I'm finally in the mood to replace the springs and the only place that says they have recoil springs for a 4513TSW is Brownell's at $15 with shipping for one pair (inner and outer).

I called S&W and they said they don't have them, but they did have some for my 3913 and 6906 (same spring).

Any ideas? Wolff's website says they don't have them. Same for Numrich. Midway is backordered.

Is Brownell's my only hope?

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Kirk / Spock 2020

S&W is the only place I know of that have the dual spring set used in the compact 40&45. Brownells and Midway do stock S&W parts and the springs are cheap enough it's just that shipping is half of it.

You're after S&W part numbers 108660000 & 108670000. They're backordered & overdue at Midway and I checked for those numbers and don't see them showing up at all at Brownells.

Since I'm switching most of my guns over to a ISMI flatwire spring, I have have a couple sets to spare. PM me your info and I'll send ya one.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

Hey Master Chief, once you've worked out the kinks in those flatwire springs (no pun intended), would you let us know what works with what? I just bought a Shorty 45 and was thinking about replacing its springs, but I read your thread on the binding problem and would like to avoid that in mine if I can. Thanks in advance. What are you putting in your 4513 TSW and any of your other pistols, too?

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

That's awful generous of you Bill!

I'll PM you...

Yes those are the numbers, and they do seem hard to locate.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

Brownells does seem to have both the inner and outer springs in stock.

Inner Spring: Recoil Spring, Inner : RECOIL SPRING, INNER | Brownells

Outer Spring: Recoil Spring, Outer : RECOIL SPRING, OUTER | Brownells

HTH

Seems their search bar isn't working. I typed in the part numbers up top and nothing. S&W part numbers have always worked for me previously.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

Thanks Denver Dick for the heads up. I just checked and Brownells has both springs - shipping is 7.95 - $22.31 for 2 sets and shipping. Neither is in stock at MidwayUSA.

I have a guy that I buy from, contact him at TriggerShims.com or MichiganCentersOutdoors.com his name is Lance Shively a super guy. I was putting new springs in my 6906 and lost one, contacted him and he sent me another one at no charge. Hope this helps.

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Don't be the victim...

Bill,
Where are you getting the flat wire springs from? I found a bunch of the inner- outer springs at Midway and bought them. What is the round count before swapping out for new springs? I have both a Shorty Forty and 4513TSW.

The recommended service life/round count for replacement is still given as either every 5,000 rounds or every 5 years of service, whichever occurs first.

It's not surprising to think they've run out of the springs every now and again, since they're used in the 4513TSW, a couple of the 4516 variants, the 457, 4013TSW & the 4040PD.

I have 3 of those guns myself, which is why I usually order at least half a dozen sets of the nested recoil springs at a time. I'd rather wait for "extra" sets to be back-ordered, than have to wait for replacements needed right now. (I do the same with all of my mag & recoil springs.)

I had to wait a couple of months for the torsion hand springs for a pre-MIM J-frame that needed the spring replaced, because those were also back-ordered through their vendor. I had springs for the MIM J's, but not the older ones ... so I ordered "extra's" as long as they were back-ordered, for the next time I might need one.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

For the compact 45s I'm using the "off the shelf" flatwire springs that ISMI makes for compact Glocks like the G19,23,25 etc. I'm using a 20# in my 4516-1 since I lightened the slide somewhat it performs better with the 20#. For the 4513 upper I'm messing with I intend to start with an 18# spring. I have also made up a guiderod and fitted a fullsize 36 coil 17# spring to my 4566TSW but I haven't had opportunity to test run it yet.

I haven't gotten the Shorty45 fully sorted out yet but, when I do I will update my other thread on it.

Here are the suppliers I've been buying these springs from:
Recoil Springs
Lone Wolf Distributors - Products - Recoil Springs

Here's ISMI's criteria
Frequently Ask Questions

Regarding round count for spring replacement. I've never really payed much attention to round count. For now I'm going with the ISMI criteria for replacement and keeping some measurements and checking free length when I do maintenance. Since I'm kinda going off the S&W reservation with these springs here I think it wise to be a bit more conservative with spring replacement until I have more experience with them and am satisfied with long term reliability.

If you want to put forth the effort of taking measurements and keeping some records, you can measure the free length of the new spring before installing it and over time during regular maintenance check the free length of the now used spring. When you see between a quarter & half inch of loss in free length I'd look at replacing that spring. I kinda got in that habit of checking spring free length back when I was on the service shooting team.


Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

One thing I'd keep in mind is that different springs (design, materials, #windings, gauge, etc) may not necessarily lose strength in a manner predictable by free length. At least, not when it comes to a standard thumbnail reference of how much shorter it may become compared to when a round wire spring is being used. (Or, a pair of round wire springs.)

For example, I've noticed over the years that the flat wound recoil springs used in the Chiefs Special series get a lot shorter, a lot faster, than the longer round wire springs in slightly bigger 3rd gen guns. However, they don't seem to be exhibiting a corresponding loss of tension compared to their loss of "free length" (at least as soon as the round wire springs).

Puzzling, if nothing else. Every time I've asked about it, though, I've been told the replacement recommendation isn't any different than the other 3rd gen guns which use round wire recoil springs.

I've also tended to err on the conservative side of safety when it comes to replacing them (since we're dealing with aluminum alloy frames, and not steel).

Ever notice how the flat wound recoil springs tend to usually have more windings than wire springs? I'm wondering if the loss of "free length" means the same thing as it does with round wire springs.

We're certainly seeing more use of flat wound recoil springs in new guns, and the recommendations for service replacement of them have been all over the board when it comes to asking the major gun companies using those designs.

Then, of course, we have the dual spring systems that are seeing use.

There's really an interesting science to these things.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Interestingly, IMSI's table in the link provided by Bill supports the 1/2" limit in length reduction before replacement (using the 5" 1911 as the reference pistol.) My question is whether the table refers to flat-wire springs or coil springs; i.e., original springs in the pistol, or with the flat-wire spring replacement. Does IMSI make both round-wire and flat-wire springs for the pistols it supports, or does the chart simply indicate that when a round-wire spring reaches 1/2" of reduced length, ISMI recommends replacing it with a flat-wire spring -- which, according to the website -- should be an "annual maintenance" item only, replaced once a year so the shooter can "go have fun" shooting without worry?

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Honestly, I don't know. ISMI does make all kinds of springs both round and flat wire and for a wide array of different weapons so that table I assume is the most basic of guidelines.

I agree with Fastbolt. Spring replacement criteria is all over the map. Then if you sniff around the forums that cater to the IPSC or IDPA players and there are claims of 20k rounds or more on the same spring. So who really knows. Gun makers have their criteria as do the spring makers, much of it differs and I suspect there are some lawyers involved somewhere along the line.

In my last post I think I tried to answer a question that really has no answer. In hindsight perhaps that was a little intellectually dishonest and for that I apologize.

In the end, What are we really talking about here? I've taken an aftermarket spring designed & manufactured for a 4" Glock and stuck it in a 3.75" Smith & Wesson using a homemade guiderod. Is there any replacement criteria for that? Nope! The fact that the gun performs flawlessly is irrelevant. If it ever breaks, It's all on me and I own it. As I've said before, "I am my own warranty station". I know that should something break, neither S&W nor ISMI will have anything to do with me and that's ok. I'm willing to take that risk. If you decide to try out some of the things I've done you need to accept that you'll be climbing aboard the "Not covered under warranty" boat with me.

Keep in mind it's only been about 8 months since I first installed a flatwire spring in my 4516-1. So the mileage these springs may yield is really yet to be determined. The jury is still out so to speak. My actual experience with these springs amounts to several range sessions since the end of April. I still check for changes in free length but considering Fasbolt's comments I think I'll revisit how much weight I lend to any changes I note. As always, best just to pay attention to how the gun behaves at the range. Note changes in felt recoil, ejection patterns etc. If your brass starts landing in the next county, you may need a new spring.

Maybe I'll rig up a spring tester/scale to keep an eye on things spring wise as they age in service. Being able to check the spring force at installed length and at slide lock length is probably more useful than simple free length anyway. A web search will bring up dozens of different homemade rigs along with one or two commercially made.

Then again, these are working guns that I carry regularly. All I truly care about is will it work if/when I really need it to. If I didn't trust the thing, it'd go in the bin. Rather than getting all wrapped up in minutia I'll just stick a fresh spring in every year or so and not worry about it. Perhaps I'll never know how many years/rounds the spring will last and that's ok too.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

Keep in mind that one of the causes of double feeds can be a damaged/worn recoil spring.

When you start fiddling around with the recoil spring rating and slide velocity, it's not just the gun that's involved.

The shooter & ammunition influences are still present, and changing spring rates may change how everything comes together to influence the gun's operation.

I stopped being a member of the "heavier than factory" recoil spring club many years ago, and coincidentally, I've fewer "problems".

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer