more expensive model to boot... Yet they don't have the money to pay adqeuate overtime to their troops. The radio system still sucks in many places. Many cars still don't have cages or radar. Ok, I'll stop...

This is some funny stuff......

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Jack C

Radar? That's not a necessary piece of police equipment except for revenue enhancement.

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I miss my 4546 the most.

I disagree.

Just like the motor vehicle code, radar is nothing more than PC to stop cars and find criminals. I personally, enjoy working traffic. (much to the chagrin of my dispatches who apparently hate working) I, however, very much dislike writing tickets. Dinging the working man for 10 over does no one any good. However, stopping that car might reveal a wanted felon, a DUI, drug dealer, etc. If he's a good guy then I scratch out a warning and send him on his way.

I also always take a moment to explain to people why I stop them and the fact that minor traffic and equipment violations routinely reveal bad people we all want off the streets. the vast majority of my stops end with a written warning. (so my bosses can see I'm working) Two things I ways write for however, is no insurance and having children unrestrained. I'll typically only write for speed if its excessive. (like 16mph over and even then I'll only write it for 9mph over)

As far as traffic control goes, nothing gets people's attention like a slap in the wallet. I really don't know how else we're supposed to handle things. Are other fine just for revenue enhancement as well?


Sorry for the derail off topic, everyone...

What he /\ said.

Besides, we have to pay for these nice guns some way.........or take the free M&P's.

I hate to say it I would like them to move to M&P because I want one of the old ones!

Hank

I suspect they would be selling off the "old" ones either way.

If that's the case, they had to have made this decision more than a year and half ago.

I learned back in Jan of 2010 that S&W was already in the process of moving their 3rd gen pistol production to their Houlton plant, where they had already moved their SW1911 production, to continue making room in their Springfield facility for increased production of their M&P line.

Nothing was said about it being moved so they could make a special run of contract guns. It was explained that they expected decreased production of the 3rd gen guns for LE contracts/sales, so the production was moved away from the main plant to make room for increased growth of other lines.

BTW, it's not uncommon for S&W LE sales to be offering existing LE agency customers the choice to trade out their 3rd gen and SW99/990L guns for new M&P's.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I dont foresee the WVSP being with the 3rd gen guns forever, or even Smith. The rest of the state as a whole is pretty much Glock. May see them go SIG.

I hope West Virginia State Police keep the S&W 4566 3rd Generation line going, but your right Glock will probably win out on price alone eventually! I think Sig Sauer makes a great pistol but they seem to have priced themselves out of the Law Enforcement market. Alot of Departments near me use to carry Sig, now all are Glock, and our State Highway Patrol who have Sigs are looking at the Glock 22 and S&W M&P, they too were S&W for along time, revolvers, then Beretta 96's now Sig but they are near the end of their service life.

Maybe S&W will keep the 3rd Generation line alive!

It's sad that many LEO organizations seem to be focused on price alone as the determining factor in a handgun purchase.

After all, many of them are now buying AR type rifles as supplementary guns, and very expensive telecommunications gear. The cost of the vehicles and their maintenance is many times the cost of a handgun.

It seems like an officer's handgun in his or her most important tool, and at times, the only thing between possibly coming home or not. That seeems like the last place to cut costs.

I'm not suggesting a Glock or an M&P won't get the job done nor are they not a decent handguns. But it just seems to be a shame that all of these decisions seem to come down to cost - and an officer's familiarity with, and preference for, handguns seems to be secondary. Is that off base?

I know some departments will let officer's carry a personal gun they qualify with, but that seems to be pretty rare.

Or is it not the cost thing that is primarily driving these decisions - but cost coupled with easier training with a DAO striker-fired platform?

Okay...has this thread answered the question as to whether or not they are keeping the 4566? If so, did S&W re-tool to build them again?

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

I agree fellas. I suspect we'll see WVSP move away from the 3rd Gen's as the old school guys running the department retire.

While I do tend to prefer an all-metal TDA pistol myself, I suspect their days are passing for significant commercial sales.

S&W jumped before Sig, but don't be surprised if Sig eventually starts pushing their P250 as their primary LE model offering. (Beretta will use the PX4, S&W the M&P, etc.)

The reduced cost of making a molded polymer frame, including one which can be adapted to a disparate group of users with differing hand sizes, is going to be a couple of hard-to-beat influences in the service pistol market as time passes.

More's the pity for those of us who like the metal guns, though.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/west-vi...pistols/11212/

Dave Williams

Similar story on Shooting Wire:

Shooting Wire

The press releases refer to a melonite finish and a picatinny rail. That would correspond with the previous posts about black 4566's with integral rail.

Wish somebody would have some pictures!

Now if we can just find a distibutor who has some of the overuns. Regards 18DAI

Yes, please keep us posted on any possible overrun sales. I will definitely want one! This is like the perfect 3rd gen pistol.

As a native West Virginian (currently displaced to Ohio...) I wouldn't mind getting one marked as WV State Police either.

Put me in line for a melonite, integral rail 4566. Who has connections with a friendly LE distributor?

Good For West Virginia State Police, now put me in line for one too! Hopefully S&W will have some over runs or see the light and offer them for sale to the public.

I am working on pictures currently soon as I can i will post.

And for those expecting overruns...I wouldnt hold my breath.

I know, but no harm in hoping...

I just don't understand S&W's thinking. Why not make a few hundred over runs ? They could sell them for whatever price they put on them. Just really sad that they are making a particular gun that alot of folks are wanting however they wont make a few extras. All I can say is buisness must be good at S&W not to want to make something that some people are wanting no matter what the price is. I have never heard of a company turning away $$$$$$$ like S&W does.

I don't think they want to continue or promote the "older" guns. Remember that although a few dozen (?) of people like us, on a few enthusiast forums, would buy these guns, it may well be that the actual customer base is more like several dozen than several hundred, and I doubt even several hundred is a compelling number from a production standpoint. As I understand it, these guns would sell new for $700.00-$900.00 now and I don't know if that is a competitive price with Glocks and M&Ps and such selling for less.

I have no idea how much they make on a gun, but I doubt the profit from even a few hundred gets anyone's attention at S&W or similar companies. Also, it means maintaining warranty service and parts as well. I don't know what S&W would require as a minimum order, or if they would even entertain the idea, but I think if there was a sufficient market and a profit to be had, one of the big distributors would put together a large order.

I would not be surprised to learn that S&W is only willing to supply the 3rd gen guns to LE agencies because of concerns with market presence and goodwill in that community, rather than due to a per-contract profit.

Lastly, there is always a small group who want something once it is gone. When the 3rd gen guns were actively promoted I seem to recall hearing all kinds of complaints from the typical cop and civilian user about them being big and heavy and clunky. "Everyone" wanted the newest, lightest, highest capacity, shoot it underwater, never rust, never lube, takes a lickin and keeps on tickin wonder gun. I can remember hearing comments and reading all kinds of posts on various forums where cops complained about carrying around "bricks" and anchors and how they couldn't wait for something lighter than their 4566, 4006 or 5906.

Only a smallish group of people (including me and most of you reading this) avoided getting the disease and were (and still are) happy to carry the S&W.

It would be nice if I am wrong about this. It is what I think, not what I wish.

Hey guys. Thought I would throw my .02 in here. I recently had to do an extensive background check, fingerprinted and all. I asked the state trooper that done my ten cards and she said they were carrying the M&P45. This was at the first of this month.

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Arma tuenter pacem

10ring hit it right on the nailhead... common sense is all it takes to figure out why....

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Jack C

10ring posted: I'm not trying to argue with you guys for the sake of arguing, but I disagree.

SIG makes a pretty penny selling both metal and polymer guns, as does Beretta. And Kimber is selling the **** out of the metal framed Solo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10ring posted:
I have no idea how much they make on a gun, but I doubt the profit from even a few hundred gets anyone's attention at S&W or similar companies. Also, it means maintaining warranty service and parts as well. I don't know what S&W would require as a minimum order, or if they would even entertain the idea, but I think if there was a sufficient market and a profit to be had, one of the big distributors would put together a large order.

My S&W 4506 came with a lifetime warrany card, I hope S&W honors it if I ever need repairs!

You could say the same thing about slim profits on the M&P's, ("although they're making it up in volume") and for that matter, they make a lot of variants of the 1911 that should be consistent with the same profit margin/volume/parts issues ou mention.

The way I look at it, is kind of like the low volume Corvette brings a lot of presitige to the GM brand, even though they sell a lot more Malibu's and Cruze's.

Every company desires to have an "aspirational" brand or two in their portfolio.

1911's and Melonite 4566's and 3913's could all be those aspirational models for S&W.

yep, for the 5 guys in this thread that want them... makes sense.. I don't understand why Buick won't make the 1987 Grand National again.. them dirty rats... what's wrong with them...

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Jack C

[deleted]
see message below - I thought the message I was replying to was intended in good nature

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NRA Certified Instructor

remat 457 - Please don't feed the troll. Regards 18DAI.

From what I have heard of their service, I am confident they will, although if it is far enough into the future and a serious enough problem, it might mean getting a new (and different) gun.

On the other hand, maybe if you suffer a catastrophic failure of your frame in the next year or so, they will mount your slide on a melonite frame with an integral rail and send that back to you.... Hmmmmmm

So, we have seen a P.O. and we have an official S&W press release: Investors - Press Releases - Smith & Wesson dated August 16.

My guess is that this is going to happen

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NRA Certified Instructor

I think you're missing the point if you think there are only "5 guys in this thread that want them" (metal framed pistols), or as other posters have stated, "only collectors of 3rd gens would be interested...."

Tens of thousands of 1911's are being sold monthly, and that trend is accelerating. SIG sells mostly metal framed pistols, with a few polymer models as does Beretta. CZ is selling a lot of metal pistols these days.

I think a lot of M&P, SR9, and Glock pistol shooters would move up to a 3923/4013/5906, etc., if they had the choice. As it is now, a lot of them seem to "move up" to a 1911, or get a SIG or Beretta, when they really get into the sport.

I like you way of thinking 10ring! Of course I love my 4506, but a new frame with a intergal rail, you got my attention!

gotuonpaper, any luck with that picture of the WVSP melonite 4566TSW yet? Regards 18DAI

Anyone heard if/when and where the old WVSP 4566's will hit the civilian market? I'd love t get my hands one on and I can tell you for a fact that there are some nice, low round count ones floating around. I suspect however, that not many were turned, with most Troopers opting to buy their old gun.

There already out there,I bought mine a couple Months back.My buddy bought his about a Month before me,so they have been out there a while.I'd say your right that alot of Troopers bought there old ones,but there will be a bunch that didn't.You might get lucky checking sale papers,or asking Gun Shops about them.Because alot of Troopers go to the Gun shops regularly,and they might know of a Trooper that has one For Sale.The Trooper I bought mine from was an Officer so it's in Fantastic condition,but my Buddy bought his from a Patrolman so his had a little more wear on it,but it's still in good condition for a carry Weapon.I want to put some new Grips on mine because of a little bit of seatbelt wear,but I can't find any Factory Grips For Sale.

As promised...sorry for the delay. Hope you all like.



By jwhite75 at 2011-08-08



By jwhite75 at 2011-08-08