Simple question: In searching for used 3rd Gens for my collection, I have come across some nasty tarnished stainless steel guns. What is the secret (if there is one) to bringing that tarnished, weathered stainless steel appearance back to a pristine, bright "as-new" look without doing it any harm or damage?

Two of my 3rd Gens look like they just came out of the box. One is filthy dirty but I'm confident it will clean up well. However, one that I am looking at right now is visibly weathered. That's the best way I can describe it. It is literally a different color now... visibly darker than its cleaner brothers.

Can it be saved without professional help? And, if so, how???

Depending on the depth of stain penetration, you may want to try using a portion of a green scotch bright pad and a little 3-in-1 oil, or regular gun oil. I have used this method to remove light scratches and dull appearing spots on my stainless pistols. I bought a large pad at an auto parts store & cut a few pieces about 2"x2".

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Inconsistently consistent

My smoke & water damaged 1006 looked like it was ready for the scrap pile when I got it. Repeated soakings in acetone and scrubbing with a very mild abrasive pad eventually restored its natural finish. Can't tell now it was ever mistreated.

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S&W Accumulator

If you're confident to strip it down to bare frame and slide, I would suggest a good glass bead-blasting. Your best source would be an arts & crafts shop, which may etch glass. Also, metal platers of some sort. The beads won't have rust, grease, or much other debris in-the-mix. Other sources to consider would be auto repair shops, or wheel shops, where the contaminants may be a concern.

Good ideas guys, thank you!

One of the weathered 3rd Gen guns in question has laser etched slide markings in lieu of rolled. Does that make any difference? I am a little concerned about taking anything abrasive to a laser-etched slide for fear of dulling or even removing the markings. Legit fear or am I worrying over nothing?

Unless you possess the tools and know how to do it yourself, I'd try to find a local gunsmith that could do a proper bead blast.

If you blast a stainless gun with media that has been used on carbon steel, it will create rust issues.

I like the way people offer up advice without any pics to base their assessment on. Looking "weathered" could constitute many things, the OP mentions that it looks considerably darker than the other pistol.

To me that sounds like it could also be nothing but a build up of burnt powder residue over time in the "pores" of the surface, and all that is need is a good soaking/cleaning.

Before making recommendations of having it bead blasted or taking abrasive pads to the surface, which can end making things looking much worse in the hands of the inexperienced... we should at least ask for a pic to see exactly what the situation is instead of guessing/assuming.

So how about it... can you post a pic so you can get some advice specific to your problem?

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

I hear you loud and clear... and believe me, I'd post a photo if I could. I haven't bought them yet and no pix are available online. Even then, I'm not sure you would see what I mean without a side-by-side comparison with a "clean" one.

I don't think the problem is burnt powder residue. The darker color is pretty uniform along the entire length of the slide. At first, I thought it was something from the holster the previous owner may have used... but even that would likely show a pattern.

No, I think this is just a general "weathering" or "tarnishing" over time... or possibly something caused by the cleaning agents or oil the previous owner had used. Again, just a guess.

These guns are made of wear resistant stainless steel specifically 410 alloy stainless. This stuff is known as a martensitic stainless steel. These alloys are unique among stainless steels as they can be hardened by heat treating and possess properties that make them very useful for firearms manufacture as well as other "high wear" applications. These steels are also slightly magnetic and are not quite as corrosion resistant as you might think. In other words, they will rust.

So, how do you make scuzzy old guns made from this stuff pretty again?......

Here's what I do...
First I detail strip the gun as in completely disassemble. Then I take all the stainless bits (slide, receiver, & barrel) to the kitchen sink and with some Dawn or Simple Green and and a old toothbrush, scrub away all the crud. Safety Note: strong degreasers will also strip all the natural oils out of your skin, nytril shop gloves will protect your hide. Pipe cleaners and wood toothpicks are useful for cleaning out small holes. Avoid using any wire brushes as steel wire will scratch stuff and brass/bronze wire will embed in and discolor the surface you're trying to clean.

Most of the time all that nastyness and staining is merely a buildup of old dried or burned lubricant + powder residue + carbon scale and will clean right up with a good degreasing agent and a little elbow grease. Often times you'll find after pulling your parts out of the sink and drying them off that everything looks fine now. Might as well slap the thing back together and head to the range

However, once you get all the crud cleaned up there may still be some rust or rust staining. A mild acid will clean this up. White vinegar (acetic acid) serves perfectly. I'll soak the rusty parts in a glass dish of white vinegar for as long as it takes to eat the rust away. Some will clean up in an hour and some may take longer. I'll pull the part every hour or so, wash it off and check it out. If there's still some rust it goes back in the pan. Rinse and repeat until you're satisfied with the result. And... be sure to use a glass container. You want to be sure your container is non-reactive so I use a cheap Anchor Hocking baking dish from Walmart.

Now all the rust has been cleaned up there may be some pitting, dings, or scratches to deal with.

If there is some deep pitting from heavy rust there may not be anything you can do about it. Severe pitting can be repaired but it requires micro welding with special equipment then re-machine or file the part back to original profile and re-finish by blasting.

Now a blast cabinet or a small handheld sandblaster is quite handy. You can literally erase small scratches and dings using the proper media.

About blasting media...
There are many different types of blasting media each with different properties for certain applications. In the firearms industry you'll typically see these two: Glass beads and Aluminum Oxide. And each of these can be had in a variety of grit or mesh.

The main difference is glass beads shatter on impact and wont remove any metal or change the surface profile whereas aluminum oxide abrasive media will.

Say for example you have a gun that's just scuzzy and has some light burnishing from holster wear. Glass beads would be the right media here to brighten up the finish, clean up & restore the appearance of the factory matt finish over any burnished areas while NOT change the profile or texture of the original factory blasted finish.

Conversely, say you have a gun that someone had mirror polished and you'd like to restore the factory matt finish. Glass beads here would only make it slightly non-shiny. You need media with more "tooth" to raise the surface profile or texture and roughen up the steel to match the original factory finish. This is where aluminum oxide shines. Aluminum oxide is actually synthetic rubies and second in mineral hardness next to diamonds. It will abrade away the steel to some degree depending on what grit is used. This property is exactly what makes that nice slightly rough uniform matt finish we get from the factory.

I have a small blast cabinet I got from Tractor Supply filled with 270+ glass beads I got from Brownells. This pretty much meets my needs for cleaning up old beaters so far. If I decide I need something more I'll probably set up second little cabinet filled with aluminum oxide media.

You may ask... Why not skip all that washing and scrubbing, dipping and soaking and go right to the blasting to clean up this scuzzy gun. Well, the reason you don't want to do that is you do not want all that goo contaminating your media. Anything you put in the blast cabinet should be clean free of goo and especially dry. Any gunk or moisture that gets in there will cause your media to clump and stop feeding through the nozzle. You'll wind up having the clean out the cabinet and replace the media which is not a job you want to do very often.

In any event when messing with any abrasive blasting equipment, make sure to protect yourself. A quality respirator and goggles are mandatory at a minimum. The dust generated inside a blast cabinet or in open air blasting is very hazardous and something you do not want to aspirate. Google "silicosis" if you're curious.

Information overload huh? Ya I tend to do that at times.
Anyway, that's how I get it done. I Hope you find some of this useful.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

Thanks very much for taking the time to produce such a detailed post. You not only answered my question about the 3rd Gen guns I'm potentially interested in, but you also answered some concerns about other guns in my collection as well.

Being a very cautious individual, I'll probably leave any necessary bead blasting to the pros despite the likely higher cost. I don't think the subject guns (the ones I'm currently looking at) are that far gone wear-wise. I just think they are stained/weathered/tarnished... whatever you want to call it, but not particularly worn. I do own one 3rd Gen with some obvious physical (holster) wear, but that's not my big concern for today.

One additional point I wanted to ask about is ultrasonic cleaning. Is that something I should be looking at? Either at the local gunsmith or possibly sneaking in and "borrowing" the wife's ultrasonic cleaner?

Thanks again!

I would first start with a field strip and thorough cleaning and then use some simichrome polish and a soft cotton rag (old t-shirt works well) I have had good experiences with simichrome in restoring the look on stainless 3rd generation guns and it should be easy to find. It is also not to expensive. Best.

You're quite welcome.

With a couple exceptions, the majority of my collection is comprised of old beaters/LE trade ins with no real collector value that I have I've rehabbed. The first time I tackled a major rehab/customization there was indeed a bit of apprehension on my part (What if I utterly ruin this thing? especially while posting progress on the forums) Well as it turned out, I took something with no collector value and turned it into something very nice & unique that I carry regularly. The point being, I quite understand your trepidation in tackling a blasting/refinishing project.

Most of the discoloration you see on a stainless steel 3rd gen is a combination of dried lubricant and firing residue. Some of the nastiest stubborn goop you find stuck to a gun is left by WD40. That stuff doesn't belong in the same universe with a fine firearm and will dry & degrade into nasty brownish varnish that's a pain to clean up. Even so, all that mess can be cleaned up simply with soap and a toothbrush.

Rust staining hasn't been much of an issue for me. I've cleaned up a few nasty old beaters and the only areas I've found any significant rust has been consistently under the sight dovetails, especially the backsight.

Leave it to the pros? Not me. I'm one of those guys who prefers to do it myself. Besides, considering all the things I've seen that the "pros" have jacked up or ruined, I'll handle it myself thanks.

If you're inclined, I'd suggest a tabletop blast cabinet and then cheapest nastiest beat up stainless pistol you can find and see what you can do. You'll never know what you can accomplish until you give it a try.

Regarding ultrasonic cleaners. Unless you're in charge of a large armory or cleaning a dozen guns/day, I wouldn't recommend them. First of all, ultrasonic systems suitable for cleaning firearms are prohibitively expensive. A quick look at Brownells list units from around $700 to nearly $10k. Then you have the hazmat disposal issue getting rid of the dirty solutions. The process strips every bit of lube out of the guns mechanism and leaves cleaning solvent in there. You need a moisture free compressed air source to blow the solution out of all the nooks & crannies and then re-lubricate the internal parts as required. Typically, large facilities will have a second machine or at least a second tank filled with lubricating solution to speed up processing large numbers of guns.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

The thing is that you have the luxury of not living behind enemy lines in heavily restricted Massachusetts where finding any desirable 3rd Gen at all is a near miracle. We cherish the ones we find even if they are sometimes far from perfect... and if one needs work to bring it back to its original glory, we don't mind spending the time or money to do it right. If that means DIY, that's great. But if it means a pro to get it right, that's fine too. I am fortunate to live in an area where there are some very good and reasonably priced gunsmiths right close by.

Ha!!! This tiny little home of ours is in total gridlock now from too many overly-large tools I've bought and used only 2 or 3 times. The wife would go ballistic if I proposed that we buy a sandblasting cabinet.

Oh, I would be talking an under $200.00, 3 to 6 liter machine... something like this one: Stainless Steel Digital Ultrasonic Cleaning Machine 6L - TheLAShop

I'll let you in on a secret: I hate cleaning guns and gun parts. Anything I can do to make the job easier is worth the price as far as I am concerned.

I wondered about using something like Simichrome or similar. I'd hope that a good cleaning alone would achieve what I am out to achieve... but if not, could something like Simichrome be the answer??? I'd love to test it out first on something I don't particularly care about... but nothing in my gun collection currently falls into that category.

It's really hard to say without seeing photos of this "weathered" piece, but from my experience, the simichrome or similar metal polish worked to restore the luster in the stainless guns I used them on.... It really gets into the metal and removes the dirt, powder residue and holster marks that can accumulate over time.... If you buy that "weathered" piece, just give it a try on a small spot first. It won't hurt and I am confident it will help. I don't know how it would work on rust as I have never used it for that. Best !!

Please be aware Simichrome is a "bright metal" polish (contains a mild abrasive) and will definitely "shine up" a piece of metal. I often used it to polish light scratches from my watch crystals.
My motorcycle customers liked to use it to polish their aluminum engine cases to a mirror finish. It will change the look of the matte bead-blast finish.
A good solvent like Stoddard followed by very hot/soapy water and scrubbing will get the surface clean enough to eat off of but will not remove scratches.
Very fine glass bead blast followed by scrupulous cleaning is the only way back to the factory finish but it will lighten laser etching.

John

Chances are I will buy it unless I happen to find one in better shape first. If I do, I'll take some before and after pix and post them, assuming the pix can actually pickup the differences in color and brightness.

No way I want to further lighten the (already light) laser etchings. That's one of my main reasons in posting my question. The less abrasive approach I can use, at least initially, the better.

Scratches aren't so much an issue as the weathered-looking color/brightness issue. I can live with a few light scratches. It's really the color and brightness of the stainless steel that I'd like to bring back as close to "as-new" as possible.

If I may, what model 3rd generation are you referring to? I typically use Flitz very lightly on the slide as a cleaning agent, not to shine beyond original. I've found it very effective for this purpose.

Discoloration on the alloy frame of what are often referred to as stainless guns is common and not easily reversed. I have used undiluted Simple Green and seen some success but avoid abrasive cleaners on the anodized portion.




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The one I am most concerned about is a member of the CS family. Beyond that, I better not say until I have decided whether or not to invest in them. In all cases, it is the darkened/discolored stainless steel that needs cleaning and brightening, not the aluminum alloy frames.

There is one terribly worn, "used & abused" 3rd Gen near me that I would love to buy but the asking price is outrageous even for MA. It would require a complete refinish of the alloy frame among other work to meet my standards. Very sad as it is a popular, in-demand model that I might not ever see again in restricted MA... but to buy a shipwreck at that price and then have to pay to have it fixed is beyond my means for certain.

TTSH - I agree with Pmosely's statement here. Use of simichrome or other polish like flitz is done sparingly. I don't polish every time I clean; only when there is an accumulation of something that did not come off in normal cleaning. I have probably only polished the slide half a dozen times in 20 years. The key is sparingly - a little goes a long way and thus I have not damaged the bead blast finish.

pmosley - Thanks for the tip about Simple Green. I have some, but have never used it on a stainless firearm. I will try it sometime. Best.

I nominate this thread for "sticky" status.

Great information, all of you, and BMCM, as usual you are a walking, talking, treasure trove of practical information. Thanks much for your willingness to share it!

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

I bet it will fit in your living room.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Ha!!!!! You have no idea how close to total gridlock we are already in.

And to make matters worse, I bought a complete deluxe sandblasting set-up a few years back (including compressors and supplies but absent a cabinet) and never even used it one time... so you can just imagine how a sandblasting cabinet suddenly appearing in the living room might lead to my premature (and probably justifiable) death by strangulation.

Great thing about ultrasonic cleaners is that they work on a LOT of parts...
If you get one, they don't take up much room, and can be used to
clean motorcycle carbs & other parts...Harbour Frieght has a nice one for less than 200.

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Marlin & Calico Specialist

Yep! Quite a bit less than $200, especially if you use one of their 20% or 25% off coupons (which everyone should do!). Just not sure if the larger one (2.5 liter) would be big enough for all the things I might eventually want to do with it. A 3 liter or 6 liter unit would be better, albeit at a somewhat higher price than HF's bargain units.

I agree that the proper PPE needs to be worn for any blasting operation; however silicosis is cause by sand (crystalline silica) blasting, not glass beads.

CDC - NIOSH Publications and Products - Preventing Silicosis and Deaths From Sandblasting (92-102)

I would still heed the warning in the "Use of Alternative Abrasives" section and use the appropriate PPE; remember it's not just the media dust you are protecting yourself from, it is also the substrate dust.

I have used a soft toothbrush with a paste of Bar Keepers's Friend...restores the matte finish while removing minor scratches, too. Not for blued guns, just stainless...use a small circular pattern, then when done, wash with very hot water and apply a spray-lube to every surface.

For deep scratches, try 400-600 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a flexible block first.

I'd just load it and shoot it.

I was at a LGS just the other evening and saw a 4566 (almost impossible to find for sale in Kali) in the case. My heart went pitta patta, until I realized it had been bead blasted to a pulp. It was very expensive but the writing on the slide was distorted and hard to read. FAIL.
Richard

Might be best if I actually buy it first!

Seriously, shooting it isn't the issue. What it's worth in that condition is the issue. The asking price is not cheap by recent comparative sales... not in its current cosmetic condition. Cleaned up, if possible, it might be worth something closer to the asking price.

It's actually a bit more complicated than that, but I don't want to take this thread off topic. Odds are that I am going to buy it and hope it cleans up nice enough to justify the price.

Finally bought the dirty little beast. Probably paid too much for it and am already into a little buyer's remorse over it. I hope it passes 'cause I hate that feeling that I overpaid when money is so damn tight and hard to come by these days. But in highly-restricted Massachusetts, sometimes it is better to jump fast or you risk losing out altogether. Having already lost three other used 3rd Gens to my lack of a quick enough response (and may have lost a fourth one as well), I did what I thought I had to do.

Anyway, the seller convinced me that it would clean up a bit... and, indeed, he did a fair job of cleaning it up for me right there in the shop. That said, I still took it straight to my favorite gunsmith for a quick evaluation. It is still pretty nasty to my eyes compared to my other used 3rd Gens. Turns out that the cost for him to do anything meaningful with it is going to be very hard to justify.

Bottom line is that he wants to lightly bead blast the whole dang gun. I reminded him that the markings are lasered and the frame is alloy but he says he can do it light enough that those things won't matter. He makes a good point that if he can get a lot of the scratches and surface flaws out, the color itself won't matter so much. He may be right.

For now, I'll see what I can do with some of the more modest and less costly ideas posted above. Right now, I'm not feeling so good about this purchase. Perhaps it's time to slow down a bit and re-evaluate my whole 3rd Gen collecting strategy.

TTSH.... like us in CA with our restrictive handguns laws, sometime you just have to go with the cards dealt to you at the time.

I've been in your situation many a times... and I can tell you in every circumstance, time has shown me that I did the right thing by "over paying" at the time because either I haven't seen another one like what I bought come up for sale, or the prices have gone up where it's now underpriced.

Also... when you are an accumulator (like me), you're sure to buy other S&W's in the future, and with multiple purchases over time comes the concept of dollar cost average. I've harped on this in many threads about buyers remorse for "over paying", and I continue to do so as it's something that helps take away the sting.

Basically, when you take the total number of guns you have and divide that number into the total cost, the resulting number will be your average cost per gun. Typically with the highs and lows paid, they usually offset each other to where the average cost per gun in your "collection" is lower than the highest price paid for any one gun.

When you look at it that way... your really don't overpay, unless you always pay a higher price on all purchases than what you shouldn't be doing, and that would warrant a "reality check".

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

I would avoid bead blasting the anodized aluminum frame, and the laser etched steel slide if the darkness of the markings are important to you. However, I have started to look into soda blasting, and this may be a gentle enough process to use on aluminum and over laser markings. Also, from what I've read a complete disassembly of the firearm is not required because the soda is water soluble.

I have not performed soda blasting, but there are a lot of threads out there of it being used to clean assembled aluminum carburators, and that it is gentle enough not to remove hard anodized coatings.

I'm not sure if it will make the pistol look new again like bead blasting, but it should clean it up.

For all I know, that's what he was proposing, although he did say that the gun would have to be completely disassembled... something I really didn't want or wish to pay for.

Regardless, I don't think I want to go down that "light blasting" path, at least not right away. I feel it's too risky without seeing some strong representative results ahead of time. Plus, I'd feel like I were throwing good money after bad at this point. I'm not ready to do that just yet.

In this highly restricted legal environment with more older & collectible guns leaving the state for free states every day and almost none coming in, we non-C&R MA collectors are really hurting. Bottom line is that you can't afford not to consider every possibility as long as the condition is not beyond reasonable restoration and repair. But it's not always a healthy thing. Spending more than "LNIB" for a beater plus parts & repairs is no way to collect. That's where I think my focus has to change. And I'm probably far enough along now that I think I can afford to start being a little more selective.

It's true that I've had my (financial) winners and my losers. I got spoiled by a couple of outstanding deals (relatively speaking - outstanding for MA) on 3rd Gens. That sort of set a benchmark for me. But then I lost out on some others thinking their better condition did not justify their higher asking prices. Man, was I wrong. Condition is everything! I only started to realize that in a big way when I had to start pricing out parts, restoration work and repairs.

But even then, I still tried to fool myself and talk myself into whatever I could find as being a "good deal." Sometimes, it takes me a while to figure things out and now I think I finally get it. Can't promise that I won't regress... but I'm certainly going to try a lot harder to minimize future mistakes.